Firewood bundler

[memory]

I am looking for ideas for a firewood bundler. Currently we don't sell a big volume of bundles at all, maybe sell 40-50 a year, not really advertising either.

Currently using either a 6" or 8" piece of plastic pipe about 3-4 inches wide with a couple pieces of angle iron bolted on for legs. The wood pieces are about 16" long. Don't have any pics at the moment. Fill it up as best as possible, and either tie it with plastic string used for square bales or zip ties that are rated for 175lbs and slide the pipe off the bundle. One issue is depending on how tight the wood is, it can be a struggle to get the bundle out of the pipe. Couple issues with string, they can really start to hurt your hands trying to get them as tight as possible even with wearing gloves, also as the wood dries and shrinks over time, it can become lose with string.

Been trying zip ties, they are not perfect either. Figured if they become lose, I could just pull them tight again. I am using 24" zip ties rated for 175lbs and have to put 2 together for it to be long enough. So that is 4 per bundle if I tie it twice and they can be expensive. And even rated at 175lbs, they do tend to break when I go to pull them tight. Also worry about long term storage if the zip ties will become brittle, they are stored inside but still exposed to temps.

Thinking about coming up with something to use with shrink wrap. For the amount we do, it doesn't need to be motorized. But for those that use shrink wrap, what do you use for handles?

 

[mijdirtyjeep]

Where are you located at? I am thinking of getting rid of mine it’s from Jon’s welding in Wisconsin. It’s a manual wrapper, but is also set up to put a HF predator gas motor on it.

We sold around 10k bundles a year and I never put handles on them. No one even ever asked for it, so I wasn’t going to waste time and money on them.

 

[memory]

Where are you located at? I am thinking of getting rid of mine it’s from Jon’s welding in Wisconsin. It’s a manual wrapper, but is also set up to put a HF predator gas motor on it.

We sold around 10k bundles a year and I never put handles on them. No one even ever asked for it, so I wasn’t going to waste time and money on them.

I am located in Southern Indiana

 

[mijdirtyjeep]

I’m in west Michigan.

There is really not much to one if you can weld. Also plastic wrap is pretty cheap at about $35 a case. That has 4 rolls in it. Usually a roll would last me about 75-100 bundles.

The shrinking wood is still a problem with plastic wrap. I found splitting smaller would one allow it to season faster and two would burn in their campfire ring fast. Win win if you ask me, as they buy more bundles!

 

[mijdirtyjeep]

As far as speed, I would dump my racks in the 14’ dump trailer, then position my other dump trailer the bundles were going in next to it. With this set up, 60 bundles and hour is achievable. I paid teenagers $.25/bundle to wrap them. Most of them could do 40-50hr. That’s $10-12.50 and it was paid cash at the end of the day. Had one kid that could do the 60hr and he made good cash one summer

 

[unclemoustache]

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/homemade-bundler-is-finished.339198/

Just finished building one. It was fun, and I'm very happy with how well it works. It cost more than I was expecting - about $700 all told. That gear reducer was a spendy little thing, but you can use pulleys to do the same thing.

Here's my thread on handles:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/bundle-handles.338583/

 

[mijdirtyjeep]

^^^^ I was looking to find your build thread and send him the link!

the electric motor vin my opinion is better than my setup with a gas engine! My gas motor vibrated the wrapper just enough that it vibrate wood off the gauge.

 

[memory]

Ty all for the ideas. I know it has been a while since I started this post. Still been using mainly zip ties, haven't really had the time or took the time to mess with any type of wrapper. Some of the wood we bundle can be wet, but do let them dry before they are sold. How does shrink wrap do with wet wood? Will it become loose once the wood dries?
In the original post, I stated we sell around 50 per year. I am going to say it is a lot more than that. Just started keeping track of it and seems we sell more than I realized. Looking to do something that is more time efficient. Never kept track of how many I can do in an hour with zip ties or string but I can say it is pretty slow.
My big concern with shrink wrap is wrapping wet wood.

 

[mijdirtyjeep]

Good wrap will shrink a little, but not enough to wrap green wood and let it dry. I tried that. On an average week I could easily sell 500 bundles. It was nothing sending a trailer a day out with 130/bundles. Where are you located at? My wrapper is for sale and I would make you a great deal on it. I like you work ethic.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

At the moment bundles are a big deal. It looks like there is a demand for 50,000 bundles a month here. I have set my minimum at $6 per bundle and that is starting to materialize, but it is a little ways off. I can not understand how wrapping green wood has any chance of working. I have only wrapped seasoned wood with 60 to 90 mil plastic and it holds up well for up to two years if out of the sun. A 110 or 12 volt bundler seems like the only tool possible. Thanks

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I've never tried shrink wrap, but stretch wrap works fine with wet wood as long as the bundle is wrapped tight.

Using an 8" pipe makes a rather small bundle - only about .45 cu ft.
It's much easier to make larger bundles. .75 or 1 cu ft is a fairly std size.

 

[memory]

I've never tried shrink wrap, but stretch wrap works fine with wet wood as long as the bundle is wrapped tight.

Using an 8" pipe makes a rather small bundle - only about .45 cu ft.
It's much easier to make larger bundles. .75 or 1 cu ft is a fairly std size.

Need to correct my original post, I am using a piece of 12" pipe, 11.5" ID. Not sure where I got that other measurement from.
EDIT: Is it possible to edit my original post? I don't see edit button like there is on this post.

I have used plastic baling string, which costs pennies to use. But the thing with that is can't get them as tight as zip ties and worry about pieces coming out when the customers handle it and especially when bundling green wood.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I’m in west Michigan.

There is really not much to one if you can weld. Also plastic wrap is pretty cheap at about $35 a case. That has 4 rolls in it. Usually a roll would last me about 75-100 bundles.

I've never seen wrap that cheap.
Best deal I've found has been about $60 a case shipped. The shipping being the killer on any deals.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I've never tried shrink wrap, but stretch wrap works fine with wet wood as long as the bundle is wrapped tight. Using an 8" pipe makes a rather small bundle - only about .45 cu ft. It's much easier to make larger bundles. .75 or 1 cu ft is a fairly std size.

I was referring to stretch wrap not genuine shrink-wrap. My experience says that the plastic needs to go around three to four times and last a long time. If the wood is stored green it seems to collect mold in just a few days. When the wood is green and heavy the plastic seems to tear a lot. Thanks

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I was referring to stretch wrap not genuine shrink-wrap. My experience says that the plastic needs to go around three to four times and last a long time. If the wood is stored green it seems to collect mold in just a few days. When the wood is green and heavy the plastic seems to tear a lot. Thanks

Yes, 4 wraps.

Hasn't been my experience with mold unless they are stacked with the rows against each other.

Yes, the bundles are heavy and that sucks. It is better that the wood is dry, though that adds yet another step.

Honestly for the amount of added handling and work for bundles, they aren't exactly a cash cow.

I had a large retailer want to contract with me for bundles. We never agreed to a price, but they said I was too high at $2.75 each (they sell for $5-7 each, depending on location and time of year). That was delivered price too, so would have been palletizing it or load onto truck and offload (easily at least 4 man hours per 100 bundles)

Even if selling for $5 each, that's $500 a cord. Seems great.

Subtract material costs and there's $30. Then 100 bundles is ~4-5 added manhours between extra splitting, handling, and making bundles vs bulk wood.
Even at min wage that's $50.
So $420.
If we add in time dealing with dozens of customers, and/or "slippage" if a roadside stand, added electricity and fuel costs, card fees for 20 or 30 customers per 100 bundles and easily at the $400 mark.

Bulk wood... 5 hours, can have 2 cords cut and loaded in a truck and delivered, bringing in ~$550.


I just mention it to anyone... sit down and run the numbers.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Need to correct my original post, I am using a piece of 12" pipe, 11.5" ID. Not sure where I got that other measurement from.
EDIT: Is it possible to edit my original post? I don't see edit button like there is on this post.

I have used plastic baling string, which costs pennies to use. But the thing with that is can't get them as tight as zip ties and worry about pieces coming out when the customers handle it and especially when bundling green wood.

Yes, or string breaking when used as a handle.

I had a sign saying to the effect of Bundle weighs aprox 25lbs and wood may become loose. Carry at own risk.

Was a big concern that someone would end up with wood on their toes and I'd be responsible.

The bit of bundles I'd have come apart were usually not wrapped well or rough handling, especially when cold (winter). Maybe 1 in 100.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Yes, 4 wraps.

Hasn't been my experience with mold unless they are stacked with the rows against each other.

Yes, the bundles are heavy and that sucks. It is better that the wood is dry, though that adds yet another step.

Honestly for the amount of added handling and work for bundles, they aren't exactly a cash cow.

I had a large retailer want to contract with me for bundles. We never agreed to a price, but they said I was too high at $2.75 each (they sell for $5-7 each, depending on location and time of year). That was delivered price too, so would have been palletizing it or load onto truck and offload (easily at least 4 man hours per 100 bundles)

Even if selling for $5 each, that's $500 a cord. Seems great.

Subtract material costs and there's $30. Then 100 bundles is ~4-5 added manhours between extra splitting, handling, and making bundles vs bulk wood.
Even at min wage that's $50.
So $420.
If we add in time dealing with dozens of customers, and/or "slippage" if a roadside stand, added electricity and fuel costs, card fees for 20 or 30 customers per 100 bundles and easily at the $400 mark.

Bulk wood... 5 hours, can have 2 cords cut and loaded in a truck and delivered, bringing in ~$550.


I just mention it to anyone... sit down and run the numbers.

I think when every thing is set up and rolling a cord in about 2 1/2 hours. That is for 1 CF bundles cut at 18''. Then what? The wood has to be stacked in a truck or trailer to be delivered. If it is a matter of me doing bundles or hiring it done. To get some one to bundle is going to cost $15 to $20 an hour. So labor will be some where at $60 per cord, handling and loading $20, delivery $20, cost of wood stacked or stored dry at least $150, bundling supplies $5, yard space $50, equipment $50 equals $355. So it seems to me I need to set a price at $5 per bundle equals $625. Thanks

 

[memory]

Yes, or string breaking when used as a handle.

I had a sign saying to the effect of Bundle weighs aprox 25lbs and wood may become loose. Carry at own risk.

Was a big concern that someone would end up with wood on their toes and I'd be responsible.

The bit of bundles I'd have come apart were usually not wrapped well or rough handling, especially when cold (winter). Maybe 1 in 100.

I am not so worried about string breaking, the string we use is rated for 250lbs I think. It is much heavier than the normal square bale string. Even when using zip ties, still use a piece of string for a handle.

As far as costs, we typically don't hire help to do this, usually just me and/or my dad. Just have to factor in the time it takes. We are for sure not doing it the most efficient way, always have many other things going on. As far as equipment costs and whatnot, not sure how to figure that in the cost of bundles. We already cut wood to heat the house and water, which we keep the stove going year round usually, heat water in summer time. So not like we just bought equipment just to make bundles. Yes it takes gas to run the splitter to split the pieces, which does take more time than stove wood since it is smaller pieces.

Not sure how many we can do in an hour, lots of times just work on it in between other things. Just recently started using a plastic bin that holds about 20 bundles of wood thrown in loosely. Again, never tried to see how long it takes to do a bin full. We sell a bundle for $5 which is about .70 cubic ft.