Felling or bucking more likely to result in injury?

[softdown]

Felling is more likely to result in serious injury but I constantly feel like bucking could easily snap a leg or squash a foot pretty bad. Felled logs constantly behave somewhat unpredictably.

Today I dropped a log on the edge of my foot/boot. I was able to cut enough of the log to make it roll off my foot but the discomfort doubled for a second as the log rolled. Thought I might be in real trouble for a second.

Got my attention enough to think about keeping a logOX in some type of backpack. Think I could be kind of strong with a log on my foot. Solo operator and that's just the way it is.

 

[jetsam]

Stand back and look before you cut (or do anything else that can cause a log to swing or fall). What will happen if I cut there?

If standing downhill is the problem, maybe look into a longer bar. I am happy to trade a little power for a little extra reach in a lot of situations. When you are standing on the high side, whatever is gonna happen is (usually) gonna happen away from you.

If uneven surfaces are the problem, always get it down first. Job one is to get all the wood on the ground where it's not going to hurt you; job two is to get it bucked into the lengths you want. Don't reverse 'em.

 

[softdown]

Stand back and look before you cut (or do anything else that can cause a log to swing or fall). What will happen if I cut there?

If standing downhill is the problem, maybe look into a longer bar. I am happy to trade a little power for a little extra reach in a lot of situations. When you are standing on the high side, whatever is gonna happen is (usually) gonna happen away from you.

If uneven surfaces are the problem, always get it down first. Job one is to get all the wood on the ground where it's not going to hurt you; job two is to get it bucked into the lengths you want. Don't reverse 'em.

Some good insights there. But I was arguing that it may be easier to get injured once the tree is on the ground while bucking it. The injuries may be more common but likely much less serious than a tree falling on somebody. Mostly just snapped legs and smashed/pinned feet and legs.

I have literally thousands and thousands of limbs to remove - all from pine trees on a slope. Many quite large pine trees. I called it a log - it could have been called a tree. No way to budge it without significant leverage.

The idea of a longer bar has merit but a larger saw creates arm fatigue - another safety issue. Cutting a few trees is miles apart from clearing acres.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

We used to say a tree is most dangerous once it's down... bucking properly is definitely an underrated skillset.

 

[softdown]

We used to say a tree is most dangerous once it's down... bucking properly is definitely an underrated skillset.

Agreed. The top and middle of the tree should be straight forward most of time. The bigger challenge lies with the limbs that keep the trunk off of the ground. When that tree falls and rolls - can be troublesome. Right now I am considering some type of jack to hold it in place. Too bad my best and biggest was stolen last December - all for a druggies next high.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

What good would a jack do? The goal is to get the stem on the ground. Just learn how to handle reaction wood, and be vigilant.

 

[softdown]

What good would a jack do? The goal is to get the stem on the ground. Just learn how to handle reaction wood, and be vigilant.

Like I said - to hold it in place. Having had a tree on my foot two days ago, I think a little caution is warranted. Excessive machismo is a big reason that logging holds its position in the dangerous jobs hierarchy.

 

[Philbert]

Excessive machismo is a big reason that logging holds its position in the dangerous jobs hierarchy.

Or this:

Solo operator and that's just the way it is.

Philbert

 

[oldfortyfive]

Pole saw is great for the limbs. Keeps you out of the mess.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Like I said - to hold it in place. Having had a tree on my foot two days ago, I think a little caution is warranted. Excessive machismo is a big reason that logging holds its position in the dangerous jobs hierarchy.

Actually, guys that work solo without being properly trained is a big reason that logging holds its position in the dangerous jobs industry. You are skipping steps and felling trees you haven't been even trained to buck up, working solo, and thinking some piece of equipment will make up for lack of training. Who has excessive machismo?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

And understand, we are trying to help you, but a jack will not solve your problems... the fact that your foot was where it shouldn't have been says this is more of a technique/body positioning/ training issue.

 

[softdown]

Or this:



Philbert

Pole saw is great for the limbs. Keeps you out of the mess.

Not doing 2000 2-6" limbs with a hand saw. On the other hand - using my Milwaukee pole saw has a lot of merit when things look sketchy. Used it for the first this afternoon - wasn't on my radar until now. I think the bar is 10" - slow going. But relatively safe!

All in all - sound idea.

 

[softdown]

Actually, guys that work solo without being properly trained is a big reason that logging holds its position in the dangerous jobs industry. You are skipping steps and felling trees you haven't been even trained to buck up, working solo, and thinking some piece of equipment will make up for lack of training. Who has excessive machismo?

Those guys are no more loggers than the guy with a fishing pole is in the dangerous job of fishing. I doubt their injuries are placed under the logging profession stats though I could be wrong.

 

[softdown]

I've been wanting to get a skid steer with mulcher for a long time. Just needed to sell a house first. Clearing acres of mountain land by yourself is just ridiculously risky. Have no intention or interest in doing more than this lot - in spite of offers.

Very, very few want to clear forest fire burned acreage. For one thing old dead trees can fall without warning - that risk grows every year after the fire.

Professional logging is best left to teams of younger men.

 

[Philbert]

On the other hand - using my Milwaukee pole saw has a lot of merit when things look sketchy. Used it for the first this afternoon - wasn't on my radar until now.

A lot of my cutting is storm damage cleanup. I prefer to use a Sawzall type tool, when trees are mixed in with building debris. I L-O-V-E my battery pole saws for reaching into sketchy piles of trees and removing branches / limbs, releasing tension, etc. As you note, most have limited power compared to even a modest, conventional chainsaw. Good to have a range of different tools and skills for different situations.

Philbert

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Those guys are no more loggers than the guy with a fishing pole is in the dangerous job of fishing. I doubt their injuries are placed under the logging profession stats though I could be wrong.

Oh good Lord, I was describing you... anyway, God bless, stay safe, and no, jacks are not the answer. Just learn from every tree and watch where you put your feet, lol

 

[oldfortyfive]

Not doing 2000 2-6" limbs with a hand saw. On the other hand - using my Milwaukee pole saw has a lot of merit when things look sketchy. Used it for the first this afternoon - wasn't on my radar until now. I think the bar is 10" - slow going. But relatively safe!

All in all - sound idea.

So far I've had to replace the pole on my Echo PAS system saw twice. When things are fallen, tangled and twisted it's a life saver. I probably use my poll saw as much for stuff on the ground as in the air. I really worry more about all the tripping hazards than anything else.

 

[Wow]

Agreed. The top and middle of the tree should be straight forward most of time. The bigger challenge lies with the limbs that keep the trunk off of the ground. When that tree falls and rolls - can be troublesome. Right now I am considering some type of jack to hold it in place. Too bad my best and biggest was stolen last December - all for a druggies next high.

For years I've carried a rope. When a tree is felled and those big limbs are holding it dangerously high when possible I snub it off with a good snub wrap and a release of nothing more than an Alpine Butterfly or Farmers knot. My technique is get the small stuff off and out of the way. I then cut what I call a knee on several of the big limbs on one side and start lowering from one side to the other and when it's a bit off the ground try to block it up and buck it up. I've seen a big pine roll and the big limb swing over all way across and that could kill a man. Once I was training some guys and demonstrated exactly that. Except I cut that swing limb shorter. Sure enough the tree did a quick roll and I was not hit but it was obvious the limb would have had it been longer. Once there was a leaner with sever lower limbs which I trimmed.
Sure enough as it was falling (a plunge cut and a back cut) the tree had center decay (not visible until it fell) and it twisted. The shortened limb whizzed past only inches away like a baseball bat. After a lot of years I've been very lucky. The worst ( as far back as I remember) was I'd dropped a huge tree and was bucking while standing in a huge thicket full of saw briers, dead limbs brush and black berry bushes. At one point the saw bar tip (36 inch bar big saw) pinched and kicked straight back like a mule. I was young and strong and held on for dear life. I was standing and the back of the saw slammed straight into my gut. Still holding the saw but off the gas I flew backwards while realizing I didn't want a saw in my lap still holding it straight up with both hands. No way to catch myself and down into the brush I went flat of my back. I got scratched up pretty good but was still holding the saw and finally killed it set it aside and managed to get up. Sticks stuck into me. Scratched up good by briers etc. I was near home so I took the day off and had a lady friend clean my back with salt water and pick splinters and stickers out. Yep had some "there" too. Was a few days before I got over that.

 

[rarefish383]

I'm not pointing fingers. I think this old story is what Jolly is kind of getting at. I think I saw it here 15-20 years ago. A renowned hand surgeon was killed in a freak accident on his 30 acre estate. He was an "EXPERT" at felling trees. He had been doing it for 30 years on his estate. Every news video called him an expert, every news paper article called him an expert. After watching the video's and reading the articles, I figured he was an expert at re-attaching hands, and didn't know squat about felling trees. He dropped one on himself and expired. He worked by himself at home. Who knows how many he took down using bad methods, with no one to show him the proper way. I work by myself and have given much thought to reconsider the practice. A little difference between me and some new guy to the trade is, I actually had a license when I was in business. There is an old saying that most accidents are by new people that don't know better, and old guy that know better, but get complacent. I have permission to cut standing dead wood on 3 farms. The farm hands can skid logs out to a landing for me, and load the wood on my trailer. I put a tag line in every tree I throw, even if it has a definite lean in the direction I want it to go. I've seen hollow trees break off at the hinge. I've seen a little limb that you would think would just break off, hang in the tree next to it and spin the whole tree 30 degrees off the point of throw. My Dad used to say, "Do as I say, not as I do". If you are by your self, the only advice you have is yours, and if you are not trained, schooled, educated, EXPIERENCED, it might be real bad advice.

 

[rarefish383]

I'm sorry, the way the question is worded is plucking at me. Neither is overly dangerous if you know what you are doing, if you haven't a clue, they are both dangerous. I just don't see why an experienced guy would ask the question, and I don't see why a newbie would ask a potentially dangerous question of a bunch of guys on line. I quit following the home owners helper thread because there are a half dozen or so guys that really know what they are doing. Then you get a guy that's only been using his Craftsman chainsaw for a month, answering potentially dangerous questions, with really stupid advice, and his advice is just as viable as the pro. The problem with asking advice here, is guys are going to answer assuming, you have equipment as good as theirs, that's as sharp as theirs, with out actually knowing the OP. If the OP posts a pic and I say, "Just make a deep notch and follow with a fast back cut." Turns out the OP has a dull MS 290 with an 18" bar, and I'm using my MS 660 with a 36" bar that I just sharpened razor sharp. Too many variables to safely give advice on line.