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Echo Twin CST-610EVL Information Sharing Thread!

bulletpruf

bulletpruf

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Fellas -

These are pretty cool saws, one of the very few twin cylinder models made, and seem to have a fair amount of interest so I thought I would start a thread to consolidate a lot of the information that's out there.

Starting with Mike Acres, here are the spec's - http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...6af40002b8f7/089240ecb997a24888256d0d001db8d4

A John Deere 66SV (basically a yellow 610 EVL) thread by Brad Snelling: https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/john-deere-66sv-echo-610-twin-cylinder.264480/

And here's a MONSTER 50 page thread from MasterMind - https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/mastermind-meets-the-echo-cst-610evl.214660/

Some of the highlights -

-Produced in 1986 (maybe only 2 years of production?), and not a lot out there. I think the serial numbers on the four that I have are all under 10,000.

-At 61cc's (horizontally opposed cylinders) and 15 lbs PHO (powerhead only), it's not a flyweight. Most folks are not very impressed with the power to weight ratio.

-Pistons are the same for front and back cylinders, but the jugs are different. A quote from @blsnelling "The two cylinders are very different. The spark plug comes nearly straight out of the center on the rear. On the front, it comes out at nearly a right angle. Because of this, the combustion chambers are very different. As I expected, the compression on the rear cylinder is significantly higher, because of the pocket in the combustion chamber required to let it come out at such an angle."

-The ignition for these is the achilles heel. They have one CDI module (part 15060116131 or 15660116130) and these are no longer available from Echo. The saws have two coils (part 15662616130). Also no longer available, but I think these are easier to find than the CDI modules. FYI - I spoke with someone who manufactures RC engine ignitions for twins (https://www.ch-ignitions.com), he said using one of his ignitions could possibly work, but you would need a small battery (size of 4 AA batteries) to power the ignition. I'm betting that his company could manufacture a replacement CDI module if they wanted to; I asked him if he would be interested.

-Another achilles heel is the bottom plate on the rear handle (part 35112316131). It's thin and often cracked. The bracket that attaches the wrap handle to the saw (part 35161416131) is another problematic piece -- often broken. The saw in the below picture is mine, serial number 7558; it has both broken.

DSCN2052.JPG

And this is serial number 8096 (also mine). Has both intact.

IMG_1265.JPG

-Prices for these are all over the map. Clean used ones bring up to $1,000 on eBay, perhaps because model airplane folks like to harvest the engines to use for larger planes. Ones that don't run can still bring $100 or more.

If you have info, pictures, comments, etc, please post!

Scott
 
Conquistador3

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I haven't seen one of these in the flesh in... a decade? May be more? When new in the 80's they cost a ridiculous amount of money, more than a Stihl 076 and a Husqvarna 288XP if I remember correctly, but Echo has always been a very expensive brand here.
That alone would explain its rarity: less the saw at a higher price.

Regarding the ignition. Zenoah still manufactures a boxer twin RC engine (G800BPU) which uses an ignition system very similar to the CST610. I actually think the two units are both manufactured by Oppama, which is an Echo/Yamabiko subsidiary manufacturing ignition systems.
Zenoah spare parts are both really expensive and, after the Husky takeover, hard to obtain, but I wonder if somebody has tried using the G800BPU igntion in the CST610... I think the Zenoah engine is basically two chainsaw top ends (maybe G3800?) mated to a common crankshaft and the technology is basically power equipment grade.
A different approach would be to try and have at least the CDI module repaired. There's a Dutch firm specializing repairing motorcycle CDI's and ECU's: it's not cheap but surely cheaper than having a small run of custom built CDI's manufactured. The coils... those are a different matter entirely.
 
bulletpruf

bulletpruf

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I haven't seen one of these in the flesh in... a decade? May be more? When new in the 80's they cost a ridiculous amount of money, more than a Stihl 076 and a Husqvarna 288XP if I remember correctly, but Echo has always been a very expensive brand here.
That alone would explain its rarity: less the saw at a higher price.

Regarding the ignition. Zenoah still manufactures a boxer twin RC engine (G800BPU) which uses an ignition system very similar to the CST610. I actually think the two units are both manufactured by Oppama, which is an Echo/Yamabiko subsidiary manufacturing ignition systems.
Zenoah spare parts are both really expensive and, after the Husky takeover, hard to obtain, but I wonder if somebody has tried using the G800BPU igntion in the CST610... I think the Zenoah engine is basically two chainsaw top ends (maybe G3800?) mated to a common crankshaft and the technology is basically power equipment grade.
A different approach would be to try and have at least the CDI module repaired. There's a Dutch firm specializing repairing motorcycle CDI's and ECU's: it's not cheap but surely cheaper than having a small run of custom built CDI's manufactured. The coils... those are a different matter entirely.
C3 -

You may be on to something on the Zenoah G800BPU. It's an 80 cc twin, horizontally opposed two stroke engine, 1,800 rpm - 10,000 rpm operating range, with a CDI type ignition with a flywheel magneto. Details and pictures here - http://www.zenoah.co.jp/int/products/hobby-engines/g800bpu/ and here's the IPL - http://www.zenoah.co.jp/ddoc/ZENO/ZENO2013_AAaa/ZENO2013_AAaa_G800BPU,G800BPU-1_(301).pdf

Bottom line -- it looks like the G800BPU has a very similar ignition to the Echo twin, including the CDI unit and twin coils. The problem with the RC engine ignition made by C & H that's mentioned in my earlier post is that it uses a battery instead of a flywheel magneto.

Here's a pic of the Zenoah CDI (they call it a source coil - part number is 2629-71210) -

s-l1600.jpg
And here's the Echo CDI part number 15060116131

Echo-Cst-610Evl-Twin-Cylinder-Chainsaw-Cdi-Ignition-Coil.jpg

They appear to be similar, but hard to tell how close they are without comparing the two as they are sitting next to each other. Looks like the price is about $100 for the Zenoah unit; not cheap, but if it's a reasonably easy retrofit, we may have something...

Scott
 
Beetlejuice

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Fellas -

These are pretty cool saws, one of the very few twin cylinder models made, and seem to have a fair amount of interest so I thought I would start a thread to consolidate a lot of the information that's out there.

Starting with Mike Acres, here are the spec's - http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...6af40002b8f7/089240ecb997a24888256d0d001db8d4

A John Deere 66SV (basically a yellow 610 EVL) thread by Brad Snelling: https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/john-deere-66sv-echo-610-twin-cylinder.264480/

And here's a MONSTER 50 page thread from MasterMind - https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/mastermind-meets-the-echo-cst-610evl.214660/

Some of the highlights -

-Produced in 1986 (maybe only 2 years of production?), and not a lot out there. I think the serial numbers on the four that I have are all under 10,000.

-At 61cc's (horizontally opposed cylinders) and 15 lbs PHO (powerhead only), it's not a flyweight. Most folks are not very impressed with the power to weight ratio.

-Pistons are the same for front and back cylinders, but the jugs are different. A quote from @blsnelling "The two cylinders are very different. The spark plug comes nearly straight out of the center on the rear. On the front, it comes out at nearly a right angle. Because of this, the combustion chambers are very different. As I expected, the compression on the rear cylinder is significantly higher, because of the pocket in the combustion chamber required to let it come out at such an angle."

-The ignition for these is the achilles heel. They have one CDI module (part 15060116131 or 15660116130) and these are no longer available from Echo. The saws have two coils (part 15662616130). Also no longer available, but I think these are easier to find than the CDI modules. FYI - I spoke with someone who manufactures RC engine ignitions for twins (https://www.ch-ignitions.com), he said using one of his ignitions could possibly work, but you would need a small battery (size of 4 AA batteries) to power the ignition. I'm betting that his company could manufacture a replacement CDI module if they wanted to; I asked him if he would be interested.

-Another achilles heel is the bottom plate on the rear handle (part 35112316131). It's thin and often cracked. The bracket that attaches the wrap handle to the saw (part 35161416131) is another problematic piece -- often broken. The saw in the below picture is mine, serial number 7558; it has both broken.

View attachment 636780

And this is serial number 8096 (also mine). Has both intact.

View attachment 636781

-Prices for these are all over the map. Clean used ones bring up to $1,000 on eBay, perhaps because model airplane folks like to harvest the engines to use for larger planes. Ones that don't run can still bring $100 or more.

If you have info, pictures, comments, etc, please post!

Scott
Scott.. Might take a look C. L. Spokane Washington. Was, and I think still iis a twin for about 6... That's where I live, so if anything comes up, I'm proud to help.. I have an ECHO 1001.. Takes two.ta getter up on da bench..P. M.me for info. Cheers, K
 
Beetlejuice

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Scott.. Might take a look C. L. Spokane Washington. Was, and I think still iis a twin for about 6... That's where I live, so if anything comes up, I'm proud to help.. I have an ECHO 1001.. Takes two.ta getter up on da bench..P. M.me for info. Cheers, K
Update. Still on C. L. $665.00 that's what I know
 
bulletpruf

bulletpruf

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Scott.. Might take a look C. L. Spokane Washington. Was, and I think still iis a twin for about 6... That's where I live, so if anything comes up, I'm proud to help.. I have an ECHO 1001.. Takes two.ta getter up on da bench..P. M.me for info. Cheers, K
Thanks, B-juice. Found the ad -- https://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/d/echo-cst610-twin-cylinder/6483924435.html -- looks like a nice saw, but the asking price is $665. He doesn't mention if it runs or not. Sounds a bit steep (at least for me) even if it is a runner. But thanks anyway.

Hi Scott, good morning. Thanks this sounds impressive! I have to head out for job now, will see and read more when I am back.
Chy
Hey Chy - I was hoping you would find this thread! Look forward to any comments you might have.
Scott
 
Stihl #1

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Hi Scott, Interesting that these saws made it to Italy.
I have the John Deere version with the broken handle bracket and rear handle just as you said.
Echo Twin.jpg
Runs great. I had it at work and we had a young German engineer visiting so I let him cut with it and he was amazed at how smooth a saw older than him could cut.
I had a gent in a training seminar from Washington state who told me they made a backpack air compressor from this engine, with one cylinder making the air, and it was used for operating pneumatic loppers for pruning in orchards. He has a customer still using one regularly. He sent me an IPL but I can't find it, but I did get this pic from a friend who works at Echo in Lake Zurich:
rec 600 1.jpg
My friend at Echo showed me a video of his snow bike, which uses this motor to drive a small track on what is a light bike looking frame with a ski to steer the front. Pretty cool.
I had heard but don't know if it is true that Echo had plans to make 3 saws, 60, 80, and 100 cc displacement but since the 60 cc version I guess didn't take off as hoped the bigger models never were developed.
 
bulletpruf

bulletpruf

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Hi Scott, Interesting that these saws made it to Italy.
I have the John Deere version with the broken handle bracket and rear handle just as you said.

Runs great. I had it at work and we had a young German engineer visiting so I let him cut with it and he was amazed at how smooth a saw older than him could cut.
I had a gent in a training seminar from Washington state who told me they made a backpack air compressor from this engine, with one cylinder making the air, and it was used for operating pneumatic loppers for pruning in orchards. He has a customer still using one regularly. He sent me an IPL but I can't find it, but I did get this pic from a friend who works at Echo in Lake Zurich:

My friend at Echo showed me a video of his snow bike, which uses this motor to drive a small track on what is a light bike looking frame with a ski to steer the front. Pretty cool.
I had heard but don't know if it is true that Echo had plans to make 3 saws, 60, 80, and 100 cc displacement but since the 60 cc version I guess didn't take off as hoped the bigger models never were developed.
Well, they made it to Italy, but I'm trying to remember how many I actually bought in Europe. Probably none. I know I got a nice one from a member here, and I think I got two more complete ones from members, but I'm not sure where the 4th one came from.

The snow bike sounds cool! Would love to see pics or video of that one.

And the air compressor is impressive, too.

BTW - I'm living in Norfolk, VA (Joint Forces Staff College) for a few more weeks before heading back to Italy. Just down the road from you. Got any saws to sell??? That yellow twin sure looks purty...

Thanks,

Scott
 
chy_farm

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At designing my double pipe, I wanted to rev her nearly 13,500rpm, so shot an inquiry to Echo Tokyo if she runs at that speed. Their answer was No, her designed max speed was 11500 to 11000rpm, not very high. My presumption to the reason for this 'low speed' is that for one thing they used a single reed plate made of so called 'Bakelite'. This reed valve has much thickness than a contemporary carbon reed valves, so if we replace this with a modified one we may as well enjoy better speed for her.
 
blsnelling

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At designing my double pipe, I wanted to rev her nearly 13,500rpm, so shot an inquiry to Echo Tokyo if she runs at that speed. Their answer was No, her designed max speed was 11500 to 11000rpm, not very high. My presumption to the reason for this 'low speed' is that for one thing they used a single reed plate made of so called 'Bakelite'. This reed valve has much thickness than a contemporary carbon reed valves, so if we replace this with a modified one we may as well enjoy better speed for her.
IIRC, the crank in these is not very robust. You might want to think twice before cranking one up too high.
 
Cycledude

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I am also a 610 owner, bought it used about 4 years ago from the original owner, it seems to run fine but I’ve only cut about a dozen blocks just to see how it ran, in my opinion it’s in very nice condition , better than any of the other saw pictures so far in thread.
 
chy_farm

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I am also a 610 owner, bought it used about 4 years ago from the original owner, it seems to run fine but I’ve only cut about a dozen blocks just to see how it ran, in my opinion it’s in very nice condition , better than any of the other saw pictures so far in thread.
Any pics?
 
cedarshark

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I owned this one for a while when I gained interest in Echo. Primarily as a shelf queen but was very impressed with how smooth it idled. The only saw I ever owned that would not "walk off" while idling on a hard surface. The saw was in good shape, ran well and a guy made me an offer that was impossible to pass up.

IMG_0874.JPG IMG_0877.JPG IMG_0875.JPG
 
FLchainsawJoe

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I owned this one for a while when I gained interest in Echo. Primarily as a shelf queen but was very impressed with how smooth it idled. The only saw I ever owned that would not "walk off" while idling on a hard surface. The saw was in good shape, ran well and a guy made me an offer that was impossible to pass up.

View attachment 637144 View attachment 637147 View attachment 637150
I was just going to ask you if you would take offers? Maybe “that guy” will read this. :reading:
 
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