Fire Salvage, The Usual Woes

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Controversy over logging hazard trees. Everybody is an expert, except for the experts. Note the word "extraction" which is now used to make timber harvest sound more dire. I noticed that term appeared about 5 years ago in enviro pleas for money.

Fire Salvage
these sorts of objectified articles make me want to smash stuff.

its salvage, the trees are already dead but they don't mention that do they.
 
these sorts of objectified articles make me want to smash stuff.

its salvage, the trees are already dead but they don't mention that do they.
What I found "amusing" was the mentioning of the burned to the ground cabin and then the lease holder complaining about trees (snags) being logged. What are they thinking? That the trees will miraculously come back to life? Or the snag will stand forever and not topple over onto someone or something? It is smash worthy.
 
That's one of the few things I don't miss about logging. Burn salvage. It seemed like every year we did more and more of it. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out a way to mount a Visine bottle on my hard hat with little hoses running down to my eyes and glasses...kinda like windshield wipers on a car. Never did get it rigged up right. It was nice though if I missed the mark on a buck to be able to blame the short log on blindness.
We got some good wood out of those trees and leaving them to rot seems like such a waste. Visitors to the woods don't know. It's up to those of you still in the business to educate them. If you can.
 
The problem with allowing forests to recover "naturally" after catastrophic fire these days is that climate change, invasive disease and insects, and longer summers have altered the natural conditions.

Several landscapes in southern Oregon burned over by catastrophic fire in the early 2000's and allowed to recover naturally are already hosting catastrophic fires again. Whether you like it or not, we've reached a point where we have to manage the landscape.
 
The property I do the most work on was clear cut around 1915. After the harvest the ground was walked away from as it had no value. The harvest was primarily redwoods with D-fir when it was advantageous. Like a stand killing fire what grew back were the fast growing weedy trees, in this case tanoak, madrone, and to a lesser extent bay laurel. There was also a spotting of oaks.

We (the logging community, the County, and land owners/managers) are constantly fighting the protesters, mostly college or post retirement age residents and non residents. They claim Mother Nature will heal the land as long a man is kept out. (You can tell when a protest is planned from all the people wear tie-dye and dreadlocks. And from the smell.) The RPFs are suddenly the bad guys.

While our property did not burn in the CZU Lightning Complex, 86K acres, we were two miles away. We speak with neighbors who fight to get a permit to salvage log. This is after Cal Fire has issued an order to remove the trees. SNAFU.
 
There's a small bit of ground down in the sagebrush along the highway that must have a bit more moisture. It has a grove of pretty tough, older Ponderosa Pines. I've watched them through the years. Fires have frequently burned through them, and most survived.

The Labor Day fire storm was too much. Even though frequent fires had kept the brush down, it looks like most of the trees are a goner. Don't know if they'll get cut down, it is tribal land. It is sad to see.
 
The property I do the most work on was clear cut around 1915. After the harvest the ground was walked away from as it had no value. The harvest was primarily redwoods with D-fir when it was advantageous. Like a stand killing fire what grew back were the fast growing weedy trees, in this case tanoak, madrone, and to a lesser extent bay laurel. There was also a spotting of oaks.

We (the logging community, the County, and land owners/managers) are constantly fighting the protesters, mostly college or post retirement age residents and non residents. They claim Mother Nature will heal the land as long a man is kept out. (You can tell when a protest is planned from all the people wear tie-dye and dreadlocks. And from the smell.) The RPFs are suddenly the bad guys.

While our property did not burn in the CZU Lightning Complex, 86K acres, we were two miles away. We speak with neighbors who fight to get a permit to salvage log. This is after Cal Fire has issued an order to remove the trees. SNAFU.

You call madrone a weed while revereing Doug Fir.....

Was Council Madrone a weed?


I'm going to hope it's just your area's ecosystem, because here the firs are the weeds, as well as the cedars and plants pines' babies. While I like old growth tan oak, I can accept their weedy-youngins bad behaviors.


Just FYI, both tan oak and madrone can be made into flooring or beams. Seen some nice madrone poles for support posts/beams in houses.


Regarding forest salvage, how about when USFS backburns tens of thousands of acres unnecessarily so they can go in and punch roads and salvage log tree that would not have burnt from the wildfire itself? (August Complex North and West)

How about when salvage loggers log a subdivision then leave the logs on the ground and refuse to remove them, leaving it up to the owners and at their own expense?



Many, many sides to this story.
 
I'd also be curious to know how you perceive long-hairs/dreadies and hipnecks when they are working a fire line, saving someone's home, doing logging or fuel reduction work, or milling someone out the wood for a client to build their buildings.

Thanks
 
2dogs, feel free to respond to my first post. It's obvious you have nothing but a hypocritical or evasive reply to my second post

You confuse passion for trolling.
 
You call madrone a weed while revereing Doug Fir.....

Was Council Madrone a weed?


I'm going to hope it's just your area's ecosystem, because here the firs are the weeds, as well as the cedars and plants pines' babies. While I like old growth tan oak, I can accept their weedy-youngins bad behaviors.


Just FYI, both tan oak and madrone can be made into flooring or beams. Seen some nice madrone poles for support posts/beams in houses.


Regarding forest salvage, how about when USFS backburns tens of thousands of acres unnecessarily so they can go in and punch roads and salvage log tree that would not have burnt from the wildfire itself? (August Complex North and West)

How about when salvage loggers log a subdivision then leave the logs on the ground and refuse to remove them, leaving it up to the owners and at their own expense?



Many, many sides to this story.
ahwight, I'll throw the troll a bone.

You say Doug Fir is a weed? Yet it valuable in most of the world, not just the PNW or I ass-u-me South Humboldt county as your handle implies, where infact it is commercially logged, its just not as common as redwoods, cedars or the relatively valueless sugar pines.

As for Madrone being a weed, ya it pretty much is, grows all over the coast around here, yet there is literally 0 comercial mills that accept it, including NW hardwoods. Furthermore I've never seen it as an option for any sort of building material, let alone a specialty wood for crazy people. Which I include myself in cause I'm trying to source some now for a guitar project, yet its a whole bunch of swinging and missing.

As for the rest of your post, maybe change your point of view, I highly doubt the FS back burned "10's of thousands of acres" just so they could salvage log it, since its a massive PITA to get a salvage logging go ahead through the legal mine field that is logging FS ground, let alone the legal backlash they would face for intentionally burning said acreage in the first place.

For logging and leaving the logs, couple of things could be happening here, trucking isn't some magical snap your fingers and its done, there is a limited amount of trucks, and a limited amount of mills available to haul logs, could be them logs are just waiting to get hauled, or the homeowner was asked to schedule a self loader, which is an even smaller resource. Or because of all the fire salvage, the mills available have put quota's on how much wood they can accept in a day, and these private plots end up taking a back seat. Or the logs are garbage, for multiple reasons, rot, fire damage, to small, too crooked, diseased etc, that its simply not worth hauling them, so the safe thing to do, in all scenarios is to stack up the dangerous trees where they can't do much harm and either they become fire wood, or they rot in peace, cause if left standing, the will dry out, and burn that much hotter in the next fire.
 
as for hair styles... I cut it every 2 years when it gets tangled in my spenders, or singed on the muffler of my saws...
So I guess I SIR AM A HIPNECK...

Dreadlocks on white people to be exact are ******* ridiculous and a sign of terrible hygiene and appropriation, take a gawd damned shower fer fecks sake, and stop listening to regea cause you think you're a Rasta man from the slums of trenchtown, you ain't, your just a dumb idealistic kid that needs to get to work, and stop living off your parents retirement funds.

To be absolutely clear, for dreads to be dreads, you have to have the right type of hair for it, and if you're of European or Asian descent, its highly unlikely, so therefore, what you get is dirt filled matted wads of hair goo, that only you think looks good, the rest of us think you look like a moron and need a shower.
 
Thanks for taking the time to type out and share your opinions and views, as opposed to making a single line quip with no substance.


Briefly, there is one or more lawsuits either being filed or already filed against USFS for their actions and subsequent lack of actions during the August Complex. I'm anxiously waiting more details.


While I hear you on the hair issue, my point is this industry loses a lot of good workers before they have a chance to get on because of ridiculous social ideas and ideals, as opposed to letting someone's work and worth be proved, they are judged and cast aside based on physical appearance. Same for all the face tat fellers. Not my cup of tea, but damn some of those guys and gals are skilled, trustworthy laborers.
 
as for lawsuits and the USFS, if a FS forester sneezes in ear shot of a Lawyer, they get sued, so don't put much stock in any new lawsuits.

I have to disagree with you on folks appearance, takes all sorts anymore. Granted some of the old fellers i.e. boomers can be a PITA but if they are worth their own weight they will shut up and get to work along side about anyone.

The difference is that many, not all, dreadheadhippiedippie types tend to also be lazy or weak, not accustomed to hard work and harsh words, so they wash out and blame the rednecks for not accepting them. I know at least 2-3 dreadhed dudes that work circles around most, cheerfully too, but I know a **** load more that would rather stay home and smoke pot, show up long enough to pay the rent and call it a week.
Granted the same can be said about every outward appearance, I'm particularly warry of hill billies, "cowboys" (assholes in cowboy hats and **** kickers that have never seen dirt let alone pasture) and anyone wearing a suit, Though I'm open minded enough to give them a fair chance, I just keep an eye on em the first few weeks.
 
Salvage logging here means grinding up all the garbage trees like madrone, tanoak, etc and D-fir. Redwood has value. Nothing else does and the rules require grinding. The mills are full of redwood and diesel is $4.00/gallon.

Sorry angrytroll but that is the way it is.

Matt you are correct about the hippies not liking work. Meth heads are better workers but don't stick around long. Mexicans are good workers and are hungry for a job. With Newsom letting out 76,000 inmates there will be lots of men who can work. Too bad he wants to eliminate inmate hand crews. Scorched Earth Newsom.
 
... I'm particularly warry of hill billies, "cowboys" (...) and anyone wearing a suit, Though I'm open minded enough to give them a fair chance, I just keep an eye on em the first few weeks.
A little introspection, hillbilly - lived in East Tennessee for the last 47 years; cowboy ("cattleman" was the preferred term in my upbringing) - spent the previous 18 under the eyes of a Florida Cracker; suit - typically wore one 5 or more days a week for almost 42 years. Sure glad you are open minded or I wouldn't be caught trespassing over here.

Ron
 
A little introspection, hillbilly - lived in East Tennessee for the last 47 years; cowboy ("cattleman" was the preferred term in my upbringing) - spent the previous 18 under the eyes of a Florida Cracker; suit - typically wore one 5 or more days a week for almost 42 years. Sure glad you are open minded or I wouldn't be caught trespassing over here.

Ron
So you are an intolerant snowflake? Just asking.
 
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