Ethanol fuel additives?

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Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not a scientist or an economist but being Ethanol is grain produced, shouldn't the amount of fuel used in its production also be added into the equation. I know its less efficient than oil, and if you add all the extra fuel that's used to produce grain ( plowing, planting, picking, and trucking), its even less efficient.
 
glad i burn ethanol free funny because ethanol free is the same price as E10 but i get 3 more miles for every gallon of gas.
shelf life is lovely i park the equipment in november and when march rolls around they start and run perfectly.
no water,white rust, collapsed lines, or gooey jello in the carburetors.
not in iowa,,30 cents diff....
 
Ain't that the truth??
If it wasn't for government kick-ins, regulations, and whatnot, ethanol blended gasoline would easily cost more than plain gas... in fact, it does cost more than plain gas, but government sucks it from you in a pre-pay tax way so you don't see the cost at the pump.
It's all smoke 'n' mirrors... only a fool could believe ethanol was costing him less than gasoline.

Up until about a year ago the major pipeline supplying Iowa with gasoline was shipping 87 octane and 91 octane. Those were blended with ethanol to give us 4 readily available grades at the pumps... 87 E-free, 89 E10, 91 E-free, and 93 E10. Well, Iowa is one of the few states without an ethanol "mandate", and it seems we weren't burning enough of that crap to make the politicians and their tree-hugger friends happy. So, they manipulated the market with subsidies, tax credits and regulation to artificially reduce the price of (regular grade) E10, and increase the price of (regular grade) E-free... meaning we all pay for the ethanol, we pay a lot for the ethanol‼

Here's the result of the market manipulation...
We no longer get 87 octane gasoline shipped to Iowa... we get 84 octane, which is cheaper than 87 (and lower grade). Iowa law says gas at the pump must be a minimum of 87 octane... so the tree-huggers figured to eliminate the regular grade E-free at our pumps by forcing Iowa to blend all the lower grade gas with 10% ethanol so it meets the minimum octane rating. Add in a blenders (tax) credit for using E10 and you've got special interest manipulation of the market. It didn't work out perfectly for them... some is blended with ethanol, but the customers and pump owners wouldn't stand for such BS, some of the 84 is also blended with 91 octane to meet the minimum. The 89 E10 is gone, replaced with 87 E10 and it's cheaper than the 89 E10 was because it's blended with cheaper gas now. We still have the 87 E-free, but the price took a hike because the cheaper (lower grade) 84 gas has to be blended with the more expensive 91 octane.

Market manipulation... the E10 gas gets artificially cheaper, and the E-free gets artificially more expensive... smoke 'n' friggin' mirrors‼
Anyone who believes ethanol is cheaper than gasoline is wearing blinders... only a fool would wear them.
Take off the blinders and follow the damn money... take a look at who's getting rich and fat with ethanol dollars... your dollars‼
The ethanol program is one of the biggest scams ever pulled on the American people and the amount of money it steals from them gets larger every year. It's a house of cards that will eventually collapse... and when it does... well... the cost of that will be tremendous.
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and it s the same pile of bs,,with wind turbines....
 
Of course they do... but that ain't the point... you're just perverting the facts again.
So you're sayin', if doctors reported that 85% of the people they see with lung cancer were smokers, you'd ignore that??
See?? 85% of smokers don't get lung cancer, more like 15%... but 85% of lung cancer patients smoke.
Using your twisted reasoning, smoking ain't bad for ya' because the majority of smokers don't get lung cancer and go see a doctor :laughing:
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What on gods green earth are you talking about. In your analogy you would be the one saying that 85% of smokers get lung cancer. Not me. Hence my analogy of doctors seeing a lot of sick people is like a mechanic saying he changes a lot of bad carburetors. While it may be true it doesn't tell the whole story. I am not sure how you read that backwards.

My point is that not everyone has the problems with ethanol that some of you have.

Before you run your mouth maybe you should go get a chemistry book, butter it and cram it sideways.
 
In your analogy you would be the one saying that 85% of smokers get lung cancer.
I never made any such analogy... not about doctors, mechanics, lung cancer, or carburetors.
I challenge you... I friggin' challenge you... to to quote where I did.

I simply and plainly indicated that the vast majority of carburetor patients my mechanic friends treat were/are using ethanol blended gasoline.
I never once... not friggin' once... made any reference to the percentage of total ethanol users that represented... not friggin' once‼
What on gods green earth are you talking about??

My point is that not everyone has the problems with ethanol that some of you have.
I never said everyone has... I never even said the majority has...
In fact, I'll repeat something I've already posted...
It ain't that you've been lucky so far, it's just that you ain't been unlucky... yet‼

I ain't the one getting anything backwards... nor am I trying to have it both ways... I'm dead solid consistent.

- Your point is not everyone using ethanol has had problems... so that makes it OK to use ethanol as motor fuel??
- My point is not everyone using tobacco gets lung cancer... so that makes it OK to smoke??

- Doctors tell us that the vast majority of lung cancer patients they see are smokers... and they recommend not smoking because it unhealthy for your body based on their observations.
- Mechanics tell us that the vast majority of carburetor patients they see are using ethanol... and they recommend not using it because it unhealthy for your engine based on their observations.

Before you run your mouth maybe you should go get a chemistry book, butter it and cram it sideways.
Typical... just friggin' typical... right out'a the play book... when ya' ain't got facts to back your argument, switch into personal attack mode and attempt to belittle or denigrate your opponent.

Let me ask you something genius... how is a chemistry book gonna' help me with replacing a carburetor??
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...shouldn't the amount of fuel used in its production also be added into the equation.
"Expert" opinions and estimates vary... but most of the ones that appear credible (to me anyway) come in at something between 1 and 1½ gallons of gasoline equivalent consumed to produce 1 gallon of ethanol (from corn). The reason the word "equivalent" is used is because all sorts of fossil fuel is used in corn and ethanol production... diesel, natural gas, LPG, coal, etc. Also, keep in mind that a significant chunk of the electricity used in the production is generated by fossil fuel consumption. There ain't anything "green" about using ethanol for motor fuel... and when you consider it contains less energy per unit than the gasoline equivalent it consumes during production, it ain't even "renewable" (technically speaking).

It's a joke... it's about the money... the tree-huggers and greenies have been played and they ain't smart enough to see it.
It ain't the first time they've been played, and it won't be the last... when you have tunnel vision it makes you an easy mark.

Did you know we can import ethanol from sugar cane cheaper than we can produce it from corn?? That ain't no joke, we export ethanol at a net loss... it's the only way we can compete with sugar cane ethanol prices in the world market.
That's your government at work for ya' :laughing:
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What I find funny in this discission is the typical leaving out important info mentality. No mention at all what carbs need rebuilding, what age saws, etc. Just a bunch of how can I get the best view of my side of the story...

The typical problem, as far as I see it, is a bunch of guys lamenting about the fact that their saws of yesteryear are dying prematurely. Well is any one sane suprised by this fact? Well I am not. And that products dying because they were never designed to use the fuel of today is hardly impressive. If we are talking about pro saws, they were designed to have a work life of around 5 years in a pro setting. So all the comments that the saw is dying prematurely is from people using their saw in a unintended way! How many modern aws have been effected? Never heard of a single one. Why? Because.manufactureres have probably recognised the problem and acted accordingly. And whoever believes that is simply braindead. Manufacturers are thanking all the angles in heaven for getting the easiest excuse in the world for bad production. And if we are honest the introduction of ethanol to gas has been known for over 20!!! years. So I wonder who is really to blame... Aah yes the tree huggers

And all this idiotic lamenting about the evil tree huggers bringing on evil ethanol is simply embarrising to ones iq. Treehuggers jumped onto the train that the ethanol industry offered. The subsideries to the crop producers have always been there. It is nothing new that crop production in industrial nations is economically simply a deficit game.

And the comments that engine rebuilders are unhappy about ethanol is also hilarious. It has guarenteed then a welcome extra income.

So hopefully no one will answer further more and i don't habe to read any biased beliefs anymore.

Oh well doubt it...

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And if we are honest the introduction of ethanol to gas has been known for over 20!!!
Been over 30 years 'round here... Iowa had "Gasohol" at the pump in the late 70s.

What I find funny in this discission is the typical leaving out important info mentality. No mention at all what carbs need rebuilding, what age saws, etc. Just a bunch of how can I get the best view of my side of the story...
The typical problem, as far as I see it, is a bunch of guys lamenting about the fact that their saws of yesteryear are dying prematurely. Well is any one sane suprised by this fact? Well I am not. And that products dying because they were never designed to use the fuel of today is hardly impressive.
Well... this is about more than just yesteryear's chainsaws, it's about the use of ethanol blended gas in OPE of all sorts.
Ethanol has a corrosive effect on plastic, rubbers, and most importantly metals... meaning any OPE with a carburetor, of any vintage, is equally susceptible. I don't know where you get the idea manufacturers can build around the effects of ethanol... what would you suggest they use for material?? Auto makers have limited the effects with computer controlled, high pressure, multi-port fuel injection systems... but I don't believe a homeowner wants to pay $13,000 for a lawn mower, nor would he like pushing all the extra weight around.

So I wonder who is really to blame... Aah yes the tree huggers
And all this idiotic lamenting about the evil tree huggers bringing on evil ethanol is simply embarrising to ones iq. Treehuggers jumped onto the train that the ethanol industry offered.
I didn't read (or post) where tree-huggers are to blame :confused:
I pretty much said they're victims of the scam... partly due to their own naivety.

And the comments that engine rebuilders are unhappy about ethanol is also hilarious.
Unhappy?? Engine rebuilders?? When were those comments made??

So hopefully no one will answer further more and i don't habe to read any biased beliefs anymore.
Bias?? :laughing: Who's being bias??
And beliefs?? It certainly ain't about belief :laughing:
Heck man, I read more biased beliefs in your post than I have in any other in this thread.
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... Uh... So fuel additives for use with E10... What was the general consensus for what works best?


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Been over 30 years 'round here... Iowa had "Gasohol" at the pump in the late 70s.


Well... this is about more than just yesteryear's chainsaws, it's about the use of ethanol blended gas in OPE of all sorts.
Ethanol has a corrosive effect on plastic, rubbers, and most importantly metals... meaning any OPE with a carburetor, of any vintage, is equally susceptible. I don't know where you get the idea manufacturers can build around the effects of ethanol... what would you suggest they use for material?? Auto makers have limited the effects with computer controlled, high pressure, multi-port fuel injection systems... but I don't believe a homeowner wants to pay $13,000 for a lawn mower, nor would he like pushing all the extra weight around.


I didn't read (or post) where tree-huggers are to blame :confused:
I pretty much said they're victims of the scam... partly due to their own naivety.


Unhappy?? Engine rebuilders?? When were those comments made??


Bias?? :laughing: Who's being bias??
And beliefs?? It certainly ain't about belief :laughing:
Heck man, I read more biased beliefs in your post than I have in any other in this thread.
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Well obviously you didn't understand much that I wrote but I didn't expect anything else.

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... Uh... So fuel additives for use with E10... What was the general consensus for what works best?


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Anything you want or nothing. Fuel adatives all contain a solovents weather it be petroleum based or alcohol based. Most of the petrolium based ones are made up of stuff that is already in gasoline. Most of the alcohol ones are made up of stuff that has similar properties to ethanol.

Pick whatever you want. The whole 2 ounces of adative in 5 gallons of gas isn't going to make much difference. Focus more on properly storing and using your gas.
 
It's a joke... it's about the money... the tree-huggers and greenies have been played and they ain't smart enough to see it.
It ain't the first time they've been played, and it won't be the last... when you have tunnel vision it makes you an easy mark.

Did you know we can import ethanol from sugar cane cheaper than we can produce it from corn?? That ain't no joke, we export ethanol at a net loss... it's the only way we can compete with sugar cane ethanol prices in the world market.
That's your government at work for ya' :laughing:
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yeah,,and theres more than a few "greenies" on this forum,,and yes, they have WORSE than tunnel vision....also,,jerry moonbeam brown wants to get his eth from brazil some years back, and bush said no!!!!
 
are you speaking of 10% eth in gas,,or something else entirely???

I was talking about stabilizers and other similar adatives. That is what this thread was about.[/QUOTE]
seems to me,, all the talk was about ethanol.................and the title of this thread,,or did you change the op's title???
 
... Uh... So fuel additives for use with E10... What was the general consensus for what works best?


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Startron supposedly has an enzyme component, that's what I use. Does it work? I really don't know, but I haven't had any problems with it, and some of my equipment sits a while.
 

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