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EXTREME precision falling

ropensaddle

ropensaddle

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Nails,
that's a decent cut, but has some disadvantages, especially when getting into the kind of force involved in this monster horizontal lead.. ie... easy to overcut the notch and pinch the bar, hard to handle a saw cutting a notch upwards against gravity with a big saw, hard to judge just how much to take off the sides on the coos bay.... chance of getting pinched on the coos bay... for starters...

as far as not putting a clock on your cuts.. I would suggest that we all do... we should all be striving for maximum efficiency, without sacrificing safety.. Its often the case that the most efficient method is also a safer alternative... saw handling is such a big part of this business, yet there is very little focus on it for some unknown reason... just look at the classes at TCIA or ISA conferences... when did you ever hear of a class on falling cuts, or climbing cuts... no one wants to touch the issue...

I only emphasize the 23 seconds to make the point of just how efficient this cut is.. if you never paid attention to how long it takes you to make your cuts, you wouldn't have anything to compare that to. You've got good falling skills, WAY better than most, but there is still a lot of room for improvement in your game... seconds matter in this profession... A LOT!!! making everything (all repetitive tasks), including your cuts, as fast and efficient as possible, makes the difference between good and GREAT... Look at the vids Cody has been posting... His cutting techniques are flawless, no wasted movement, saving BIG TIME AND ENERGY..
Ahhhh lol, But ya see; I have the edge on them still heads:hmm3grin2orange: When I was cutting new row years back, if I did not have 50 trees on the ground in less than 30 minutes my saw was dull. I would have to agree on wasted movement concept, however; difference between great and good is merely perception and many times ego. My opinion of great is no wasted energy and no accidents and I can still say that during my watch no one has ever been in a serious accident in 30 years and 20 was supervising. To me speed is not the biggest factor of being a pro and sometimes can be the exact opposite of that term. Knowing when speed of production can be utilized safely and when a slower pace is called for is the mark of experience. There is so many factors involved in each job performed for example: if using skid steer making a big mess is not as counter productive as when using a chuck and duck! If chipping, I prefer to cut it ready to chip, saves saw chain! Is it slower in the tree yes but time spent on the ground is also a factor. Now I must go murder 10 trees see ya'll afternoon :cheers:
 

lxt

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I find it funny that anyone would time their cuts....I dont care how big a horizontal limb is either! the reason no one touches these issues is because its already been hammered to death!! why mess with tried & true methods that work?

you wanna really show us some magic put that limb over 3 phase 4kv or 23kv line & then lets see how fast you wanna be? ropes hit it right on with his statement & thank god finally someone who actually comments on safety!!!!!

Really..................do we care about 23 seconds, REALLY? what a worthless topic to try & make ones self seem knowledgeable about.


LXT............
 
treemandan

treemandan

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Nails,
that's a decent cut, but has some disadvantages, especially when getting into the kind of force involved in this monster horizontal lead.. ie... easy to overcut the notch and pinch the bar, hard to handle a saw cutting a notch upwards against gravity with a big saw, hard to judge just how much to take off the sides on the coos bay.... chance of getting pinched on the coos bay... for starters...

as far as not putting a clock on your cuts.. I would suggest that we all do... we should all be striving for maximum efficiency, without sacrificing safety.. Its often the case that the most efficient method is also a safer alternative... saw handling is such a big part of this business, yet there is very little focus on it for some unknown reason... just look at the classes at TCIA or ISA conferences... when did you ever hear of a class on falling cuts, or climbing cuts... no one wants to touch the issue...

I only emphasize the 23 seconds to make the point of just how efficient this cut is.. if you never paid attention to how long it takes you to make your cuts, you wouldn't have anything to compare that to. You've got good falling skills, WAY better than most, but there is still a lot of room for improvement in your game... seconds matter in this profession... A LOT!!! making everything (all repetitive tasks), including your cuts, as fast and efficient as possible, makes the difference between good and GREAT... Look at the vids Cody has been posting... His cutting techniques are flawless, no wasted movement, saving BIG TIME AND ENERGY..
I agree that alot of tree work schools don't teach much about tree work.
 
NIP Group
Nailsbeats

Nailsbeats

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Nov 24, 2007
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Nails,
that's a decent cut, but has some disadvantages, especially when getting into the kind of force involved in this monster horizontal lead.. ie... easy to overcut the notch and pinch the bar, hard to handle a saw cutting a notch upwards against gravity with a big saw, hard to judge just how much to take off the sides on the coos bay.... chance of getting pinched on the coos bay... for starters...

as far as not putting a clock on your cuts.. I would suggest that we all do... we should all be striving for maximum efficiency, without sacrificing safety.. Its often the case that the most efficient method is also a safer alternative... saw handling is such a big part of this business, yet there is very little focus on it for some unknown reason... just look at the classes at TCIA or ISA conferences... when did you ever hear of a class on falling cuts, or climbing cuts... no one wants to touch the issue...

I only emphasize the 23 seconds to make the point of just how efficient this cut is.. if you never paid attention to how long it takes you to make your cuts, you wouldn't have anything to compare that to. You've got good falling skills, WAY better than most, but there is still a lot of room for improvement in your game... seconds matter in this profession... A LOT!!! making everything (all repetitive tasks), including your cuts, as fast and efficient as possible, makes the difference between good and GREAT... Look at the vids Cody has been posting... His cutting techniques are flawless, no wasted movement, saving BIG TIME AND ENERGY..
Moving smoothly from cut to cut is where I make up my time, but when in the cut I let the wood fibers reaction to my cutting movements dictate my speed.

When I was younger it was all about speed, which led to many small errors, cut off hinge, mis gunned drops, failure to make perfectly clean and appropriate depth, height and angle notches often resulting in excessive hinge preasures and mistimed/dirty realeases.

The right way to do it is to slow down your game until you become an Ace, able to make perfect cuts seemlessly. Then pick it up a bit, although if I ever think I can go back to cutting with my head down, blazing from tree to tree, the sloppiness will surely return.
 
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murphy4trees

murphy4trees

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why mess with tried & true methods that work? .
Just imagine where medicine, physics, mathematics, or any other scientific discipline would be with that attitude...

Imagine going to some small out of the way country and seeing saddles made out of boards and manilla rope being used to do tree work..
that's a fairly decent analogy, comparing your tried and true cuts to this one!
 
ropensaddle

ropensaddle

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Just imagine where medicine, physics, mathematics, or any other scientific discipline would be with that attitude...

Imagine going to some small out of the way country and seeing saddles made out of boards and manilla rope being used to do tree work..
that's a fairly decent analogy, comparing your tried and true cuts to this one!
Murphy your whole deal about cuts and timing come on, really; if efficiency is what your after, the conventional is by far as efficient as any. Matter of fact. I would wager if we had ten trees each a safe distance apart and you did your fancy cutting while I did conventional notch and drop, I'm betting even if you stuck me with a stihl I would finish first. Its plainly less steps and its effective and worked for centuries. I used your step cut the other day then went back to my way, the step cut worked but I really saw no actual benefit to my work at hand. I might chose it if I was topping and wanted to be off the spar when it went over. However; I feel coming down could actually put you in more danger should a rogue wind happen while repelling. Im a fan Of going to the top and working it down. I admit some trees do not give us that option but I've found them to be far and few. Now without science and such we would not have nuclear waste, without math no tax, so you see; too much over thinking can create its own issues. I get what your saying and yes, we all should strive for the best we can be and I'm certain most do but if we believe we are Omniscient, then really, we missed the boat.
 
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murphy4trees

murphy4trees

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Murphy your whole deal about cuts and timing come on, really; if efficiency is what your after, the conventional is by far as efficient as any. we all should strive for the best we can be and I'm certain most do but if we believe we are Omniscient, then really, we missed the boat.
Rope,
when you don't get something, then I know I haven't explained it properly, so pretty much no one else is going to get it either.. So let me try again... this cut is not a universal cut that can be used to fall all trees etc... it works well on front leaners and limbs... When it is applicable, its far safer, faster, and easier than any conventional (or unconventional) cut that I know of... BY A LOT!
 
ropensaddle

ropensaddle

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Rope,
when you don't get something, then I know I haven't explained it properly, so pretty much no one else is going to get it either.. So let me try again... this cut is not a universal cut that can be used to fall all trees etc... it works well on front leaners and limbs... When it is applicable, its far safer, faster, and easier than any conventional (or unconventional) cut that I know of... BY A LOT!
I used conventional safely with almost 99.9 % of every tree front or back leaning for 30 years does not change the fact your cut is an extra step. So I would say your faster theory is in error. As far as safe, I guess much of that depends on the saw operator. I have cut mighty knarly leaners in every situation known to mankind with merely conventional notch and backcut never once was anyone at risk imo, yours may vary. One difference, I do have that winch, so setting back is not going to happen. I tell you what, one day I will make a video or shoot pics of my leaner pull notch and cut no bore or step used so you can see I've lived what I say.
 
murphy4trees

murphy4trees

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I used conventional safely with almost 99.9 % of every tree front or back leaning for 30 years does not change the fact your cut is an extra step. So I would say your faster theory is in error. As far as safe, I guess much of that depends on the saw operator. I have cut mighty knarly leaners in every situation known to mankind with merely conventional notch and backcut never once was anyone at risk imo, yours may vary. One difference, I do have that winch, so setting back is not going to happen. I tell you what, one day I will make a video or shoot pics of my leaner pull notch and cut no bore or step used so you can see I've lived what I say.

This is a different cut then the bore and step etc... faster, easier, safer than anything known to man! LOL
 
ropensaddle

ropensaddle

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Now having said all that Dan, the step cut is still a cut I may use and one thing I see is, you have consistently tried to improve your work and for that :cheers: I know at first my perspective of your character has changed quite a bit to your benefit. I also fell trees where I can and have used trucks and equipment to pull so I'm in agreement with you at many times. Anyway time to go load yesterdays mess stay safe.
 
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