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Government BS. They close roads, don't allow access for firewood harvesting or logging so many places. They have mass quantities of fuel, cubic miles of the stuff, sit there and die, then you have constant forest fires. They could use all this dry dead wood in coal burning electrical plants with some modifications. They could set up via tax incentives, cost them not a penny of taxpayer money, mass biochar facilities, allowing entrepeneurs to put a lot more people back to work, and provide low cost long term great farmland subsoil fertilizer, any number of things. But nope, just let it accumulate and then catch fire, then cobjob and lowball any response because all the major taxpayer loot goes to fight wall street wars of aquisition and other sorts of obvious corporate welfare.

Freaking EPA forces manufacturers to ship two stroke tools with carbs that are guaranteed to destroy that tool without modifications that most people don't know about, yet let all these western lands burn up year after year after decade after genertation, billions of tons of smoke/particles/gasses into the atmosphere, with nothing to show for it, except for expense and forcing unnecessary danger on the guys tasked with fighting these fires!

Ya'all remember some years back they let those firefighters burn up because they wouldn't allow the tanker helos to suck water from a stream with some endangered minnow?

That's the government people are working for. I wouldn't do it, not with policies like that.

If you ain't a globalist fatcat, you ain't squat to them people. They don't care.

I am not anti government at all, but I am for sure anti stupid bloated wasteful criminal crooked corrupt riddled with junk science and crony fatcat welfare brand government.

OK, what is your plan? Lodgepole pine lives about 80 years, and then it attracts beetles, which kill the tree, then lightning hits the tree, a fire starts, and it burns up. The cones need heat to open up and disperse seed. Then the lodgepole cycle starts all over. That's how nature has been growing that particular tree for centuries.

We don't have the facilities--mills or pellet plants or anything else in much of the west anymore. Who would build the new mills? Most private investors are too smart to invest in a business that relies on timber off federal lands. They've been burned by shutdowns, forest planning, lawsuits and even fires.
The forests are governed by whatever political parties are in charge. Not by foresters.

I closed roads. It was in the contract to tear up and close those roads. We couldn't allow firewood cutting while the timber sale was going, unless the timber sale buyer agreed to it. Agreeing to let folks into cut the slash piles placed liability on the purchaser. So, 99% would not agree to that.

There were lots of rumors about the Thirty Mile fire. We don't have "minnows" in those waters. We have salmon, trout, and steelhead. In those creeks ( I lived in that area for a few years) there would be trout.
The creeks feed into the Methow River, which feeds into the Columbia. The latter two have trout, steelhead, and a few salmon. No minnows that I know of. There were other rumors going around too.

Also, in our part of the country, we have plenty of electricity. This year they were shutting off the wind generators because we had a surplus of hydro power. Any biomass plant would have to be govt. subsidized because it isn't needed here. There was an attempt to put one in Shelton, WA, but some of the residents protested and about then the power surplus was mentioned.

Times have changed. Oh, and we had some big fires in past years. Look up Entiat and 1970. That was when there were mills and logging and roads. 1986, 1987. I was on the firelines those two years. Logging and roads were still going pretty good too. 1977 was another good year to make overtime on fires.

That's all I can remember. There is no easy solution. I think part of the reason we have more big fires is that we don't have as many eyes in the woods. When there were loggers all over, and FS folks, smokes were more apt to be spotted by somebody. Sometimes those got away too.

We also did more salvage logging of bug kill but now those mills are gone. The planning that is now required to put up such timber for sale can cost more than the value of the timber.

I'm open to hearing solutions. But we hear the same rhetoric every fire season, then all the promises are forgotten over the winter, and then we have a repeat. It is Groundhog Day.

Good on that crew for pulling out. And good on their people for supporting their decision.

We could use a fire in our huckleberry fields. But that doesn't happen. Oh well....and I'd be complaining about the smoke.
 
edit:OK, this is the best I can do right now, my memory wasn't too bad.

Original story

Government lets 8 people burn to death in order to save fish - Family, Friends, Firearms


Ok I Remember that Fire. Yes 4 people died Yes They were cut off, But 1: the "rivers" nearby are not very big, as in not deep enough to fill a drop bucket 2: The poor bastards gave lousy coordinates, because they were lost and therefore could not be found, this was before everyone had a gps in their pocket 3: Do Not use an opinion piece as "the REAL STORY". Poopy happens people die, I really doubt that the people in charge of a fire would just Let someone die without doing everything in their power to rescue them

Please if eye am wrong correct me, I think I got most of the pertinent details in there
 
edit:OK, this is the best I can do right now, my memory wasn't too bad.

Original story

Government lets 8 people burn to death in order to save fish - Family, Friends, Firearms


Ok I Remember that Fire. Yes 4 people died Yes They were cut off, But 1: the "rivers" nearby are not very big, as in not deep enough to fill a drop bucket 2: The poor bastards gave lousy coordinates, because they were lost and therefore could not be found, this was before everyone had a gps in their pocket 3: Do Not use an opinion piece as "the REAL STORY". Poopy happens people die, I really doubt that the people in charge of a fire would just Let someone die without doing everything in their power to rescue them

Please if eye am wrong correct me, I think I got most of the pertinent details in there

No they were not lost. They did get trapped. The majority of the crew took shelter in the river or creek with fire shelters. The four that died popped their fire shelters on a rocky hillside. There were rumors that the crewboss yelled at them to get in the creek but they refused. That was a RUMOR going around, not proven. And there was an area to get a bucket in. But it aint TV.

A former co-worker summed it up as a crew that had been thrown together and didn't have time to get to
know and trust each other. I think that's a good summation. When I went on thrown together at the last minute crews, we were from the same district, and we'd worked together on slash burning projects. We knew each other and our capabilities. There are few slash burns anymore.

We can't know what really happened. We weren't there. Firefighting is dangerous.
 
The other thing about the "ESA VS Firefighters" argument in the Thirtymile investigation which is often missed is that the restriction against dipping in the Cheuwuch River did not extend to emergency situations. This fact was not clearly related to either the firefighters on the ground, to their overhead, or to the pilots flying the helicopters. It was assumed that the restriction applied, and not pursued further.
 
edit:OK, this is the best I can do right now, my memory wasn't too bad.

Original story

Government lets 8 people burn to death in order to save fish - Family, Friends, Firearms


Ok I Remember that Fire. Yes 4 people died Yes They were cut off, But 1: the "rivers" nearby are not very big, as in not deep enough to fill a drop bucket 2: The poor bastards gave lousy coordinates, because they were lost and therefore could not be found, this was before everyone had a gps in their pocket 3: Do Not use an opinion piece as "the REAL STORY". Poopy happens people die, I really doubt that the people in charge of a fire would just Let someone die without doing everything in their power to rescue them

Please if eye am wrong correct me, I think I got most of the pertinent details in there

I was going by hazy memory from a story more than a decade ago, and a quick search that was what I could find yesterday for a reference, that's all.
 
Is the clearwater-potlatch timber protection association made up of private timber companies or govt? I dont know squat about the intermountain region so could somebody fill me in? Referring to the article where the Montana hot shot crew walked off after safety concerns.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
So what happens if a guy where to get an evacuation notice and ignore it and stay home? Assuming that he lived through it and his property was mostly in tact just a random thought of the day...

I think nothing. And, if I had greenery around my home in that area, I would be inclined to stay home. It is mostly grass and brush on the hills above Wenatchee. If I lived there, I would definitely have a green zone around my house, along with a metal roof on the house.

Some really big houses were built on the hillsides. The same hillsides that had frequent "grass fires" on them. That's what we called the fires that burned around the valley.
 
I like a nice little piece of fire brake around the house... Most of those houses on the hill are fairly new right? And they haven't had a big fire in Wenatchee in a few years correct? This could go bad really fast... Not saying I would stay home but after working and living in a place for umpteen years it could be very hard to just walk away and hope the fire crews stopped it just in time:msp_unsure:
 
So what happens if a guy where to get an evacuation notice and ignore it and stay home?

Usually nothing. Fire crews have no authority to enforce law. However, occasionally, if a State of Emergency, or worse, Martial Law, is declared, LEO's are more than able to do their jobs.

When I lived in Orlando in 1998, the fires there were bad enough that they declared Martial Law, and evacuated all of Flagler County. Anyone within the county who was not part of a fire/emergency crew, law enforcement, or National Guard, was assumed to be a looter and arrested on sight. A firefighter I know was on a crew there and was stopped at a roadblock in a "non-approved vehicle" with a load of food and supplies for a fire camp, and was almost not allowed to make his delivery. It was only through the showing of Red Cards and mighty and judicious of Diplomacy that the situation was squared away in a timely fashion.

Now that you mention it... Looks like these bits of rain aren't going to help the east side at all.
 
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