&^%$#@! Employees

[Jumper]

Ekka's comment about employees foibles being a global phenom caused me to create this thread.

My two cents....

1. You have to motivate employees, particularly younger ones-yelling and screaming on a daily basis is not going to solve a thing. In fact they will walk. There is a time and place for raising ones voice or temper on occcasion, usually when someone is about to get hurt. OK fine if your style is to yell scream and generally berate people, but don't be surprised when people do not want to work with you especially at a lower wage scale. Read an interesting article this morning in the Globe and Mail that said bad bosses were the chief demotivator for most workers, money was a distant second and work hours third.

2. $$$$$$> Everyone's favorite topic. The reliable $10 per hour employee is a rare, if not almost extinct, bird. And if you do find one, he/she is looking for another job that will pay $13 hour with less physical discomfort the whole time he is working for you. Most people do not want to work for that coin in the dirt, heat dust whatever. $15 might do it, but a lot of people do not or can not afford that level of pay, so they get stuck with the chaff of society, the jailbirds, drunks, and druggies who will take $10 to get some cash, and do not give a sh*t what they have to do to get it. And in the process, don't give a sh*t about you, your company, your customers, your equipment etc etc.

3. If the boss is unreliable (ie never ready for work on time, does not pay on time, does not maintain equipment, uses unsafe procedures or equipment(or insists employees use same)) the whole attitude rubs off on the employees. On the other hand if you appear to give a sh*t about your company, show pride in your work, this too rubs off on the employees. I worked for a hack once that like McPeak, spiked everything. Think I respected him??? Coupled with anger management problems (see 1 above) he could not hold onto employees, though in his credit, his equipment was number one and he did pay about $2 hr more than most in the area at the time.

IMHO Number 2 is the chief reason the tree service industry gets stuck with the employees they do. There are far easier ways to earn $10 hr, and jobs paying more are widely available, if not locally, in other parts of the country.

 

[Treeinnovator]

4. Hiring someone between the age of 20 and 29 will have different results. 20 somethings are statistically lazy due to their over-exposure to video games throughout their youth. They also tend to have an inflated sense of self worth do to the dot.com era where easy money was made just for knowing how to create websites. don't even get me started about their spoiledness and coddling by their rich baby boomer parents. if you want an employee who will work hard for a fair price, hire teenagers or post-30 yr olds.

5. good $10 employees are available. Trick is you have to find them before they ever make that amount. for example; grocery store stockboys are a great source. they are used to heavily lifting all day long for $7/hr. offer them $10/hr and they'll think they hit the lottery and work 12 hour days and love it.

 

[buff]

Do not forget, they want you to buy them shoes and clothes too.

 

[Jumper]

o will work hard for a fair price, hire teenagers or post-30 yr olds.

5. good $10 employees are available.

They are, problem is a $10 an hour employee that remains there is either mentally/phsically/emotionally challanged and working at the peak of his capabilities (this includes the druggies and drunks) or not in the least bit ambitious, which is hardly the kind of employee most companies want. You are not going to hold onto anyone with drive unless you pay them more.

 

[Jumper]

4. Hiring someone between the age of 20 and 29 will have different results. 20 somethings are statistically lazy due to their over-exposure to video games throughout their youth. They also tend to have an inflated sense of self worth do to the dot.com era where easy money was made just for knowing how to create websites. don't even get me started about their spoiledness and coddling by their rich baby boomer parents. if you want an employee who will work hard for a fair price, hire teenagers or post-30 yr olds.

Tend to agree somewhat here.......I had a phone interview with a lady from West Virginia yesterday, and she mentioned in passing that someone else being considered for the job really wanted to know if it was necessary to get outside and dirty ????? I replied I was unlikely to melt and I have experienced dirty places to work in my life. This comment was really puzzling because while the yard where much of the stock is kept (railroad bed maintenance like items for CN exclusively), it really was not that bad. I supposed the person wanted a nice clean office job, where one did not get wet, dirty, cold or hot on occasion.

 

[Treeinnovator]

They are, problem is a $10 an hour employee that remains there is either mentally/phsically/emotionally challanged and working at the peak of his capabilities (this includes the druggies and drunks) or not in the least bit ambitious, which is hardly the kind of employee most companies want. You are not going to hold onto anyone with drive unless you pay them more.

anyone with ambition and common sense will start their own tree service the first chance they get. sometimes it's better to have a not so great employee for that reason.

 

[Dan R Porter]

All wrong

Sorry to inform all of you. But I started my Job about 2 years ago at $10 an hour and I consider myself the most dedicated employee there. In those two years I have worked my hardest and learned as much as I could, I even got ISA certified last year. If you want good help you have to offer EDUCATION. Thats the only benefit I ask about when interviewing, If I don't go to seminars or get help with schooling, I don't take the job.

Dan

 

[Jumper]

anyone with ambition and common sense will start their own tree service the first chance they get. sometimes it's better to have a not so great employee for that reason.

One that destroys your equipment and/or client base???? Or who is not smart enough to operate in a safe manner? Or looks like he was just released from the local slammer or worse?

 

[Jumper]

Sorry to inform all of you. But I started my Job about 2 years ago at $10 an hour and I consider myself the most dedicated employee there. In those two years I have worked my hardest and learned as much as I could, I even got ISA certified last year. If you want good help you have to offer EDUCATION. Thats the only benefit I ask about when interviewing, If I don't go to seminars or get help with schooling, I don't take the job.

Dan

I bet you are not earning $10 an hour now. I did not say all $10 hr employees were like that, and you are one of the "rare birds" with ambition. It is all about upward mobility.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Sorry to inform all of you. But I started my Job about 2 years ago at $10 an hour and I consider myself the most dedicated employee there. In those two years I have worked my hardest and learned as much as I could, I even got ISA certified last year. If you want good help you have to offer EDUCATION. Thats the only benefit I ask about when interviewing, If I don't go to seminars or get help with schooling, I don't take the job.

Dan

One or two, or even three or four, exceptions, do not prove anybody wrong. The discussion is about general trends. I suspect everybody who posted above is well aware that there are exceptions.


If you want to be upwardly mobile, learn to think more carefully.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

There are far easier ways to earn $10 hr, and jobs paying more are widely available, if not locally, in other parts of the country.

My company pays that for DRIVERS. (No CDL.) All they have to do is show up, and follow a map, with an engineer there to straigten them out when they go wrong.

And for that money, we get the dregs. Yes, there is an occasional college student or whatever who is way over qualified, and is there because the job happens to suit them temporarily, but they are the EXCEPTION.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

gen X, not what you think

4. Hiring someone between the age of 20 and 29 will have different results. 20 somethings are statistically lazy due to their over-exposure to video games throughout their youth. They also tend to have an inflated sense of self worth do to the dot.com era where easy money was made just for knowing how to create websites. don't even get me started about their spoiledness and coddling by their rich baby boomer parents. if you want an employee who will work hard for a fair price, hire teenagers or post-30 yr olds.

5. good $10 employees are available. Trick is you have to find them before they ever make that amount. for example; grocery store stockboys are a great source. they are used to heavily lifting all day long for $7/hr. offer them $10/hr and they'll think they hit the lottery and work 12 hour days and love it.

I'm calling b@llsh*t on this one. I've heard all this crap about "gen X" my whole working life. I am proud to be a member of this "lost" generation, but we are completely misundertstood. Our teen years were spent while this country was in an economic recession, most of us had both parents working (if our parents were even together) I had my first job at 14 and a paper route, and went to school, and played sports.
The problem is that no one with a head on their shoulders will work for 10$ an hr., especially if they see the biz owner making ten times that. You're damn right if they have any ambition they will try to go out on their own, I did. Didn't you??
I agree that the education thing is a huge factor. I worked for a company that would send us to seminars and the trade shows and all that fun stuff, when I was hired I was promised schooling for college credit, the carrot kept getting bigger and the stick longer untill I had enough and quit to do my own thing and go back to school.
The thing about gen X is that we can smell hypocracy a mile a way...............pay attention, we've grown up watching you

 

[l2edneck]

Couldnt Have Said It Better Myself!!!

I'm calling b@llsh*t on this one. I've heard all this crap about "gen X" my whole working life. I am proud to be a member of this "lost" generation, but we are completely misundertstood. Our teen years were spent while this country was in an economic recession, most of us had both parents working (if our parents were even together) I had my first job at 14 and a paper route, and went to school, and played sports.
The problem is that no one with a head on their shoulders will work for 10$ an hr., especially if they see the biz owner making ten times that. You're damn right if they have any ambition they will try to go out on their own, I did. Didn't you??

And i'll second that

 

[Treeinnovator]

I'm calling b@llsh*t on this one. I've heard all this crap about "gen X" my whole working life. I am proud to be a member of this "lost" generation, but we are completely misundertstood. Our teen years were spent while this country was in an economic recession, most of us had both parents working (if our parents were even together) I had my first job at 14 and a paper route, and went to school, and played sports.
The problem is that no one with a head on their shoulders will work for 10$ an hr., especially if they see the biz owner making ten times that. You're damn right if they have any ambition they will try to go out on their own, I did. Didn't you??
I agree that the education thing is a huge factor. I worked for a company that would send us to seminars and the trade shows and all that fun stuff, when I was hired I was promised schooling for college credit, the carrot kept getting bigger and the stick longer untill I had enough and quit to do my own thing and go back to school.
The thing about gen X is that we can smell hypocracy a mile a way...............pay attention, we've grown up watching you

the only thing Gen Xer's smell is the interior of the brand new Lexus mommy and daddy bought for them when they got a "c" average on their report card. every punk kid i dealt with from age 20 to 29 seriously believed that if they went to college, partied and took a few tests... they came out expecting...i mean OWED an $80,000 job from the 1st day. time to wake up. how's that house hunting going? i love hearing the stories about the gen Xer's not being able to afford a high priced house that all us REAL MEN had to earn.

 

[John464]

you are right when speaking about American youth. American's dont get that work ethic until they have i.e wife, kids, mortgage, which usually happens mid twenties and on. Those are the Americans you want to hire, not the americans that only are working for extra spending cash.

Latino raised youth have a different work ethic than you described. They will give a damn about your equipment, will show up on time, and will take pride in their work. I currently have quite a few Latino employees ranging from $10 an hour to $16 an hour and they work extremely hard for me. They have all started at $9 for the first two weeks of training, then $10 for remaining first year and they know if they respect me and work hard they will be provided a good life. EMPLOYEES TALK TO ONE ANOTHER. I take them out to eat atleast once a week. I pay for their gas in their trucks/cars to get to work. The problem is with American youth is even if you treat them right they dont appreciate it, it is different when you do the same for other cultures.

NOTE: when speaking $$ it is only relative to your area and direct competition that surrounds your area. Do everything a few notvhes above your competition and you will allow for the better employees in your area.

 

[Dan R Porter]

One or two, or even three or four, exceptions, do not prove anybody wrong. The discussion is about general trends. I suspect everybody who posted above is well aware that there are exceptions.


If you want to be upwardly mobile, learn to think more carefully.

Well i stand corrected. Everyone else who works with me is around my age, 23-29 (I am 25) and I am at 12.20 right now. And maybe 1 out of those 5 are worth a cent. They are lazy, and just do not take any pride. To them it is just a job. And they call me the idot for being so serious about my work.... Maybe they are all right and we are the dumb ones...heh just a twist.

 

[Thillmaine]

GEn X

I am currently 21 years old and do agree with most of the abov posts. Many of my friends, even ones who work with our tree company can not think for themselves and dont even put their mind to use, you know its the little things that count, rather then being told to coil rope, they just do it, rather then telling them to fuelt he saws int he mornignt hey just do it. using their own brainpower to benefit everyone. Myself I do not consider one of these "robots." I started at 10 an hour 2 years ago, learned how to climb last summer and became certified Maine landscape and utility arborist after only 8 months on the job. My boss wouldnt train me to climb for quite some time so I bought my own gear and he got the hint. Know I have my own business on the side, doing landscaping and treework, and work at least 80 hours a week. So a lot can be said for many of the Gen X'ers but I think their are a few amongst us that certainally defraud this label.
When it come to motivation I do agree witht he first post. I have worked for many companies throughout the green industry, and by far the biggest issue is the boss. My current boss is always ready to go, loves to get us fired up, is upbeat and excited to got to work in the AM. Another boss of mine is the same way in the area I go to school. Always fired up ready to go, fiesty and motivating. A boss I had previously at a nursery was possibly the singlemost nastiest person I have ever met. Her employees reflect this. They are alwatys hiding out trying no tot do a damn thing and nothing at the place sells. Personally I think the "boss" has alot to dow ith employees, he can be the straw the broke the camels back or the one who keeps the employees excited about working their.
On another ADD note, education benefits are tremendously important in this industry. An employee who is intrested in education benfifts can only benfit the company in the long run. Many people could care less about furthering themselves, they knwo what they know and thats it and the are content with that. That is fine for most people but in an expanding and innovative companie s a lot can be said about an employee who wants to keep up to date with all their certifications and the newest technologies.

 

[Dan R Porter]

My company pays that for DRIVERS. (No CDL.) All they have to do is show up, and follow a map, with an engineer there to straigten them out when they go wrong.

And for that money, we get the dregs. Yes, there is an occasional college student or whatever who is way over qualified, and is there because the job happens to suit them temporarily, but they are the EXCEPTION.

Are you hiring? heh...I am willing to relocate to Virginia.

 

[beowulf343]

anyone with ambition and common sense will start their own tree service the first chance they get. sometimes it's better to have a not so great employee for that reason.

I don't agree with you treeinnovator. Granted, I would probably start my own company if I had a jerk of a boss, but I love not having any headaches. I don't have to worry about insurance, employees, finding jobs, paying employees, buying equipment, finding employees, etc. I am just sent out to do the job and I can concentrate on what I love to do-climbing. And at the end of the day, I can just go home and not have to worry about the company. Sure, I may not make millions of dollars a year, but I live comfortably. I guess I'm just lazy and a dumbass.

 

[Climb020]

I have to say I am sick and tired of people trash talking the young guys. Though I will agree that many do deserve an @ss whipping but give credit to those that work their ass off.
I was just a regular kid that lived on the wrong side of the tracks and went to private school to keep me alive. Every summer I hauled firewood and split it by hand while most kids at 10 where out riding there bike. I was poor and had no parents cause 1 died (heart attack from logging) the other ran away so I couldn't go to college.
But after 2 and a 1/2 years of bust my hump and learning everything that I could I just got another job offering over $20 as well I finished 7th in NJ this year.

Lazy ?????*s come from every age group. And you pay for what you get. You want to be cheap and pay $10/hour then you deserve a worker that will give you your moneys worth and not a penny more.
My first tree boss was kinda the same way. My first day he said it was gonna be hard work and I told him no problem cause a little hard work never killed noone. He didn't believe me but he does know and that is why I still help him out on the weekends.

I would love to work with some of you guys some times. I would run circles around you and tell you to go f.. off at the end of the day for being sterotypical.