Federal Airtight 264CCL Questions

[Cro]

thanks !

Hello again lads
Well, I'm sitting here in a t-shirt, the house is like a sauna ! {this from a girl who is permanently cold too}. This stove is amazing and we haven't even got it up to cat heat yet.

Thanks so much B for the black swan link. Thanks Dr. Ed for the steel plate advice too.

We will have to do one or the other, maybe I'll message Ray to see if he knows any places around here to get a plate made. I found a good diagram of the 264 on the Black Swan site and I've decided that the front grate we have is not original {it actually looked odd to me, it's higher than it should be with a solid piece blocking some of the lower glass window}. We also don't appear to have right and left side grates {they look like flaps in the diagram}. Now that you mentioned the back panel, I'll have to check that too. It's still cookin' though !

Not too cold here yet but I may have my Mum and Dad her for Christmas {first time ever!} and it's not nearly as cold at home as it gets here so I want to be able to keep a really warm house for them. With that in mind we are planning to save the wood for the open fireplace in the sitting room and burn coal in the stove in the kitchen so I need to make sure we have it together correctly.

Thanks again though. I really do appreciate all the insight.
C

 

[bsearcey]

Croi,

If you can, get a picture of your setup and post. Some of your descriptions seem a little odd and I can't get a good mental image of what you are talking about. For burning coal you will need three additional pieces to make a "hopper" to put the coal in. One goes across the front (which blocks about half of the viewing window) and two smaller ones go on each side creating a bin/hopper to hold the coal in. Anyway give us some pics of what you got and hopefully we can figure it out.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Parts are Scarce

You mean this one?

http://www.blackswanhome.com/cdw-fa264ccl.html

Beware. Black Swan only has a limited stock. Most of those parts can't be found anywhere anymore. Also, I forgot to mention that the baffle and flue collar also burned out on my 288 about 5 years ago. I replaced them as shown earlier on this thread with my own shop creations. That has rendered the cat combustor unnecessary.

Note that this stove demands a cat combustor or something like what I designed or you will send gobs of heat up the chimney. Looks like the Pics got moved somehow. Here are my two inventions:

This 1/4" thick steel plate drops in and replaces the cat combustor:

 

[bsearcey]

{it actually looked odd to me, it's higher than it should be with a solid piece blocking some of the lower glass window}. We also don't appear to have right and left side grates {they look like flaps in the diagram}.

After reading a little more, the front grate you talk about is probably correct for your stove. It is part of the hopper setup for burning coal. You don't really need it for burning wood, but some people use it if you want to leave the front doors open. Helps keep the wood in the stove. On the 264 diagram from Black Swan the coal hopper setup is #10 (front grate), 12 & 13 (side grates).

Others may correct me, but when you burn wood in the stove you don't use these extra grates. At least I don't. It'd be a PITA to load wood with all those semi upright grates in the way. They are only for burning coal. The manual you have should describe that. Since most of us use the side feed door for loading and don't burn with the front doors open, we don't use the front grate (unless the center fixed grate is broken, then it becomes an impromptu grate for the bottom of the stove).

These stoves are a labor of love. Sometimes more labor than love, but it's kind of fun figuring out the quirks and the work arounds.

 

[Cro]

update and more questions !

Hello again lads {sorry I don't know everyone's first names yet}.

Well, we were in Maine and New Hampshire end of last week so we had a hiatus from the stove adventures. )
I ordered the center grate and the side grates and they arrived today. I am attaching a few photos.
The first photo is the front grate which we took out while burning wood, I think you are correct that this is the right one because it says to have a six inch bed of coal when burning coal.
The second one is the new center grate with the side grate. Do we have these in correctly ?
My husband thinks the sides fit better with the center grate removed and he seems to think the center grate should fit into the notches that they shaker grates fit into but I think it just rests on top {as in picture}. I realize that the side grates don't sit on the floor of the stove but rest on the lip of the center grate, but I think this is okay .... is there a different center grate for coal ?

Please excuse the bad condition of the outside, I must get some paint for it before the holidays.

Just posted this and it's showing the attachments to open in another window, sorry about that, I don't know how to get them to show here. Thanks !

Also, do any of you have those doorway corner fans to circulate the air ? I was thinking of getting one {or two} as the stove is in the far side of the kitchen {which is about 25 ft in length so I want to pull the air towards the rest of the house}. Just thought I'd ask. Thanks !!

 

[Wood Doctor]

Posting a Pic

Caroline said, "Just posted this and it's showing the attachments to open in another window, sorry about that, I don't know how to get them to show here. Thanks !"
------------------
Use the Insert Image Icon (looks like a post card with a pair of pyramids) or in my case I use Photobucket and simply copy the Pic's IMG text to the post, such as this one:

Pardon my using Martina McBride for an example, but she's a doll.

 

[bsearcey]

Hello again lads {sorry I don't know everyone's first names yet}.

Well, we were in Maine and New Hampshire end of last week so we had a hiatus from the stove adventures. )
I ordered the center grate and the side grates and they arrived today. I am attaching a few photos.
The first photo is the front grate which we took out while burning wood, I think you are correct that this is the right one because it says to have a six inch bed of coal when burning coal.
The second one is the new center grate with the side grate. Do we have these in correctly ?
My husband thinks the sides fit better with the center grate removed and he seems to think the center grate should fit into the notches that they shaker grates fit into but I think it just rests on top {as in picture}. I realize that the side grates don't sit on the floor of the stove but rest on the lip of the center grate, but I think this is okay .... is there a different center grate for coal ?

Please excuse the bad condition of the outside, I must get some paint for it before the holidays.

Just posted this and it's showing the attachments to open in another window, sorry about that, I don't know how to get them to show here. Thanks !

Also, do any of you have those doorway corner fans to circulate the air ? I was thinking of getting one {or two} as the stove is in the far side of the kitchen {which is about 25 ft in length so I want to pull the air towards the rest of the house}. Just thought I'd ask. Thanks !!

Croi,

That should be the right fixed (center) grate for your stove, however your husband is right (if I'm reading your placement description corrrect). See how the shaker grates are under the bottom of the stove, kind of between two plates? The fixed grate is also installed this way. Just under where you have the fixed grate resting you'll see the opening that the edges of the grate rest on. You have to lift the bottom of the stove. In order to do this you will have to remove the back and side fire plates. That will allow you lift the bottom of the stove up. It is really not that difficult. I think it is 4 or 5 bolts to get the fire plates off. The the bottom (I usually lift from the back and pull forward. The front edge of the bottom will stay in place. This will give you plenty of room to work. You will get dirty. Also that side plate you show in your picture with the fixed grate is only needed when burning coal. Not needed when burning wood.

Keep us posted.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Croi,

That should be the right fixed (center) grate for your stove, however your husband if right (if I'm reading your placement description corrrect). See how the shaker grates are under the bottom of the stove? The fixed grate is also installed this way. You have to lift the bottom of the stove. In order to do this you will have to remove the back and side fire plates. That will allow you lift the bottom of the stove up. It is really not that difficult. I think it is 4 or 5 bolts to get the fire plates off. The bottom (I usually lift from the back and pull forward. The front edge of the bottom will stay in place. This will give you plenty of room to work. You will get dirty.

Brandon, if this posted Pic and your suggestions are correct, then the Federal Airtight 264 CCL is really different form my 288 CCL. Hard to believe that is true but apparently it is.

How could any grate be "under the bottom of a stove"? The only thing I have under the bottom of my Federal Airtight is the ash pan. The pivoting grates allow you to dump ashes into the ash pan. Right?

 

[Cro]

thanks !

Brandon, thanks a million for that info, we'll give it a whirl ! {btw, where I come from at home there is a mountain called Brandon, http://www.walkinghikingireland.com/tours/shortbreak_brandon.htm }

I will definitely keep you posted. Not sure how the bolts will go on ours since it's been so long idle. Peter will be happy he was right !

Dr. Ed, you are entirely forgiven for your blatant adoration of Martina, she's one gorgeous lady.

 

[Cro]

I hope you will be around tomorrow because I know he's going to want to get stuck into this right away. I'm sure we'll have more questions. )

 

[bsearcey]

Brandon, if this posted Pic and your suggestions are correct, then the Federal Airtight 264 CCL is really different form my 288 CCL. Hard to believe that is true but apparently it is.

How could any grate be "under the bottom of a stove"? The only thing I have under the bottom of my Federal Airtight is the ash pan. The pivoting grates allow you to dump ashes into the ash pan. Right?

Doc. Sometimes it's hard to put into words. Take a look at this picture.

 

[Cro]

Okay, we found the plates, Brandon you are spot on ... four bolts. We are hoping they are not rusted in place, he is going to have a stab at removing them today, so I'll let ye know how it goes.

 

[bsearcey]

Okay, we found the plates, Brandon you are spot on ... four bolts. We are hoping they are not rusted in place, he is going to have a stab at removing them today, so I'll let ye know how it goes.

I doubt you'll have any trouble.

Get a shop vac while you're in there and vaccum out the ash that has accumulated in the bottom (under Bottom 1 as shown in the pic). It will make putting things back into place easier.

Good luck.

 

[Cro]

Brandon
Unfortunately, it's a no-go. He got the plates off, just one bolt broke but the grate doesn't fit. It's too wide by about a half inch. I am waiting for a call-back from Black Swan but I think I've already solved the puzzle. On the site it lists this grate for the 264 but on the invoice it says '1988- 1990' and ours is 1983. Obviously they must have changed it in the five years. The opening is 11.5'' but the grate is 12''. If they don't have a smaller one and we can't get this one cut down, we'll probably just let it sit on the upper lip of the plate, it'll leave a gap under the side grates but it will still be better than a big gap in the middle !

I'll be back.

 

[Cro]

Alright, so maybe I can add some new information to this thread.
I just got off the phone with a very nice and knowledgeable fellow called Jeremy at Black Swan. It turns out that at one time Consolidated Dutchwest manufactured some of their stoves in Taiwan and on the plate on the back it says 'Dutchwest India Ltd' and of course ours is this one and they don't make parts for these anymore and many of the parts available don't fit by just the smallest margin. So even if you find parts for the Federal Airtight 264CCL, if yours says Dutchwest India on the back, these parts likely won't fit. Having said that the side grate parts do fit and I told him this. He said they are going to probably add this information to the website.

We are going to keep the grate and try to get it cut down. Whichever one of you wrote that these stoves are more labor than love, got it right ! Though I am still delighted with it and have no intention of giving up.

Thanks again for all the great information. Drinks on us if ye ever visit Plymouth !
Caroline

p.s. Croí is my nickname since forever, it means ''heart'' in Irish. Either is grand though so whichever ye use is fine.

 

[bsearcey]

I'm sure you can get it to work. Just take it to a metal shop and tell them what you need. Or just have them fab something up for you to the right dimensions. I don't think the design of the grate is all that important. You just need something in that center location that takes up enough space to keep larger coals from falling into your ash tray, put allowing the ash to pass thorough. Maybe just a flat piece of 1/4" plate steel with some holes drilled, center, running the length, about 1 inch apart? You may have to replace it more often from the heat then you would cast iron, but I'm sure it would be cheap to make so have 5 made at once and change as needed. Doc's good with the fabricating, I'm sure he'll chime in.

As far as what you keep referring to as the "side grates", you don't need them for wood burning. I know you mentioned something about burning coal in one of your earlier posts, but if you're burning wood in that stove, don't use any of those upright pieces. This will drastically limit the amount and size of wood you can put in the stove. The side two and that front one is only for coal burning.

Best of luck,
Brandon

 

[ngzcaz]

Kind of late getting in on this thread but I also have a 264. Bought it new in 1987 for over $1,000 with the blower motor and tax. Its saved me many times that amount over the years. I still have the original cat on it and it still shows over 1,000 degrees. It certainly shouldn't be working after all this time but I can't explain why it still goes well over 1,000 degrees. I didn't have time to go over all of this thread but here is what I encountered over the years.

Never replaced the rope gasket, still in great shape.
Blower motor a must for heat distribution.
Chimney cleaning done yearly w/almost nothing in the cleanout.
Glass doors will smoke up with a slow fire.
Glass will clean up with a hot fire.
You can take out the cat and insert a perforated heavy steel plate.
I was told this was for coal burning since it was supposed to be a dual unit.

Important : this stove has caulk all over the place where the heat comes out of the 2 top wire mesh. This can leak over the years. Test your stove by smothering a small fire and seeing where/if smoke comes out of your stove. There are other areas that can leak as well. The stove can be taken apart and recaulked if you have a mind to.

Other than that, it has been a troublefree unit. I would suggest gradually increasing your fire when cold. It appears these are cast iron and can crack if heated quickly over the years.

I apologize if these points were already covered.

 

[bsearcey]

To ngzcaz.

Man that's an incredible run with your cat, from everything I've read about the longevity of them. You must have a good supply of seasoned wood. Another FA user, Raybonz, has had similar cat luck. Seasoned wood is one of his mantras. This is only my second year with the stove. My first year was a definite learning experience. I ended up cracking the cat burning unseasoned wood. This year my wood is perfectly seasoned and my cat looks great (still has the whitish ceramic look to it) after almost a month of burning.

I've been tempted to try and totally dismantle my stove and put it back together. I want to do this just to make sure all the seams are good and sealed. When I bought my stove, I have no doubt with the transport some of that 26 year old caulk probably did crack. I was able to replace some when I was first getting my stove in working condition, but I think it is due for a full work over. Maybe after this burn season is over.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Free Heat]

I know I've looked before but only just found this forum tonight.
I moved into this house 20 years ago with an old Federal Airtite installed as an insert. I have had it out to do some maintenance My ex used to abuse it terably with way to big and hot fires but never could id it beyond the brass Federal Airtite plate in the "sill" It's little more than a cast iron box it does have the tabs inside to hang a long lost grate it is made to be a free standing stove as well
It looks much like this one which is the closest pic I could find
http://www.pennwoodhomeandhearth.com/UsedEquipment/UsedEquip.html
It's about half way down on the right.
It does not have the box underneath, has solid doors no glass that have sliding brass plates that have vertical holes that cover matching holes in the cast iron doors and a simple rod attached to a damper in the flue for air control.
I plan to pull it again to service it after this season It's time and may have some stupid questions for you all

 

[bsearcey]

Hi FreeHeat.

Glad you found us. Give us a picture of your stove. Sounds like an unusual design. I never ran across any variations like that when I was researching my stove.