EastwoodGang4
ArboristSite Operative
I am interested in the proper use of felling wedges. More specifically when and when NOT to use them, and also different techniques. Are wooden wedges OK or are the plastic ones better?
Felling Wedges
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ShoerFast
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Welcome to AS
I like wooden wedges, but more because you can cut them in the field from a standing sapling , some of the best are made from Scrub Oak. You can use a steel wedge if your careful, just make an extra cut about 3/4 - 1" below your final cut so the steel wedge is forcing wood into the kreft and not exposing steel to the chain.
Dent has a very good book on felling, Baileys will sell you a copy. If you don't need directional felling, most trees have a direction that they want to go, to me most of the time there is no need to be cool, just drop it at least within 45 deg or less from were it wants to go.
There is a ton of experience here, most of the directional felling I have ever done was just to make less work, but there is a real satisfaction when they drop on the nutz-perfect.
Edit: any wedge can pop back out on you , steel espicialy!
I like wooden wedges, but more because you can cut them in the field from a standing sapling , some of the best are made from Scrub Oak. You can use a steel wedge if your careful, just make an extra cut about 3/4 - 1" below your final cut so the steel wedge is forcing wood into the kreft and not exposing steel to the chain.
Dent has a very good book on felling, Baileys will sell you a copy. If you don't need directional felling, most trees have a direction that they want to go, to me most of the time there is no need to be cool, just drop it at least within 45 deg or less from were it wants to go.
There is a ton of experience here, most of the directional felling I have ever done was just to make less work, but there is a real satisfaction when they drop on the nutz-perfect.
Edit: any wedge can pop back out on you , steel espicialy!
fishhuntcutwood
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EastwoodGang4 said:
There's never a time to not use them. Even the straightest tree can sit back on you. Wind, biomass balance, bad wood, anything can make a tree do strange things. Wedges help keep the advantage on your side.
Welcome to AS.
Jeff
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SmokinDodge
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EastwoodGang4 said:
Welcome to AS. The best thing you can do is go to Bailey's (There is a button on top of this screen) and order Douglas Dent's book on falling and a couple of plastic wedges (the green ones are about $3). Total bill won't be over $25 and the knowledge you will gain will be immense. Wedges are the best thing since sliced bread when wood cutting.
ShoerFast
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ironpig70 said:
Plastic is fairly chain friendly, my wooden wedges are an after thought usually, as FishHuntCutwood mentions, it's the strange things happen idea, I end up making them at the last second, like when you realize that you just moved the truck, with the pail full of wedges down the hill. There fun to cut, if you plan out your 3 cuts it maybe takes 10 seconds to cut a wedge from a sapling, the biggest mistake I make is making them to thick.
squisher
ArboristSite Operative
welcome to AS. Like FishHuntCutwood says you can't go wrong setting a wedge even if you think it's a no brainer espescially when you're just starting out. Nothing is worse then having that bastard sit back on ya, even if you manage to get your saw out you're usually screwed. I would highly recommend getting the plastic wedges, I logged for a number of years and never had one pop and I often had to wedge some hard leaners that were unused spars to fall them towards were we could reach them with the yarder. I've had three sets of stacked wedges sunk into trees before to get them over, it's amazing what you can do with them.
Also if you're just starting to fall trees (which I'm assuming from your question) then I would strongly recommend researching some of the safety issues that you're going to be up against. Wedges aside it can be very dangerous. And aside from getting books or reading I would try to find somebody with experience that can give you hands on advice.
Also if you're just starting to fall trees (which I'm assuming from your question) then I would strongly recommend researching some of the safety issues that you're going to be up against. Wedges aside it can be very dangerous. And aside from getting books or reading I would try to find somebody with experience that can give you hands on advice.
Freakingstang
Doctor Freakinstein
squisher said:
Good post. It is informative posts like that, that make this place a joy to hang out and have people helping others out with information.
Just remember, stay safe and pay attention to what is going on around you. Don't stand directly behind a wedge when driving it. They don't pop a lot (at least in my experience) but if they do you don't want to be caught by surprise.
Ed*L
ArboristSite Guru
Welcome to AS.
Lots of good advise/info in here.
I use the plastic wedges, never had any problems with them kicking out. Just remember to thake something along (axe) to drive them with. DAMHIKT.
They are also invaluable for bucking a log, Drive one in the top of the cut to keep the log from pinching your saw.
Ed
Lots of good advise/info in here.
I use the plastic wedges, never had any problems with them kicking out. Just remember to thake something along (axe) to drive them with. DAMHIKT.
They are also invaluable for bucking a log, Drive one in the top of the cut to keep the log from pinching your saw.
Ed
Wedges can help serve forward, steer, backup a rope pull, help in bucking etc.
A wedge takes the hammer weight and speed and multiplies it by the wedge's leveraging forces. This is the length of it's ramp divided by it's height; less some for friction and openness of the kerf (taller kerf losing leverage ramping distance etc.). Then the upwards lift of the tree by wedge to place forward tree forward is a rotation on the hinge/ not an inline push forward. So this has leverage multiplier too. So the wedge leverage is multiplied by distance /angle wedge sedge is applied from compressed/ pivot part of hinge.
i don't believe in a slanted backcut; especially if wedging. Because the equal and opposite reaction to the push up/ forward is a push down/ backwards. In a slanted backcut the reactive push back/down doesn't serve directly down into the column of the stump; but across inviting failure. Also, it pushes the tree more directly forward, and less up to rotate/ leverage on the hinge(so wedge leverage direction is more inline to serving tree forward/ less leveraged angle of effort; so is faster/ weaker application of wedge force); thus takes more pressure from wedge; with the weaker 'backstop' mentioned in previous sentence to push this more force off of. The increased force needed; is fortified with less back pressure!
i think we use a rope pull or wedge push to mostly force a stronger hinge. The hinge being just a reactive/ responding/ matching force of the forces on it. So, an additional push and or pull; fakes out the hinge like the tree is heavier, and makes a healthier/ thicker hinge in reponse. Then, we relieve the extra push/ pull after forcing healthier hinge; so only the increasing tree leverage is on the hinge; not the additional "fake" loading. A fault with a line is that we can keep pulling past the point that the tree will travel on it's own; but a wedge push stops as tree first lifts off of it. So a wedge can more likely self manage just forcing a hinge stronger, then not loading the hinge more after strength is forced. i think of the time that a hinge starts to fold as "First Folding". Added forces before First Folding just lie in wait, Added forces at First Folding force the hinge stronger; added forces after FF make the hinge 'weaker'/ increase the load a now set hinge strength must carry. This (forcing after FF) is similar to cutting too much backcut after the tree will fall on own; we are taking away from the possible strength/ control in hinge. Sometimes, FF can be an extended range; whereby tree starts to move, but still must be urged; the weakening is after the tree will travel on it's own. Another fault would be crossed facecuts/ dutching in the face that we must push or pull thru/ cut more; or jsut run away from/ don't get in that situation!
Sideleans- Direction of our applied force is very important as any other direction of force. Direction is all ways an important component of force; just like the amount of leverage, initial force etc. is. This is illustrated best perhaps; by the fact that without direction; there is no force! Only force can overcome distance/ any force must try to overcome distance; so must have direction it seeks from present position. In good wood/ hinge; i think push/pull added that serves directly into squared/ gunned face forces a stronger hinge. The stronger hinge then leverages that force input (your wedge/ rope push/ pull) higher; to steer better automatically. But push/pull direction to correct sidelean(not into gunned/ squared face of hinge) unloads the hinge/ so it is not as strong; as you take over a portion of the steering load yourself; so is not running your push/pull force through the final multiplier of the hinge. A tapered hinge further amplifies/ multiplies this effect; more than a standard "strip" hinge. In not so good wood/ hinge; you must correct some sidelean more directly/ yourself; without running it all through the hinge; by pulling sideways against lean, not squarely into the gunned face of the hinge. But, using a sideways push/pull in good wood/ hinge is just sweating to replace what the hinge would do automatically and with more leveraged power multiplier IMLHO.
Dent's book is about the best 15 bucks you can spend for 30+ years now. It will cover dutch, crossed face cuts, tapered hinge, wedge, safety etc. with the wisdom of 3+ generations of loggers. The models can be taken into a tree rigging and dropping and still work at all angles; even in reverse for lifting up rather than pivoting down etc. Some guys even take small wedge into tree to force limb's hinge stronger or pop a block over. i prefer a semi trailer tire spoon as prybar in place of wedge. It is strong and the flat spoon fits into kerf nicely; pushing up against limb as the opposite hand pushes down on bar gives a 2/1:2Handing effect for your efforts! As it captures both your effort on bar and it's equal and opposite to roll target forward!
Orrrr something like that
Looks like it is that time again....:taped:
A wedge takes the hammer weight and speed and multiplies it by the wedge's leveraging forces. This is the length of it's ramp divided by it's height; less some for friction and openness of the kerf (taller kerf losing leverage ramping distance etc.). Then the upwards lift of the tree by wedge to place forward tree forward is a rotation on the hinge/ not an inline push forward. So this has leverage multiplier too. So the wedge leverage is multiplied by distance /angle wedge sedge is applied from compressed/ pivot part of hinge.
i don't believe in a slanted backcut; especially if wedging. Because the equal and opposite reaction to the push up/ forward is a push down/ backwards. In a slanted backcut the reactive push back/down doesn't serve directly down into the column of the stump; but across inviting failure. Also, it pushes the tree more directly forward, and less up to rotate/ leverage on the hinge(so wedge leverage direction is more inline to serving tree forward/ less leveraged angle of effort; so is faster/ weaker application of wedge force); thus takes more pressure from wedge; with the weaker 'backstop' mentioned in previous sentence to push this more force off of. The increased force needed; is fortified with less back pressure!
i think we use a rope pull or wedge push to mostly force a stronger hinge. The hinge being just a reactive/ responding/ matching force of the forces on it. So, an additional push and or pull; fakes out the hinge like the tree is heavier, and makes a healthier/ thicker hinge in reponse. Then, we relieve the extra push/ pull after forcing healthier hinge; so only the increasing tree leverage is on the hinge; not the additional "fake" loading. A fault with a line is that we can keep pulling past the point that the tree will travel on it's own; but a wedge push stops as tree first lifts off of it. So a wedge can more likely self manage just forcing a hinge stronger, then not loading the hinge more after strength is forced. i think of the time that a hinge starts to fold as "First Folding". Added forces before First Folding just lie in wait, Added forces at First Folding force the hinge stronger; added forces after FF make the hinge 'weaker'/ increase the load a now set hinge strength must carry. This (forcing after FF) is similar to cutting too much backcut after the tree will fall on own; we are taking away from the possible strength/ control in hinge. Sometimes, FF can be an extended range; whereby tree starts to move, but still must be urged; the weakening is after the tree will travel on it's own. Another fault would be crossed facecuts/ dutching in the face that we must push or pull thru/ cut more; or jsut run away from/ don't get in that situation!
Sideleans- Direction of our applied force is very important as any other direction of force. Direction is all ways an important component of force; just like the amount of leverage, initial force etc. is. This is illustrated best perhaps; by the fact that without direction; there is no force! Only force can overcome distance/ any force must try to overcome distance; so must have direction it seeks from present position. In good wood/ hinge; i think push/pull added that serves directly into squared/ gunned face forces a stronger hinge. The stronger hinge then leverages that force input (your wedge/ rope push/ pull) higher; to steer better automatically. But push/pull direction to correct sidelean(not into gunned/ squared face of hinge) unloads the hinge/ so it is not as strong; as you take over a portion of the steering load yourself; so is not running your push/pull force through the final multiplier of the hinge. A tapered hinge further amplifies/ multiplies this effect; more than a standard "strip" hinge. In not so good wood/ hinge; you must correct some sidelean more directly/ yourself; without running it all through the hinge; by pulling sideways against lean, not squarely into the gunned face of the hinge. But, using a sideways push/pull in good wood/ hinge is just sweating to replace what the hinge would do automatically and with more leveraged power multiplier IMLHO.
Dent's book is about the best 15 bucks you can spend for 30+ years now. It will cover dutch, crossed face cuts, tapered hinge, wedge, safety etc. with the wisdom of 3+ generations of loggers. The models can be taken into a tree rigging and dropping and still work at all angles; even in reverse for lifting up rather than pivoting down etc. Some guys even take small wedge into tree to force limb's hinge stronger or pop a block over. i prefer a semi trailer tire spoon as prybar in place of wedge. It is strong and the flat spoon fits into kerf nicely; pushing up against limb as the opposite hand pushes down on bar gives a 2/1:2Handing effect for your efforts! As it captures both your effort on bar and it's equal and opposite to roll target forward!
Orrrr something like that
Looks like it is that time again....:taped:
Last edited:
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
some wedge thoughts
I’m going to suggest that there are instance where a cutter does not want to use a wedge. The most obvious would be on a heavy leaner. That could cause a barber chair event.
A couple thoughts on how having a few tricks in your wedging knowledge toolbox can really help.
1) Carry and occasionally use a metal wedge. It will drive and convert a lean more powerfully than any plastic wedge. You do have to have the discipline to keep your chain away from your wedge. But you absolutely should be doing that anyway.
2) Have two types of plastic wedges. Soft ones work well in cold weather. Hard ones that break easily in the cold work well on warmer days.
3) spend a little more and get some plastic wedges that have a metal reinforcement on their butt, they'll last a fair bit longer. {Baileys, a sponsor listed on the banner above, has them}
4) When stacking wedges, don't put them directly on top of each other. They will drive easier and in some cases it’s the only way they'll continue to lift if you angle them about 70 degrees. When lifting like this, the decreased friction from less contact aids significantly.
I’m going to suggest that there are instance where a cutter does not want to use a wedge. The most obvious would be on a heavy leaner. That could cause a barber chair event.
A couple thoughts on how having a few tricks in your wedging knowledge toolbox can really help.
1) Carry and occasionally use a metal wedge. It will drive and convert a lean more powerfully than any plastic wedge. You do have to have the discipline to keep your chain away from your wedge. But you absolutely should be doing that anyway.
2) Have two types of plastic wedges. Soft ones work well in cold weather. Hard ones that break easily in the cold work well on warmer days.
3) spend a little more and get some plastic wedges that have a metal reinforcement on their butt, they'll last a fair bit longer. {Baileys, a sponsor listed on the banner above, has them}
4) When stacking wedges, don't put them directly on top of each other. They will drive easier and in some cases it’s the only way they'll continue to lift if you angle them about 70 degrees. When lifting like this, the decreased friction from less contact aids significantly.
squisher
ArboristSite Operative
I agree with the heavy leaner. If you're going to be bore cutting and setting up a "trigger" you definetly want someone with hands on experience guiding you through it the first few times. Beware the heavy leaners. Can't stress enough felling trees is not something that you want to learn on your own. Trial and error is not a theory to be operating on with tree cutting.
Interesting with the stacking wedges Smokechase. Do you do this to drive a second wedge in on top or underneath of one that's already set? When I've stacked wedges it's when I've already sunk one and it's not going over so then I'll pound two in together to get more leverage but I've never offset them before.
Interesting with the stacking wedges Smokechase. Do you do this to drive a second wedge in on top or underneath of one that's already set? When I've stacked wedges it's when I've already sunk one and it's not going over so then I'll pound two in together to get more leverage but I've never offset them before.
Sprig
Addicted to ArboristSite
Great advice above^^^ I have just a bit to add to what smokechase said about cold weather wedging and plastic, beware of splintering and shrapnel (with metal ones too for that matter, you'll want to keep them de-burred), wear your safety glasses! Also beware of the plastic ones if they are old and have been exposed to a lot of sun, they are not UV protected and will get brittle with age, toss em out! I speak from experience as I have had them literally explode on me. Wood ones are great, chain friendly too, plastic and aluminum aren't that bad, steel as you can guess will make very short work of your nice sharp chain. Work safe, learn whatever you can and have fun (oh and welcome too).
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Great thread guys.
Smokechaser, That's interesting about staggering stacked wedges, makes sense. I was originally planning to get a few of Bailey's "rifled" wedges so they would "key in" to the wood and to each other when driving, but maybe that's not the way to go if you want to stagger/offset them, huh?
I can also see having a bucket or a stack of nice wooden ones handy...I've got some nice white oak out back now, think I'll cut me a few of them!
Smokechaser, That's interesting about staggering stacked wedges, makes sense. I was originally planning to get a few of Bailey's "rifled" wedges so they would "key in" to the wood and to each other when driving, but maybe that's not the way to go if you want to stagger/offset them, huh?
I can also see having a bucket or a stack of nice wooden ones handy...I've got some nice white oak out back now, think I'll cut me a few of them!
SawTroll
Information Collector
Perfect post, and steright to the point, again.......:rockn:fishhuntcutwood said:
Even though my trees are much smaller than Jeffs, I allways bring wedges, and use them often, even when I "know" that they are not actually needed - as a safety precaution.
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Sprig
Addicted to ArboristSite
Excellent sawtroll, too many people head to the woodlot without them. I'd truly love to have a few oak wedges kicking around. I don't know about staggering them but I have often wedged from two or three points to prevent balancing issues (as opposed to using one lift point guessin' where the centre of balance is), they can be of great asset in controlling a fall and it takes so little time to be safe imho. As for stacking them in general, I have always found it is easier and safer to use slight angles than, um say 15 degrees, I'd rather use eight 5 degree wedges stacked than 2 20's, maybe its just me, but the ease of lift and safety factor just makes me think that a little of a lot does the same thing and brings more surface area into the equation. I stand to be corrected as always
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is good, when they sit back it sucks, all because you forgot to place a wedge. You can take an axe and cut down above your backcut and get a wedge started, but its no fun. I misjudged the lean of a cottonwood (talk about weak holding wood) and it sat back, powerlines and road side. If you have to use the axe trick, its cause you didn't work safe, only heavy leaners that you want to lay down the way they lean don't need wedges. And you always need at least three, two are useless if you have to stack. I have used steel wedges, but they are banned for a reason.squisher said:
EastwoodGang4
ArboristSite Operative
Wow, Fellas I am really impressed with the flood of fantastic advice!! This site is great, after reading thru all of the posts I'll definatley keep the wedges next to the saw wherever I go! By the way I have been using wooden oak wedges that started out life as a surveyor's elevation hub. Being in the earthmoving/sewer install business, they are quite plentifull after the surveyors have left. They are about 8 in long 2 in wide and taper from 1/4 in to 2in at the top. if you can picture that. they seem to have worked well the times that i have used them. I'd like to try the plastic ones too but i'm cheap so they'll have to wait until my B-day. Again thank you for all the great advice!!!
Husky372
ArboristSite Guru
Instead of an axe when tree sits back, you can use tip of bar (unless pinched) to go in just enough to start wedge.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
wedge stacking
"Do you do this to drive a second wedge in on top or underneath of one that's already set?"
I haven't done a lot of the bore below the first wedge and then insert a second. So I'll keep my mouth shut due to lack of experience with that technique.
Stacking is usually accomplished by driving a single wedge(s), then as they get close to their butts, stacking others to get the additional lift needed.
You can see how planning your wedge use and placement could be important.
Most fallers teach that you need to pack at least three wedges. Part of this thought process is that you can often be driving two single wedges side by side, (they work together - go back and forth between them), then get to a limit of their use and pull out that third wedge and double it with one of the singles.
A related thought is that if you've got a buddy driving wedges for you. Stop cutting. Let him/her place or hit, then start cutting again.
Another consideration. On hazard trees the vibration of a solid wedge strike can be the sponsor of loosening a limb above. You might want to say no or adopt a strategy of safety. Look up after every wedge hit. Adds time but saves on vertebrae and spleens. Being able to switch hit wedges from either side is another skill needed. Either for the chance to limit exposure by being on the safer side of the tree or for those times when on a slope and you have to drive from the uphill.
{An unobstructed object falls from 50 feet in less than two seconds and hits the ground at 40 miles per hour. A limb with plenty of leaves is obstructed, wind resistence will create a slower terminal velocity for it.}
Tek9Tim had a nice post a few months ago where he talked about the timing of hitting a wedge. The tree can get a back and forth swing going and if you're hammering the wedges when it is on the return stroke you are not only wasting your time but probably mushrooming the wedge butts.
Another good reason to look up, get a feel for the trees movement and when to wedge.
"Do you do this to drive a second wedge in on top or underneath of one that's already set?"
I haven't done a lot of the bore below the first wedge and then insert a second. So I'll keep my mouth shut due to lack of experience with that technique.
Stacking is usually accomplished by driving a single wedge(s), then as they get close to their butts, stacking others to get the additional lift needed.
You can see how planning your wedge use and placement could be important.
Most fallers teach that you need to pack at least three wedges. Part of this thought process is that you can often be driving two single wedges side by side, (they work together - go back and forth between them), then get to a limit of their use and pull out that third wedge and double it with one of the singles.
A related thought is that if you've got a buddy driving wedges for you. Stop cutting. Let him/her place or hit, then start cutting again.
Another consideration. On hazard trees the vibration of a solid wedge strike can be the sponsor of loosening a limb above. You might want to say no or adopt a strategy of safety. Look up after every wedge hit. Adds time but saves on vertebrae and spleens. Being able to switch hit wedges from either side is another skill needed. Either for the chance to limit exposure by being on the safer side of the tree or for those times when on a slope and you have to drive from the uphill.
{An unobstructed object falls from 50 feet in less than two seconds and hits the ground at 40 miles per hour. A limb with plenty of leaves is obstructed, wind resistence will create a slower terminal velocity for it.}
Tek9Tim had a nice post a few months ago where he talked about the timing of hitting a wedge. The tree can get a back and forth swing going and if you're hammering the wedges when it is on the return stroke you are not only wasting your time but probably mushrooming the wedge butts.
Another good reason to look up, get a feel for the trees movement and when to wedge.
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