Estimating price?

[LoneStarLawn]

We are not in the tree business yet so I wanted to get an idea on how you priced for trimming a tree? A full trim thinning it out...

 

[Treebeard]

Well..it depends...do I have to leave the ground? Are there lots of targets for me to avoid hitting? Is it in a tight situation that requires me to rope & lower wood? Is the tree dead & rotten..therefore a risk to my life? Do you want the stump removed or left? How big is the tree? Little ones take less time than big ones. I estimate every tree as a unique project, too many "what if" variables to complicate the job. :blob4:

 

[sonny]

1st thing is to determine time. How much time it will take to complete the job.

 

[treeclimber165]

Kinda hard to sell something unless you know what it is you are selling. Not trying to be a hardass, but it's kinda like the office worker who buys a Craftsman rider mower and asks how to bid lawn maintenence work. Easier to understand if you have actually done the work and understand what a particular tree (or property) needs.
With that being said, I usually bid for $1000 per day with a 2 man crew when I was working for myself. When I worked for Davey Tree, they had higher overhead (but better equipment) and jobs were sold at $65 per man hour. I averaged $1500 per day with a 2 man crew.

 

[Deere John]

I figured that, and this is from 1994 - my last serious go at the sport, that I had to get the following to cover fixed and normal variable costs:

Me = $50 per hour
Labourer, no saw = $25/hour
Labourer with equipment = $35
Pickup = $25/day plus 30 cents / mile
Bucket Truck plus me = $85
Chipper - same as built into truck
Backhoe -$45

The biggest thing is to be able to estimate your time, as said above. I never published rates, just kept them in my head for fixed-price bids. I also had a slush factor that I'd add on depending on my feeling about how sure I was of being hired - the more sure, the more slush. You'll get the feeling after you "buy" a few jobs - we all do.

 

[LoneStarLawn]

treeclimber165

Like I said before i am not in the tree trimming business...I wanted to get ideas on estimates so when I hit that fork in the road and want to add on this service with the hiring of an experienced staff 9yearsa down the road), I will have some knowledge about the subject. So I would have to say that your analogy is way off...It is so pleasant coming here to this forum....

 

[sonny]

Lone star...
I dont know how to reply to your post.All the replies were correct. Tree work can not be estamated on the phone. At least I think im speaking for for all the tree men , or tree people. We dont know what you want.1st of all at least hear in So. Cal. to be legal, workers comp. Ins. is 41% of wages last time I checked.Not including Lib. Ins.& thats what is tearing up the tree trade.To many landscapers doing tree work.Nothing against what your doing, Its just VERY hard to make lagit living at tree work.The big boys can do it by owning the bond companys.I will shut up, as im sure treeman 165 or something will get on my back to ask how many beers i have drank.Oh well Im sure my phone # is somewhere on my profile if you have any questions. I have been involved it tree work for over 35 yrs. gave it up in 1999. Never been happier. But i sure do miss chopping date palm stumps out where the stump grinder cant get into.Sorry for the spelling im just a plow boy that loved cutting trees. It was such a easy job , Than bucking hay, for 30 cents a bail stacked in the barn.

 

[treeclimber165]

Lonestar-
I apologize if I offended you, but I could only reply to the question asked. I have met many landscapers over the years who think they can bid tree jobs with a Craftsman saw and a ladder. Those by far outnumber the legitimate professionals who consider adding a tree crew with proper equipment and personel. With nothing to indicate otherwise, I assumed you were in the majority. The vast majority of people who are successful at tree work do it because they love the work, not for the 'great monetary profits'. It is an extremely high-risk line of work compared to landscaping and lawn maintenence. I can speak from a point of knowledge as I owned my own landscaping business for 8 years before going into tree work full time. And yes, I did some 'ladder high' tree work before I knew what I was doing.
If you decide to pursue tree work, I wish you much luck and I hope you are lucky enough to find someone who truly loves trees to learn from.

And Sonny- Thank you for backing me up Buddy! Have the next beer on me

 

[sonny]

Its a done deal treeclimber, Next time i go threw divorce, im sure i will head down your way. my bro is in Tampa.Its not polite to coon hunt no more. We do some good hog hunting, up around cross city.

 

[Treebeard]

I don't think anybody is trying to bust your chops. But you really need to define "tree trimming". Too many folks out there willing to take the money for a tree topping vs folks that talk people out of a removal or something radical because it's bad...for the owners property value, for the TREE, for your reputation. I'd ;ove to have a full service landscape operation that has quality people for all aspects...a tree crew, irrigation crew, etc. We all dream (grin)

 

[sonny]

Im not a trucker treebeard, but thats a big 10-4 good buddy

 

[Deere John]

Hi guys - sorry I'm late - not much sleep these days.....

I re-read all the above verbage, and I agree on three things from above.

1) the question was general, so specifics are too hard to give

2) all the advice given was good

3) most of all, I agree with the beer offer - it is 92 degrees here with 95% humidity.

 

[Darin]

As a moderator, I delete items that are out of line. I just think the simple facts might have taken you by surprise. What he is trying to say is tree work is like combat. Each battle is different. So sugar coating somthing might not be the best way to answer this question. I dont think it is a bad question you pose either. There are many fundementals that where brought up right in this thread. From these answers lets broaden the topic to one of them you are interested in. Like no access or rotting trees. This sort of question will allow you to brighten your outlook on the tree industry. These guys are great in here, so I have to back them up on this one in the fact that they meant no harm. LoneStar all I can offer to you is the forum is sorry, but you cant be so sensitive when getting the answers you dont wish to recieve. :angel:

 

[LoneStarLawn]

It's not that im being to sensitive...it is that I was looking for help...as a teacher one may need to ask the student questions...

So someone without knowledge about a subject will give a very broad question. It is up to the teacher to get the question to a more specific topic that can be answered easier.

As a very active member of lawsite.com (addict) I understand the actions taken in forums such as this.... so a novice to this I am not...to tree work I am (if I really thought it was out of line Darin I would have reported to you as the moderator , but it was far from it) That is why I came here looking for answers (trying to learn so I know what I am selling down the road)...not to be compared to an office worker with a crapsman (That is what we call it on the other side). I was actually looking to become a full service in 10 years so I wanted to get a jump into understanding how things work.

Treeclimber165 actually gave me insight in his second paragraph...in his first paragraph; did that help...not at all...did it hurt my feelings ...not at all.

Just remember we lawn service guys are just as professional as you all (unfortunately not all lawn service guys are)...

I do appreciate everyone's insight though

 

[treeclimber165]

LONESTAR

Try going back and READING your origional post. Then hide your name, pretend it was written by someone else, and substitute 'landscaping' for 'tree trimming' . You came off like an amateur and were answered likewise. (...we are not in the tree business yet, so how do you price a tree?)
The consequences of a bad tree trimming last years. If you mow a lawn badly you can fix it in a week.

"...as a teacher one may need to ask the student questions"

ROFL! I would also recommend NOT smoking whatever you had when you wrote this while bidding a job!

 

[LoneStarLawn]

So instead of getting answers here from professionals you suggest when I will do tree work that I go "out on a limb" and just go do the work and learn from my mistakes? I really think I made the right decision coming here getting insight on what must be done....incorrect analogies towards someone who is looking for answers is just unprofessional. If my question was to vague and needed to be redefined then just say so.

Again we are not doing any tree work and don't plan on it for awhile so treat the question maybe like a curious customer who wants to get a better understanding of what you look for in estimating your price.

 

[Darin]

Come on guys. LoneStar Has a valid question. Lets help him. This guy genuinely wants to learn. To tell him to hide his name and to sit here and argue is not what this forum is intended for. LoneStar I will try to give you the best insight I can soon. I unfortunately have to run right now. As tree guys, I think we might get a little ticked when the landscaper gets the job. Just like if some tree guy that wants to get involved with the lawn business doesnt know about turf grass all the time and he steals a job from you or just some "scrub". I personally feel is fair game if you know what you are doing. I hope we can get a little more civil in here and help this guy out. Would we want him to bid a job and loose his tail on it? Lets get some topics going that might help him judge what he is looking at. I will not allow you guys to battle it out. It affects my traffic on here. Arboristsite has been a friendly site until I have read some of these comments. We are not being very helpful. I personally liked his question. Its vague. Its a huge topic. Lets start discussing and stop arguing.

 

[Darin]

LoneStar do you think it would help if we just post new threads about certain areas of the bidding process and you would ask your questions from there? Basically elaborate you questions from threads we generate. Like bidding restricted access or something to that effect. Or chop and drop thread. I would start the thread with areas I know that we look at when bidding. Then the guys, hopefully civil, will elaborate on my question. Again I am sorry. I usually back my men, but when they go out of bounds, it doesnt thrill me either. Let me know. And treeclimber did you stay out with the goat too long last night and wake up on the wrong side of the barn. (joke from another thread)

 

[Toddppm]

When people find out I do tree work that is the most common question, How much does it cost to trim/remove/whatever a tree? Same answer everytime , every tree is different.
Pricing tree work is just like any lawn or landscape work it's all about time like Sonny said. You have to know your overhead and how much you want to make.
But you also have to know what it takes to do a job, or someone with experience to do the estimate for you, there is no substitute for experience , a job may look real simple to you, but for the guy that has to do it , he will see almost every obstacle before he goes up and even then once you start , you may notice things on the way up that will change your plans.(usually too late to change the price then though)

 

[Deere John]

There is a tremendous wealth of info here, by people willing to help others. With everyones' time and energy somewhat limited, more specific topics will fetter out the most relatively useful advice in the shortest amount of time. No flames to anyone - just an general observation on the best way to seek info in these forums.

Don't let the summer's heat get to everyone.