Echo CS 400F vs Stihl MS 251 C-BE

[BrandonC5]

Ok folks, need some advice on a saw from the pros. I am a homeowner looking for a decent saw that's going to last me 20+ years. Mostly going to be used for cutting downed trees by storms (maybe 1 or two a year max) but may have to fell an occasional tree and limbing. I don't need to cut firewood with it so no issues there. I have narrowed it down to either the Echo CS 400F or the Stihl MS 251 C-BE. Each saw has it advantages and disadvantages.

Echo CS 400F: Pros- easy to start with an i30 starter, has the quick chain tensioner, automatic chain/bar oil, easy access air filter, a 5 year warranty and is priced at $320. Cons- not sure of the actual quality of the engine vs Stihl, only has 40CC engine.

Stihl MS 251 C-BE: Pros- also has easy to start feature, has quick chain tensioner, automatic chain/bar oil, 45CC engine. Cons- Priced at $370, only has 1 year warranty (2 if you buy their 6 pack oil), no easy access air filter.

Right now I'm thinking the Echo because I own an Echo SRM 225 trimmer and a Echo PN-250LN blower that I have had 0 issues with and I am very happy with them. What do you guys say?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Well, you asked for a pro's advice. Find a good clean 026 or 260 for $150 - $200 , have your local Still dealer run through it, and never look back.

 

[7sleeper]

Actually in your situation the best option from a price point wise is the Dolmar 421. Built like a pro saw made for the ambitious homeowner like you. Easy start, magnesium housing 42cc with 3HP enough for about all the jobs you describe. Personally I would leave out the "quick chain tensioner" as it is really not needed and only adds to the cost of the saw. If you can't use a scrench then to be honest I am unsure if you should be using a chainsaw. Cost is 330$ with free shipping and a free case from equipatron.com. That is the only saw I would want to own in your situation. If you read how pros like KenJax Tree speaks about it you will be convinced!

If you want to see how easy it is to start, just watch Brads daughter at 10 years of age demonstrate it to you.



But the saws you mentioned are all good quality and will do what you expect of them for many many years to come. Just do yourself a favor and either buy premix(for a lot of money) or empty your saws fuel tank at the end of the cutting and let the saw idle till empty. With this technique you and your saw will stay happy for a long time.

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[CTYank]

First, you'd get more response in the Chainsaw forum.
Second, the Dolmar 421 will positively smoke a Stihl 251, and doesn't have its bar studs threaded into plastic. Much better engineering. Had the chance to try a 421 for a while, and it's as good as they say it is. Their power figures are much more honest.
Most any current chainsaw will need a serious carb adjustment, if only for engine survival.

 

[Hoowasat]

My vote is for the Stihl, but not the MS251 with the no-tools bar adjuster. Get the MS250 in case you ever decide to change bars. My MS250 is 10 years old now, and all I've ever done to it is change the spark plug, fuel filter, and replace the pull cord (a DIY repair).

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Plus 2 on the auto tensioner. I've yet to see one hold worth a damn

 

[BrandonC5]

Thanks for the feedback guys! Just got a few questions. Is the Dolmar 421 at least assembled in the USA? One of the big reasons why I liked the Echo and Stihl is that they are assembled in the USA and I like the idea of supporting American Jobs (I'm a former US Marine). I'm already well aware that no tool now a day's is actually made in the USA so assembled in the USA is about as good as it gets in that respect. I'm also not worried about any maintenance on the saw as I used to be an ASE Master automotive Technician and I know what happens if you don't do your preventative maintenance to anything that has an engine, motor or moving parts in it.
Are the quick chain tensioners really that bad? I just liked the idea of being able to adjust the chain tension on the fly without having to keep a scrench in my pocket while cutting. But if they compromise the integrity and life span of the saw, I guess keeping a scrench in my pocket wouldn't kill me.

 

[7sleeper]

Sorry bad news. Dolmar is 100% Gerpan or is it Japmany....

Sorry couldn't resist. Well actually Dolmar used to be a german company, but they couldn't survive on their own so they merged with Makita. Makita wanted an outdoor line and it was the perfect match! All saws made by them are 100% made in germany and only the smallest line (ps32 /35) is assembeld in far east, as far as I know. The rest is all assembeld in Hamburg/Germany. They tried a bigger assembling plan but were unhappy with the delivered results so back to germany again.

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[TheJollyLogger]

Yes, the tensioner are that bad.Plastic gears vs metal threads

 

[sgreanbeans]

(I'm a former US Marine).

Welcome, there are many of us here.

Stick with Stihl, get a 361 with a 20" bar. Little pricey compared to the others. But it will last a long time and you will never want for power, if ya do, call someone who has the big guns.

I have a Echo, its our "go to" when we have to abuse a saw by cutting crap materiel. If I jack it up, not to worried. Runs good, but nothing compared to the Stihl's

 

[7sleeper]

Welcome,....
I have a Echo, its our "go to" when we have to abuse a saw by cutting crap materiel. If I jack it up, not to worried. Runs good, but nothing compared to the Stihl's

Abuse a saw and it keeps on running!? Actually this really sounds more like praise for the echo brand.

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[Grey]

MS251 easy start is pretty nice. Got it for my wife and she has zero problems. Last time I used it it started in 2 pulls, one full choke and one high idle. Can't speak to durability as I've only had it a couple months

 

[BrandonC5]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I went over to my dealer (Weingartz in Utica, Michigan) and I decided on an Echo CS400. I looked at the Stihl's and they are pretty nice but Echo was priced a bit better and I liked the features (like the no-tools air filter access) of the Echo a bit better than the Stihl's. My dealer also gave me some discounts this Memorial day weekend since I am a Marine Corps vet. I got half off on the Echo carrying case and he gave me a $25 credit to turn in the Echo bar and chain because I ordered the Oregon Power Sharp kit in the 18" bar for the saw (+ 1 extra chain and sharpening stone). He also sold me a tune up kit (air filter, fuel filter, oil chain filter and spark plug) and quart of chain oil at cost + 10% which saved me about $5.
I know you pro's are probably yelling something along the lines of "The Oregon Power Sharp Kit! That thing is a piece of $hi&! Why on god's green earth would you spend money on that!". Well I'm just a home owner and I don't burn firewood so this chainsaw will only be used once or twice a year max so I really don't need to do a professional sharpening to the chain every year nor do I want to sit there for an hour with a file sharpening every single edge of the tooth and girding down the rakers. The power sharp kit should keep my chain sharp enough for at least 10 years for the amount I'll be using the saw.

 

[7sleeper]

Those who use the power sharp like it a lot! Any you are the prime example user! To be honest though I would stook up a little on chains and stones. Don't know how long they will keep it on the market. There is a very good thread on the system here and from what I have understood is that you should always put the system with the stone on the same way. The stone doesn't get used up so fast.

Good saw and great dealer.

Good luck!

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[BrandonC5]

Thanks for everyone's help. I picked up my saw (Echo CS400) yesterday and I am pretty happy with it. Everything fits in the Echo carrying case so I don't have to worry about remembering where I put the bar oil or extra chain/spark plug/air filter. The only issue I have with it (being that I used to be an automotive technician) is I can tell that this saw is begging to breath. I'm going to wait till the warranty is up but then I will definitely be doing the muffler mod to this saw and retuning the carb. I can tell the muffler is really holding the true power of this saw back.

 

[Ash_403]

Be sure to pull the carb jet limiter caps ASAP. (I used a drywall screw to pull the caps, then trimmed the tabs off with an exacto knife.) Then tune. You will need to anyway once you open up that muffler.

 

[BrandonC5]

Yeah I can tell she is running a bit lean and it hesitates from time to time when I snap the throttle open. Do you partially thread a drywall screw into the caps and then pull them out? Or would it be possible to get a pair of fine needle nose pliers down in there to grab them and yank them? Or I guess you could always just pull the carb itself lol. Is there a video or anything that shows a good way to pull the caps and how to properly tune the carb? Sorry for all the questions lol.

 

[7sleeper]

If they are the little red caps, turn them all the way to the left and then turn in the screw(I screw them in under "hand power" without a screwdriver) and then take the screw end in a pair of plyers and with a nice yank, out they come. I remove the L cap first.

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