Ford Super Duty with the 5.4L

[KMB]

I have friends with the Ford V10.I think my 8.1 may use a little more around town,they are very close though.The 8.1 is a bigger engine,and has more torque down low,hands down.It will hold high gear longer,and pull easier in the higher gears. The V10 Ford is a 10 cylinder,but it is still a small block,so it does rev better than the 8.1,and it shows its advantage with RPM,overall they are very close,the Ford wins higher in the RPM band,the GM down low.Id buy either one.One thing the 8.1 has is an Allison auto,big advantage there until 05 with the torqueshift became available on the Ford,even then,the Allison is the more reliable unit.

Good points, and good presentation of the info...instead of thrashing the other brand.

I have heard good things about the Allison...

Kevin

 

[KMB]

on the data tag inside the door, where ti says axle, if it is just a number, it's an open dif, such as "9", if it were H9 as is my expedition, then it is limited slip, ford has used a system like this for many years, I don't know the gear ratio, in respect to this number, but the ratios are on a tag on the dif itself. H9 is 3.55 at least for an exp. and they only put limited slips in the rear dif. I think on the ford truck enthusiasts forum, you can find all the ratios, and imfo, I believe the ninth digit in the vin code, tells the axle ratio too, not sure though.

Thanks for that info. Good stuff. Another post for me to print off for future reference...I'm getting quite a pile .

Kevin

 

[DavesDD2500HD]

I have friends with the Ford V10.I think my 8.1 may use a little more around town,they are very close though.The 8.1 is a bigger engine,and has more torque down low,hands down.It will hold high gear longer,and pull easier in the higher gears. The V10 Ford is a 10 cylinder,but it is still a small block,so it does rev better than the 8.1,and it shows its advantage with RPM,overall they are very close,the Ford wins higher in the RPM band,the GM down low.Id buy either one.One thing the 8.1 has is an Allison auto,big advantage there until 05 with the torqueshift became available on the Ford,even then,the Allison is the more reliable unit.

:agree2:

I owned a 2004 F250 with V10 and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. I had a good friend with a 2002 2500HD with the 8.1L and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. My Ford would get around 12-13 on the highway empty/9-10 loaded with a medium weight trailer. My buddy's 8.1L would get around 11-12 on the highway empty/10 loaded with a trailer.

Both trucks are very similar and will do a good job. John says it good with the low down grunt vs. top end pull.

Now I can vouch for the Allison. I had a 2004 Duramax with the same Allison the 8.1L has. That is a very nice tranny. I definitely wish my current 6.0L gasser could have the Allison. I think the Allison really shines if you live in the hills and tow heavy. I have not been in a truck with the Torqshift to know what it's like.

If you do try a GM with the Allison, you will notice is has a very steep reverse gear. Also has a pretty steep first forward gear too which helps get a heavy load moving.

Some very good options out there. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts if you drive some of these or end up buying one.

 

[DavesDD2500HD]

Just remembered that the Allison (1000 series) transmissions used in the GM trucks were originally 5 speed from 2001 through early 2005 model years. Then they were 6 speeds from late 2005 model year through early 2007 model year. I know this was true on the diesels, but I believe it was the same on the 8.1L gassers.

The sixth gear was another overdrive. Wish I knew someone with an 8.1L in the later years to verify this. Also would be interesting to see what they get for mileage. I'd suspect it would be slightly better having that extra OD to lower the RPMs. The 8.1L is torquey enough to pull down low.

 

[KMB]

:agree2:

I owned a 2004 F250 with V10 and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. I had a good friend with a 2002 2500HD with the 8.1L and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. My Ford would get around 12-13 on the highway empty/9-10 loaded with a medium weight trailer. My buddy's 8.1L would get around 11-12 on the highway empty/10 loaded with a trailer.

Both trucks are very similar and will do a good job. John says it good with the low down grunt vs. top end pull.

Now I can vouch for the Allison. I had a 2004 Duramax with the same Allison the 8.1L has. That is a very nice tranny. I definitely wish my current 6.0L gasser could have the Allison. I think the Allison really shines if you live in the hills and tow heavy. I have not been in a truck with the Torqshift to know what it's like.

If you do try a GM with the Allison, you will notice is has a very steep reverse gear. Also has a pretty steep first forward gear too which helps get a heavy load moving.

Some very good options out there. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts if you drive some of these or end up buying one.

Just remembered that the Allison (1000 series) transmissions used in the GM trucks were originally 5 speed from 2001 through early 2005 model years. Then they were 6 speeds from late 2005 model year through early 2007 model year. I know this was true on the diesels, but I believe it was the same on the 8.1L gassers.

The sixth gear was another overdrive. Wish I knew someone with an 8.1L in the later years to verify this. Also would be interesting to see what they get for mileage. I'd suspect it would be slightly better having that extra OD to lower the RPMs. The 8.1L is torquey enough to pull down low.

And...another good post and good info...thanks.

Kevin

 

[Lugnutz]

satelite sucks, its expensive and unreliable..stick with the dial up till you get dsl in your area...I had the sat thing about 5 years ago..horrible! Got dsl a month ago finally!!!! cheaper and better and faster.

 

[gr8scott72]

on the data tag inside the door, where ti says axle, if it is just a number, it's an open dif, such as "9", if it were H9 as is my expedition, then it is limited slip, ford has used a system like this for many years, I don't know the gear ratio, in respect to this number, but the ratios are on a tag on the dif itself. H9 is 3.55 at least for an exp. and they only put limited slips in the rear dif. I think on the ford truck enthusiasts forum, you can find all the ratios, and imfo, I believe the ninth digit in the vin code, tells the axle ratio too, not sure though.

Unless it's a 2000 model. Then, sometimes, they didn't put the code on the sticker in the door jam. That's why I took that picture. I was told if it was over 2k rpms at 60 mpg then it's a 4.30:1 and if it's under 2k at 60 then it's the 3.73:1.

I don't know if mine is limited slip or not. It is 4x4, and to me, it is amazing what it will go through even with highway tires.

 

[gr8scott72]

So what vehicle has that speedo?

It's a 1994 Infiniti J30t that I bought for $1,000. Runs great, looks beautiful. It is actually related to this thread in that I traded my FIL that car for the Excursion. I think I got the better end of that deal but he didn't really have any need for the Excursion.

 

[clinchscavalry]

I don't know if mine is limited slip or not. It is 4x4, and to me, it is amazing what it will go through even with highway tires.

Easy way to find out for sure. Just jack up either rear wheel. If it pulls off the jack, it's limited slip. If the raised wheel just spins, the differential is open.

 

[KMB]

KMB,If you plan on hauling a lot of wood,and your actually worried about the actual tow capacity, A 12500 rating is a good start.It really isnt that much,my truck has a 13,100 rating or something around there 8.1/3.73,my Dodge a 13000 rating.with my 14K dump trailer loaded,its about 14000-15000,so im over the rating,and it sure dont look like a lot of wood to me...esp with green oak...The tow rating of my truck with 4.10 gears is 15,100 lbs,so im really not worried about towing a little over for my short trips,and the truck does very well pulling it.IMO,with out of warranty trucks,the tow rating should be thrown out the window for short trips and local roads.The tow rating I use for myself,the practical one, for short trips,and local roads with open trailers esp,I use the highest tow rating offered with the chassis and GVWR of the truck your buying.So in your case even with a 5.4,as long as its in a super duty,Id tow up to the max rating of the diesel,if needed,without concern for safety.It may be sluggish taking off,but IMO,you arent a liability to those around you or yourself.Just go by DOT rules,and you;ll be fine,they dont care about mfg tow ratings.If the 5.4 was in an f150,different story,as now the tow rating is chassis limited,more than power limited.

Youll be working it hard,yes,but just run full synthetic lubricants in the drivetrain,and use common sense,and all will be fine.I use low range to get out of the woods with a 15K load,then switch to high before pulling onto the road.Same for parking in the woods while loading heavy.leave it in low range,its much easier on the park gear in an auto,esp if hte e brakes dont work well.You use your gearing instead of heating the torque convertor for nothing.

I was re-reading a few posts here and came across this one. I went to some 2001 trailer towing specs and was looking up the Ford specs and looked at the GM specs again. The numbers were different from what John D had posted...until I looked at the Fifth wheel towing specs and saw that they matched. So then it dawned on me that I should have mentioned in my posts (when I mention towing specs) that I have been looking at the Conventional towing specs for max. trailer weight because right now I don't see a goose neck trailer in my future. BUT, I should probably take that into consideration for the possibility of pulling a goose neck later on.

John D, I wasn't doubting the numbers you posted, I was comparing them to some online specs (from trailerlife.com) and they had made disclaimers that the reader should check with the dealers because the specs that trailerlife get are sometimes preliminary to what gets officially released later.

Kevin

 

[John D]

Conventional towing[/I] specs for max. trailer weight because right now I don't see a goose neck trailer in my future. BUT, I should probably take that into consideration for the possibility of pulling a goose neck later on.

John D, I wasn't doubting the numbers you posted, I was comparing them to some online specs (from trailerlife.com) and they had made disclaimers that the reader should check with the dealers because the specs that trailerlife get are sometimes preliminary to what gets officially released later.

Kevin

Kevin, the factory hitch is only rated to 12,000,so they stop the tow ratings there.All you need to do is swap out the factory receiver hitch for a Putnam XDR or Reese Titan V,and you will then have the ability to tow up to the 15000-16000 the hitch is rated for,so long as you use a rated coupler,trailer,and ball/pintle.At 15000,the hard part with a single wheel is keeping tongue weight managable,which is the point where a dually would be nice,even for short trips,dont ask me how I know this....

 

[KMB]

Kevin, GM quoted those numbers for conventional towing.The hitch is only rated to 12,000,so they stop the tow ratings there.All you need to do is swap out the factory receiver hitch for a Putnam XDR or Reese Titan V,and you will then have the ability to tow up to the 15000-16000 the hitch is rated for,so long as you use a rated coupler,trailer,and ball/pintle.At 15000,the hard part with a single wheel is keeping tongue weight managable,which is the point where a dually would be nice,even for short trips,dont ask me how I know this....

So...how do you know this?... .

Ah-ha...I understand the 12,000 hitch rating. I Learned something new...again . As for the heavier duty hitches, I had looked them up at the Reese site last night after looking at some older Ford brochures I have.

Kevin

 

[DavesDD2500HD]

John gives more good info about watching the hitch weight ratings. Some people don't regard the factory GM hitches very well for heavy loads. I've never had a problem with any of mine but then I've not pulled more than about 7-8k lbs.

My buddy who had the 2002 8.1L bent his factory hitch on his 2005 Duramax. He pulled a 32' stacker triple axle we used for racing. He ended up having another friend of mine make a custom hitch that was fully welded to the truck frame.

The Putnam XDR is a very good hitch and well priced. I heard they have gone out of busines... so it may be tough to find one new. The Reese Titan V is another very good hitch. I think it is also known as the "tow beast" hitch. I believe it has the 2.5" receiver opening instead of the standard 2".

If you get to pulling 14-16k, a pintle is probably a good idea. A dually is also a good idea due to the tongue weight and the lever effect of a bumper pull vs a goose or fifth. Still need a strong hitch like the Putnam or Reese for bumper pull.

 

[KMB]

John gives more good info about watching the hitch weight ratings. Some people don't regard the factory GM hitches very well for heavy loads. I've never had a problem with any of mine but then I've not pulled more than about 7-8k lbs.

My buddy who had the 2002 8.1L bent his factory hitch on his 2005 Duramax. He pulled a 32' stacker triple axle we used for racing. He ended up having another friend of mine make a custom hitch that was fully welded to the truck frame.

The Putnam XDR is a very good hitch and well priced. I heard they have gone out of busines... so it may be tough to find one new. The Reese Titan V is another very good hitch. I think it is also known as the "tow beast" hitch. I believe it has the 2.5" receiver opening instead of the standard 2".

If you get to pulling 14-16k, a pintle is probably a good idea. A dually is also a good idea due to the tongue weight and the lever effect of a bumper pull vs a goose or fifth. Still need a strong hitch like the Putnam or Reese for bumper pull.

More good hitch info.

This from the Resse website. The Reese Class V Ultra Frame has a 2" opening and is rated to 12,000 lbs for weight carrying and 15,000 lbs for weight distributing. The Reese Class V Titan Frame has a 2.5" opening and is rated to 13,000 lbs for weight carrying and 17,000 lbs for weight distributing.

Edit: Looking through some of the individual ratings on the Reese Titan and some are up to 18,000 lbs. on the weight carrying and weight distributing.

Kevin

 

[KMB]

Easy way to find out for sure. Just jack up either rear wheel. If it pulls off the jack, it's limited slip. If the raised wheel just spins, the differential is open.

I could do that if I owned it. If the owner doesn't know what it has, I'm not sure they would want me doing that when I'm truck shopping, even if the wheel is jacked up to just clear the ground. I'm sure a call to the local dealer with the VIN # would work. I'm going to find out if there is a sure way to find out what gears a truck (I know each brand will be different) has and if it has limited-slip.

Kevin

 

[DavesDD2500HD]

Kevin,

Pardon me if this has been stated before...don't quite recall during the 7+ pages now. For GM HD trucks, the following codes on the sticker inside the glove box door will tell you the gear ratio and if it has a positraction differential.

GT4 = 3.73 gear ratio
GT5 = 4.10 gear ratio

G80 = Posi rear axle

 

[KMB]

Kevin,

Pardon me if this has been stated before...don't quite recall during the 7+ pages now. For GM HD trucks, the following codes on the sticker inside the glove box door will tell you the gear ratio and if it has a positraction differential.

GT4 = 3.73 gear ratio
GT5 = 4.10 gear ratio

G80 = Posi rear axle

I don't think it has been mentioned. Thank ya.

Kevin

 

[gr8scott72]

Kevin,

Pardon me if this has been stated before...don't quite recall during the 7+ pages now. For GM HD trucks, the following codes on the sticker inside the glove box door will tell you the gear ratio and if it has a positraction differential.

GT4 = 3.73 gear ratio
GT5 = 4.10 gear ratio

G80 = Posi rear axle

And from FTE, here's the Ford axle codes:
(Driver's door jam sticker)

Axle Type
31 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-250/Excursion
C1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-250/Excursion
32 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-250
C2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-250/Excursion
33 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-250
C3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-250/Excursion
36 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-250
C6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-250
41 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
42 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
43 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
46 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
61 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
F1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
62 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
F2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
63 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
F3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
66 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
F6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
81 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
82 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
83 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
86 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
88 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
EW — 4.88 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
G3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
73 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
78 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
G8 — 4.88 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
75 — 5.38 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
G5 — 5.38 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
GW — 4.10 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
98 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
K8 — 4.88 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
95 — 5.38 non-limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
K5 — 5.38 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
KW — 4.10 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab

 

[KMB]

Scott, you da man! Thank ya.

Kevin

 

[merlynr]

May be old news, but the V10 is the same engine as the 5.4 except has 2 more cylinders.