Gas Question: Premium Gas or Ethanol Free

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That's where I go... Walmart gardnerville. I Get 10 gallons at a time.


WARNING OFF TOPIC ALERT

Dayum, two more guys from the Reno/Carson City area:surprised3:, either of you know Mike, "Rupedog", he is out in Dayton.

I help out another account in Reno, every so often, and met Mike for Dinner at Red's Old 395 BBQ, in Carson, trip before last.

Looks like I will be going back in May when Tom goes on vacation, we might have to have a little GTG, don't know what the hotel will think of me bringing chainsaws, but Medford didn't get at all concerned last June, just kept them cased in the room.


Doug :cheers:

End Off Topic Alert, now back to your regularly scheduled discussion;)
 
WARNING OFF TOPIC ALERT

Dayum, two more guys from the Reno/Carson City area:surprised3:, either of you know Mike, "Rupedog", he is out in Dayton.

I help out another account in Reno, every so often, and met Mike for Dinner at Red's Old 395 BBQ, in Carson, trip before last.

Looks like I will be going back in May when Tom goes on vacation, we might have to have a little GTG, don't know what the hotel will think of me bringing chainsaws, but Medford didn't get at all concerned last June, just kept them cased in the room.


Doug :cheers:

End Off Topic Alert, now back to your regularly scheduled discussion;)
RupeDoggy I was just talking to him about a 200T
 
RupeDoggy I was just talking to him about a 200T


Mike is a Great guy, very Friendly, and was an enjoyable dinner companion, while I was out of town for work, last trip was shorter and our schedules just didn't line up.

Awhile back Mike shipped someone a saw, and forgot to drain the tanks, of course, it didn't get caught until it was at the USPS center in Federal Way, WA, and they made all kinds of stink about it. Mike needed someone to go drain and rebox the saw to complete the shipment, I was going to swing in there on one of my Kent runs, it is only a mile or two off of I-5, but someone else was able to do it before I was, so the saw did eventually get to the buyer, just a bit delayed.


Doug :cheers:
 
Post edit:

Just a thought now that I know your elevation 'there' ..I don't know the elevation you cut at though?
You roughly loose 3% compression for every 1000 ft.
I believe 5000ft is at 86%
So you could be at 129 psi if say your saw would be at 150 at sea level should be good at a lower octane as I've usually run 89 on the coast
 
Husky Man,

I had been talking to Mike for a bit because he was going to help me rebuild a MS441 magnum that was straight gassed. I got it for free so i figured id put in a new kit and see if it worked out...if not no big loss on my end. I had just moved to carson and was getting things settled here and whatnot so i was rather tied up for a while and I think he got frustrated with my lack of availability, which is understandable. This is only my second year running saws so im reaalllly new with this stuff but hot damn is it addicting! If anyone in the Reno Carson area wants to help me attempt to rebuild the Magnum let me know! To be honest, i dont even know where to begin though :baaa:
 
That's where I go... Walmart gardnerville. I Get 10 gallons at a time.
You get the gas at the walmart? I was going to head down there this weekend. Do you cut firewood here in Carson/Tahoe? Been lookin for a wood cutting buddy...been just buying bulk almond and cutting it up in my backyard as of late. Hoping to get some permits for pine once it warms up!
 
Just a thought now that I know your elevation 'there' ..I don't know the elevation you cut at though? There may be good reason why they choose to stock low octane fuels there. (To me, that's not heard or seen of).
You roughly loose 3% compression for every 1000 ft.
I believe 5000ft is at 86%
So you could be at 129 psi if say your saw would be at 150 at sea level.
That's not good for high octane at all.
That creates pre ignition?
I was taught in training it's 4% for every 1K in elevation but wherever your info came from may use 3%. I'm a service tech and have to D rate for burners and those are the numbers we are taught to use (not saying your numbers are wrong just saying this is what I was trained to use). So by my numbers at 5K you would be looking at 20% loss. Higher oct gas is a slower burning (kind of like a magnum powder if you reload), just for the heck of it I tried 91 oct E-free and 88 oct E-free and maybe it's my imagination but it didn't seem as much heat was coming off my engines at 7K elev with the 88 oct and I couldn't notice any difference in power, which mind you using my numbers I have already lost 28% as compared to sea level at 7K. I mix at 40:1. Now this is on stock saws, this year will be my first year using a higher compression saw so I will have to see what happens.

Cut and paste from web search:Because higher octane gas burns slower, it is more resistant to knock when subjected to higher RPM and cylinder pressures. ... Higher ratios cause higher cylinder pressures and therefore cause the engine to be more susceptible to pre-detonation or knock.
 
Im at about 4700 feet in elevation. Im hoping to maybe cut some pine up in tahoe once it warms up but for now ive just been cutting bulk firewood ive purchased in my backyard
 
Have you actually seen a difference using Stabil?

Gas octane drops like a rock here in a month in a can w/o Stabil. Ethanol or no ethanol. Ethanol is way worse in this wet environment. No brainer and no question. Stabil definitely works. I add it at the gas station when I get the gas for my saws, which is a buck more a gallon here for premium no-E than premium w/ethanol. I buy saw gas by the 5 gallon jug, and mix oil with it in gallon jugs for use. I have 2 gallons left in the 5-gallon jug now that is about 6 moths old, and it still runs fine. It will last for a year with Stabil. After 6 months w/o Stabil my 4-stroke lawn mower will not even run on it. It just chokes and misfires. I use regular E-10 gas in the mower, but I also add Stabil to that gas when it is fresh.

For winter storage I used to empty the gas tanks in my saws and blowers and run them dry, and pour a little 2-stroke oil in the cylinder. No longer. I just leave them with Stabil gas over winter and I have no issues with them. Another reason I use Stabil is that the synthetic FD 2-stroke motorcycle oil I use does not have any stabilizer in it.
 
Im not one to judge a book by its cover but im assuming the gas attendants won't know. I was Only curious about ethanol free because i was hoping to use that and leave it in my blowers, trimmers, saws without draining the tanks when done using. Im assuming if the button data 87 that means it's 87 octane...im kinda new to all this!

Thanks!
E-free will STILL go BAD over time! The only "gas" that is safe to leave in your O-P-E is an alkylated fuel (not really gas) like Moto-Mix or True-Fuel.
 
I have experienced some problems with E gasolines such as hoses gone bad and deterorated plastic. Over all no real problems. I find the E gasolines are better than not. Alcohol runs cooler than straight gasoline so that is a plus. Alcohol eliminates all water related problems. Alcohol does not store well. When I am cuttting I go through twenty gallons in a week. When I am not cutting I run a saw nearly out of fuel before putting it on a shelf. For most part I do not let a saw go idle for more than two weeks. It is not uncommon to get a log and cut for a couple of minutes with every saw and yes it takes an hour or so, but hate surprises about a non running idle saw. Thanks
 
You get the gas at the walmart? I was going to head down there this weekend. Do you cut firewood here in Carson/Tahoe? Been lookin for a wood cutting buddy...been just buying bulk almond and cutting it up in my backyard as of late. Hoping to get some permits for pine once it warms up!

Mostly up at Tahoe. I'm around Kuusamo Finland at the moment so not much wifi to chat....
 
Isn't "moar ethanol" how they raise the octane nowadays in MV fuels, since MTBE has been banned?

I'd go with e-free gas over higher octane if it had ethanol in it. I get 89 and 91 octane around here. Most marinas sell 89 for boats, and that works fine in my saws.

Burn enough of it and you can get your highway excise taxes refunded! :numberone:
 
Hey everyone! Locally here I can get Ethanol free gas that appears to have an octane of 87 (the button says 87). Im curious if this is better than the normal premium gas i typically use. I am an occasional use firewood cutter so im not using my saws everyday, maybe just once a week. Is the ethanol free a better option? Ive read that Stihl recommends at least 89 octane so i was hesitant to get the ethanol free.

if the manual recommends 89, you run 87 and the engine seizes from detonation (which can be caused by low octane), you probably won't get warranty coverage. And you'll have to fix your saw's engine. That said I mistakenly ran my Stihls on 87 for years before I read that part of the manual, and they ran fine with no issues. You're taking a risk albeit a small one. If you modify the saw, especially advancing the timing, do not run the low octane stuff. Advancing timing increase the likelyhood of detonation.

E10 lasts 4-6 weeks easy. 6-8 if you put stabilizer in it. If you're using a gallon or two every weekend then you'll use up 5 gallons well before it gets too old.
 
I was taught in training it's 4% for every 1K in elevation but wherever your info came from may use 3%. I'm a service tech and have to D rate for burners and those are the numbers we are taught to use. So by my numbers at 5K you would be looking at 20% loss. Higher oct gas is a slower burning (kind of like a magnum powder if you reload), just for the heck of it I tried 91 oct E-free and 88 oct E-free and maybe it's my imagination but it didn't seem as much heat was coming off my engines at 7K elev with the 88 oct and I couldn't notice any difference in power. I mix at 40:1. Now this is on stock saws, this year will be my first year using a higher compression saw so I will have to see what happens.

Cut and paste from web search:Because higher octane gas burns slower, it is more resistant to knock when subjected to higher RPM and cylinder pressures. ... Higher ratios cause higher cylinder pressures and therefore cause the engine to be more susceptible to pre-detonation or knock.
Yeah sorry. I edited just Pryor to your quote & post after reading of @lone wolf link. I went back to what I had read in the past and revisited it...coped over below

"Lower octane gasoline like "regular" 87-octane gasoline can handle the least amount of compression before igniting. ... A "high-performance engine" has a higher compression ratio and requires higher-octane fuel to prevent it from prematurely igniting fuel before the spark plug does it".

I think diesel & jet fuel (jet A, jet B kerosene base) with low octane. Air has to be compressed to the nuts in turbines and fuel sprinkled on top BUT it needs a hot ignition. but not so bad when it vapours May have got me thinking down the wrong path as:
Flash points, autoignition volatility, burning temp, octane, blends and grades are all different and all make for interesting topics?

Further thinking I had in my mind that lower octane is fine for low compression (which it is) then putting 2&2 together with the low octane fuel in his area with the elevation. I think that all holds true too. I believe lone wolfs link said you make them match accordingly. I certainly got confused/ wrong when writing high octane causes pre ignition. My apologies to all.

It makes sense from my limited experience with that of what you say, which being higher octane burns slower. I bought a new 262 xp in summer of '92. I had been running 266 for Tree Thinning in BC. This was just months before Canada went to unleaded in '93.
Anyway,, It was the first saw we had heard of that was said to run the 92 octane. I ran contractors camp gas (87) Then I picked up my own job in the fall then tried the 92 octane at some point. Turned out 8 tanks equalled 5 tanks. That screwed me up because tanks were my clock as well my food bell after 2-3 tanks.
It would have cost less money by a fair bit in large quantities but never used it since? Not sure how that works with unleaded the same? Would it be 5/8 still be the difference? E10 is supposed to promise 2-3 miles less per gallon? It supposedly runs 40f cooler than e free going on recent memory with those numbers? I guess depends where you read. I have read links with opposite argument too in terms as engines running hotter?


Fuel is so much more entertaining to discuss in depth than mix oil and ratios?
...BUT it's never discussed in detail.
That's simply because it's a lot more in depth. When it's oil... "opinions are like azzholes..everybody has one"

just for the heck of it I tried 91 oct E-free and 88 oct E-free and maybe it's my imagination but it didn't seem as much heat was coming off my engines at 7K elev with the 88 oct and I couldn't notice any difference in power.
something to be said about matching compression with octane. Not sure about the heat thing? I do generally run 89 with my ported saws and have tried octane bust a few times with camp gas. Meh...same ol'.

So my understanding with compression at altitude will differ with atmosphere pressure. So if a brand of saw was consistently 150psi at sea level at a certain 'pressure' then that needs to be matched with the pressure at altitude. I personally have never done it. I have also heard 3.5% and you say 4%.
'False' reading can change at 1% they say. Scientifically, it my be at 4%?
 
Yeah sorry. I edited just Pryor to your quote & post after reading of @lone wolf link. I went back to what I had read in the past and revisited it...coped over below

"Lower octane gasoline like "regular" 87-octane gasoline can handle the least amount of compression before igniting. ... A "high-performance engine" has a higher compression ratio and requires higher-octane fuel to prevent it from prematurely igniting fuel before the spark plug does it".

I think diesel & jet fuel (jet A, jet B kerosene base) with low octane. Air has to be compressed to the nuts in turbines and fuel sprinkled on top BUT it needs a hot ignition. but not so bad when it vapours May have got me thinking down the wrong path as:
Flash points, autoignition volatility, burning temp, octane, blends and grades are all different and all make for interesting topics?

Further thinking I had in my mind that lower octane is fine for low compression (which it is) then putting 2&2 together with the low octane fuel in his area with the elevation. I think that all holds true too. I believe lone wolfs link said you make them match accordingly. I certainly got confused/ wrong when writing high octane causes pre ignition. My apologies to all.

It makes sense from my limited experience with that of what you say, which being higher octane burns slower. I bought a new 262 xp in summer of '92. I had been running 266 for Tree Thinning in BC. This was just months before Canada went to unleaded in '93.
Anyway,, It was the first saw we had heard of that was said to run the 92 octane. I ran contractors camp gas (87) Then I picked up my own job in the fall then tried the 92 octane at some point. Turned out 8 tanks equalled 5 tanks. That screwed me up because tanks were my clock as well my food bell after 2-3 tanks.
It would have cost less money by a fair bit in large quantities but never used it since? Not sure how that works with unleaded the same? Would it be 5/8 still be the difference? E10 is supposed to promise 2-3 miles less per gallon? It supposedly runs 40f cooler than e free going on recent memory with those numbers? I guess depends where you read. I have read links with opposite argument too in terms as engines running hotter?


Fuel is so much more entertaining to discuss in depth than mix oil and ratios?
...BUT it's never discussed in detail.
That's simply because it's a lot more in depth. When it's oil... "opinions are like azzholes..everybody has one"

something to be said about matching compression with octane. Not sure about the heat thing? I do generally run 89 with my ported saws and have tried octane bust a few times with camp gas. Meh...same ol'.

So my understanding with compression at altitude will differ with atmosphere pressure. So if a brand of saw was consistently 150psi at sea level at a certain 'pressure' then that needs to be matched with the pressure at altitude. I personally have never done it. I have also heard 3.5% and you say 4%.
False reading can change at 1% they say. Technology it my be 4%?
Then there is that Winter gas thing! Google that.
 
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