Glad I burn wood & not pellets

[jimbojango]

I had never heard of Aflotoxin before this thread. Did a quick search and found out it is a fungus. Fungus thrive in low ph enviroments. Makes me wonder what the base saturation of calcium might be in your soils. As big farmers, I assume everyone is doing soil testing for fertilizer recommendations. Fertilizer aint cheap so I just wonder if maybe some are skimping on lime or magnesium.

aflotoxin gets in corn when it tossles and then gets hot and dry and stays that way. Then at the end when it actually "makes corn" the corn gets a rain just in time to keep it from dying and puts corn on the ears and its loaded up with aflotoxin.

 

[muddstopper]

When you are in corn country, every farm grows it. So viable niche markets are tough to come by. I know corn marketing can be quite complex, just sooooo many variables. View attachment 338147 A semi trailer like this hauls approximately 1000 bushels or 50k lbs. I don't know how much the going trucking rate is currently, $2-4 per mile?

Thats the kind of dump trailer I was referring to. 1000 bushels @ $4= $4000. Would have to get better freight numbers and actual mileage, taking the middle number, $3000 for freight, $7 per bushel just to get it here. Yea, is isnt looking feasible . Didnt really think it was. Freight is always the killer. I once tried to get truck loads of materials out of New Mexico, damn freight cost more than the materials. Couldnt make it work then, and it hasnt gotten any better.

 

[jimbojango]

Thats the kind of dump trailer I was referring to. 1000 bushels @ $4= $4000. Would have to get better freight numbers and actual mileage, taking the middle number, $3000 for freight, $7 per bushel just to get it here. Yea, is isnt looking feasible . Didnt really think it was. Freight is always the killer. I once tried to get truck loads of materials out of New Mexico, damn freight cost more than the materials. Couldnt make it work then, and it hasnt gotten any better.

gotta stick grain on a train or it better not go more than 50 miles... you pay dearly for the frieght.

 

[Como]

I am familiar with my local fuel costs, we do not have access to corn, oil or coal. Well not practically.

So on the basis of the cost per million btu output.

Cord Wood - cost effective because it costs me $4 or so and I am not charging for my time. If I had to buy it in would probably be nearer $15

Propane, well it did hit nearly $4, now just over $2. Pretty much everyone I know buys in the summer, so its peak prices is irrelevant. On average $20.

Pellets are slightly less, but not by much. Say $18, you do not get the same efficiency conversion as you do with Propane.

I do not have Natural Gas, there is NG 10 miles form me and that would be much cheaper than pellets.

Electricity is $30. So would have been cheaper than Propane when it peaked.

So unless you like and can harvest wood for a nominal cost there is not a lot of difference.

I have friends with a very large house, they are off the grid, mentioned that their utilities are $25 a month. He did not include the wood. I think it takes him a couple of days to collect 12 cords in log lengths. He has a dump truck so it is just the gas, say $40? He cuts as he goes, so I do not know the time. He buys a new saw every 5 years or so, nothing special. His cost per million btu delivered is probably nearer $2.

 

[Como]

I looked up Natural Gas prices, varied between $7 and $14 last year. So the peak price was the same as the lowest for Propane.

 

[esshup]

Mom & Dad's house is on Propane. They fill the tanks once a year in the summer, and one tank usually lasts a year, but not in this winter (1,000 gal tanks). They have a whole house genset that runs on propane, and a pellet stove. We did the math, and the pellet stove is cheaper to run than the propane if propane is over $1.89/gal. They buy the pellets by the pallet when they're on sale, and get the low ash kind. The store where they buy them (same place sold them the pellet stove and installed it) will deliver the pellets and stack them in the pole barn for them at no additional cost if they can wait until the stores trailer is full and they are making deliveries. Usually one bag lasts 24 hrs.

Mom & Dad went with pellets because of their age, less mess in the house and it's easier to move/store them. They are in their upper 80's. For them, it was a no brainer - replace fireplace with a pellet stove insert.

 

[cantoo]

Como, you might want to price out your friends alternative energy costs including their batteries, windmill, solar array, gas for generator when sun or wind is down, etc. I also have a friend off grid and It's crazy the amount of time and money he has invested especially the time.

 

[Como]

Time is tricky because like this it is a hobby as well.

Connecting to the grid would be far far too expensive, he had a Diesel Generator. So the valid comparison would be between the PV system and the cost of continuing to operate the Diesel. I know he has to start the Diesel every now and then, usually it will not come on by itself unless it snows solidly for several days.

Grid tie would be better but as I said not an option.

 

[muddstopper]

I dont tnink I want to be totally off grid, but when I build my next house, it will be as self sufficient as I can make it. A lot of things can be done for alternative energy if your willing to invest some time and live with a little less convience. Where you live has a lot to do with it as well. Here in the mountains of NC, even the winters aint all that bad. temps dip to subzero, but they dont stay there more than a day or two. I have been watching a few of my buddies as they develope ways to save on electricity. None of them is really concentrating on making power, just saving it. Wood pays a small part, but other options such as geothermal, solar collectors, and yea one buddy even built his own solar panels, not to supplement his house power, but to run his solar powered water pumps. Investments in saving power will put more money in your pocket than trying to produce power.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Investments in saving power will put more money in your pocket than trying to produce power.

I totally agree, and it's the way I've always lived....

SR

 

[cantoo]

Unless there isn't any power nearby I just don't think it's worth it to be off grid. At least with my lifestyle I don't. I like to build things with steel and wood so that means welding, cutting steel, . All big power consumers. I prefer to reduce my power consumption however I can or at least use the power to make money.

 

[muddstopper]

back in the mid 90's. I did a ton of research into solar power. I had just built a 3658 sqft 5bedroom, 3 bath house. Everything was totally electric. No wood, no gas. at that time, the solar panels, battery pack, inverters, phase converters, the whole nine yards was going to cost somewhere in the $13000 range. For that much money, I was supposed to be able to walk in, flip the switch and live just like being on the grid power. If i had spent the money back then, it would have paid for itself by now. I didnt and sold the house when the kids moved out. I dont know what a similar system would cost now, a lot more I would think.

My future home will be a timber frame or log frame structure. Where it will be built is on a south facing slope above a large stream. I intend to use that stream to power a generator. I will also use solar collectors to heat water and heat the house. The stream water temps adverage around 57F year round and I plan on heat exchangers to use that water to cool the house in the summer. I will have a wood furnace of some kind. I will also be hooked to the grid, but believe i can produce the biggest majority of the power I consume. The hydro system isnt that expensive to build, you just have to have the water to make it work. Solar collectors are easy to build and with proper sizing and enough storage, can provide a lot of heat. Solar panels are expensive and require lots of maintenance, and while i may incorporate a few in my plans, i will produce the majority of electricity from the hydro system

 

[jimbojango]

back in the mid 90's. I did a ton of research into solar power. I had just built a 3658 sqft 5bedroom, 3 bath house. Everything was totally electric. No wood, no gas. at that time, the solar panels, battery pack, inverters, phase converters, the whole nine yards was going to cost somewhere in the $13000 range. For that much money, I was supposed to be able to walk in, flip the switch and live just like being on the grid power. If i had spent the money back then, it would have paid for itself by now. I didnt and sold the house when the kids moved out. I dont know what a similar system would cost now, a lot more I would think.

My future home will be a timber frame or log frame structure. Where it will be built is on a south facing slope above a large stream. I intend to use that stream to power a generator. I will also use solar collectors to heat water and heat the house. The stream water temps adverage around 57F year round and I plan on heat exchangers to use that water to cool the house in the summer. I will have a wood furnace of some kind. I will also be hooked to the grid, but believe i can produce the biggest majority of the power I consume. The hydro system isnt that expensive to build, you just have to have the water to make it work. Solar collectors are easy to build and with proper sizing and enough storage, can provide a lot of heat. Solar panels are expensive and require lots of maintenance, and while i may incorporate a few in my plans, i will produce the majority of electricity from the hydro system

Solar system to power my 1850 sqft house is 11 grand installed. I just priced one a couple weeks ago. They told me "the best thing you can do is put a new 30 year roof on and put the panels on the week after, then you don't have to worry about moving anything for 30 years" made sense... until we get a hail storm in which case the insurance would pay to replace both except the deductible. Makes sense to me. That was for a "no electric bill" system that has more of a chance of putting power back on the grid than taking it off.

 

[cantoo]

$11,000 system that provides enough power for your 1850 sq ft house and puts power back to the grid? I think you should get that in writing.
Willie G, what say you? I know you have a system, was it $11,000? My opinion of Jimbojangles rest on your hands. Nothing personal but there ain't no system anywhere near that efficient anywhere near that price up here in Canucksky land.

 

[lmbeachy]

This is what was in the newspaper this morning

 

[muddstopper]

$11,000 system that provides enough power for your 1850 sq ft house and puts power back to the grid? I think you should get that in writing.
Willie G, what say you? I know you have a system, was it $11,000? My opinion of Jimbojangles rest on your hands. Nothing personal but there ain't no system anywhere near that efficient anywhere near that price up here in Canucksky land.

I havent researched anything lately, so wont comment on the $11000 quote. I will say not everybody uses the same amount of electricity. Back when I had three boys at home, my power bill was $300 a month, more in the winter time. Boys grew up, left home and power bill now runs $125month, just about year round. Of course now I heat with wood, and have a preheater on my elect. hotwater heater. Of course the preheater only works if I have a fire in the stove. We use less hot water, wash fewer clothes, fewer lights on in the house, less food cooked. I guess i could take my $125 power bill, check the price of my electricity and determine the size system I would need to do solar and see what the cost would be. At $11000 it should take about 7.3 years for the system to pay for itself, if nothing breaks before then. For a young person, planning on living in their current home for the next 10 years or more, it would make sense. All things are relevant, If it reduces a $300 month power bill to zero, then payback would a little over 3 yrs. If you added back the increased resell value to the home, it might take even less time to break even. Lots of varibles to determine cost vs ROI.

 

[hedge hog]

This is what was in the newspaper this morning

and what they don't tell you is that you can burn corn ,milo or wheat in it's place.
only a handful of pellet stove manufactures will say this because the didn't go in with the pellet producers to tie the market up
so they could control the there income.
but all pellet stoves will burn these fuels if you try it.

 

[jimbojango]

$11,000 system that provides enough power for your 1850 sq ft house and puts power back to the grid? I think you should get that in writing.
Willie G, what say you? I know you have a system, was it $11,000? My opinion of Jimbojangles rest on your hands. Nothing personal but there ain't no system anywhere near that efficient anywhere near that price up here in Canucksky land.

I dug my last years worth of electric bills out and i only pay $0.11 a KWH. My electric bill hasn't been over $80 in any month in that year. I have a relatively well insulated house and we have high efficiency everything and are all electric except the wood stove and have LED light bulbs. I'd guess that i don't need an entire roof worth of panels because our KWH usage isn't that high. Maybe the company i talked to is running a good scam. BTW i can write $7000 of my taxes instantly and amortize the rest the way the tax code looks.

 

[jimbojango]

and what they don't tell you is that you can burn corn ,milo or wheat in it's place.
only a handful of pellet stove manufactures will say this because the didn't go in with the pellet producers to tie the market up
so they could control the there income.
but all pellet stoves will burn these fuels if you try it.

i'd hate to walk into a feed store and pay $9 for a 50 lbs sack of corn for heat but it'd beat freezing by a lot.

 

[jimbojango]

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/gridtie.html#SolarSkyAstronergy
That is NOT who i had come look at the house and do the quote, but it does give some real pricing. That website doesnt include install or the actual hook up so it goes back on the grid with surplus energy. I'd guess install at like 4 grand on a 1000 KWH package because of what some guys that install them have said. Don't take it for gospel.