Going semi-pro+ chainsawmilling

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ZachAK

Maker of much sawdust
AS Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
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Location
Sitka, Alaska
Looking for some seasoned advice from those who are chainsawmilling professionally on a regular basis. I'll be stepping up my milling in the New Year considerably. Probably have a good two or three weeks of milling full-time lined up.

I've been milling professionally on a very part-time basis for five years. I just have a basic set-up, a 36" Alaskan mill. Mostly use my 066, but I also have a couple 076AV Supers that I'm working into, just making sure they are solid before taking on more remote jobs.
I use a 2X12 for rails, and consistently mill even slabs to 32". So 2X12's are working, but I'd consider upgrading to rails if there's a compelling reason.
I don't really see milling much beyond 36", so I'll probably just stick with my current mill.
I'm currently filing by hand, and pretty happy with it.
Most of my milling is somewhat remote, so weight is also a factor in any upgrades.

So: I get paid well for milling, and before I bump up production, I'm willing to invest back into my milling set-up.

If you're a professional, I'd love your advice. If you're a very part-time miller, I'm open to hearing your advice, but I'd appreciate knowing your experience level, more or less.

Thank you!

Photo of my most recent project...installed last month.

IMG_2456.JPG
 
The best upgrade in any chainsaw scenario is sharpness of chain. Nothing can beat proper square ground. People who have tested side by side had 40% better cut times milling with square vs round. I haven't tested myself as I had my square grinder from the get go. It is a big investment, but would pay itself off in time with those kinds of time savings.
 
The best upgrade in any chainsaw scenario is sharpness of chain. Nothing can beat proper square ground. People who have tested side by side had 40% better cut times milling with square vs round. I haven't tested myself as I had my square grinder from the get go. It is a big investment, but would pay itself off in time with those kinds of time savings.
Thanks Rob. I sure appreciate the wisdom. Shorter milling times is perfect, and worth the investment.

Can I ask...when you're in the field, do you touch up the chain by hand? And how difficult is it? I consider myself pretty good with a round file, and know what I'm doing. Thank you!
 
Square is harder freehand. Could if I had to, but I prefer to carry spare chains and swap them out. Even with round it is quicker than touching up in the field and touching up on the grinder is quicker and more consistent in the end.
 
The best upgrade in any chainsaw scenario is sharpness of chain. Nothing can beat proper square ground. People who have tested side by side had 40% better cut times milling with square vs round. I haven't tested myself as I had my square grinder from the get go. It is a big investment, but would pay itself off in time with those kinds of time savings.
I have been reading similar information that sharpness of chain and the extra material around a square grind edge vs. a round edge is faster not sure that it is 40% however even 20 - 25% is a lot. Have you considered carbide square grind? If so do most people out there get there diamond wheels from one of the sponsors here like Bailey's? Any tips on grinding in general?
I have not run carbide chain yet however I'm thinking of buying some soon. Just need some tip's from others out there first. The only reason why I'm going to buy some carbide chain is I got lucky and picked up a Foley industrial carbide grinder for a song that is just missing a pulley and belt to get started with either silicon or diamond wheels. What kind of tips do people have on a chain holder off the shelf or homemade? Thanks.
 
Stihl brand Rapid Duro carbide is roughly 60% of the cut speed of round file, which means in my case about a 30% loss in productivity.
Forester carbide is even slower, slow enough I actually threw them all away after only a few min of frustrated cutting in clean wood, which is something I never do.
Normally I try everything I can to get my tools (chains) to function well first...

The only reason carbide is not 40% less productive cutting is because it needs sharpened half as often, so that saves 10 min each time it doesn't need sharpening, offsetting slightly the loss of cutting speed.

I give some of my guys carbide chains, because when they try and sharpen their own chains they end up way slower than factory carbide & often fight to cut at all, which is a major loss of productivity & morale.

A couple of these guys get a season of personal firewood cutting out of their own saws with carbide & no ability to touch up, so no sharpening.

Carbide lasts longer in dirty wood, just no gravel or steel!!

Carbide chain is often completely gone after a touch of gravel, cement, or embeded steel, due to the teeth nearly always fracturing away lengthwise across the top in my experience.

I find mine most often can't be re-sharpened, or ground back after hitting steel, concrete, or rock of any sort.

Barbed wire, nails, gravel, all mean a new very expensive chain in my experience, whereas the same incident can normally be ground out or filed away on steel chains.
 
Stihl brand Rapid Duro carbide is roughly 60% of the cut speed of round file, which means in my case about a 30% loss in productivity.
Forester carbide is even slower, slow enough I actually threw them all away after only a few min of frustrated cutting in clean wood, which is something I never do.
Normally I try everything I can to get my tools (chains) to function well first...

The only reason carbide is not 40% less productive cutting is because it needs sharpened half as often, so that saves 10 min each time it doesn't need sharpening, offsetting slightly the loss of cutting speed.

I give some of my guys carbide chains, because when they try and sharpen their own chains they end up way slower than factory carbide & often fight to cut at all, which is a major loss of productivity & morale.

A couple of these guys get a season of personal firewood cutting out of their own saws with carbide & no ability to touch up, so no sharpening.

Carbide lasts longer in dirty wood, just no gravel or steel!!

Carbide chain is often completely gone after a touch of gravel, cement, or embeded steel, due to the teeth nearly always fracturing away lengthwise across the top in my experience.

I find mine most often can't be re-sharpened, or ground back after hitting steel, concrete, or rock of any sort.

Barbed wire, nails, gravel, all mean a new very expensive chain in my experience, whereas the same incident can normally be ground out or filed away on steel chains.
Yea the speed can be slower for sure. Did you change the grind any from factory? Thanks for the input.
 
Yea the speed can be slower for sure. Did you change the grind any from factory? Thanks for the input.

I have played around with them a fair bit if not ruined entirely first, but I pretty much returned to the factory specs & have ground them that way since when they last long enough.
Most things I tried to change on the edge profile ended up just breaking the tops off the teeth in various ways without much cutting use, or cut slower than factory grind.
 
I will say, carbide is worth trying & has advantages.
Most of the slowness for Stihl carbide is due to additional thickness of the cutters bending chips around & thus sucking power.
There is less disadvantage to carbide concerning speed of cut in very hard dry wood (Vs. steel chain) in my experience.
Looking at the way end grain cuts, there's a chance it may not effect the cut speed as much when milling as it does cross cutting.
I haven't personally tried carbide milling, but I intend to at some point out of curiosity.
...assuming I ever end up with a log that doesn't have lots of steel stains and/or doesn't play electro dance tunes on my metal detector.
I do know when I started CS milling the learning curve on sharpening was steep.
I consistently file chains that blast through logs bucking 15% + faster than factory grind, but found the same chain has no advantage when milling.
Milling requires a much more exacting cutter edge for good finish & ease of cutting, but yet still produces much finer & smaller chips.
 
I will say, carbide is worth trying & has advantages.
Most of the slowness for Stihl carbide is due to additional thickness of the cutters bending chips around & thus sucking power.
There is less disadvantage to carbide concerning speed of cut in very hard dry wood (Vs. steel chain) in my experience.
Looking at the way end grain cuts, there's a chance it may not effect the cut speed as much when milling as it does cross cutting.
I haven't personally tried carbide milling, but I intend to at some point out of curiosity.
...assuming I ever end up with a log that doesn't have lots of steel stains and/or doesn't play electro dance tunes on my metal detector.
I do know when I started CS milling the learning curve on sharpening was steep.
I consistently file chains that blast through logs bucking 15% + faster than factory grind, but found the same chain has no advantage when milling.
Milling requires a much more exacting cutter edge for good finish & ease of cutting, but yet still produces much finer & smaller chips.
I figure that the exacting cutter edge is to hard unless one has a good machine grinder for carbide with a diamond wheel. This is the reason most people do not jump right into running a carbide chain.
 
I figure that the exacting cutter edge is to hard unless one has a good machine grinder for carbide with a diamond wheel. This is the reason most people do not jump right into running a carbide chain.
I don't know about the diamond wheels for smaller size chain as I have not bought them to try out to get good square grind point or edge. The bigger chain like a 404 should be no problem to get good grind angle with enough room for the diamond wheel. What have others out there tried? Thanks.
 
I have been reading similar information that sharpness of chain and the extra material around a square grind edge vs. a round edge is faster not sure that it is 40% however even 20 - 25% is a lot. Have you considered carbide square grind? If so do most people out there get there diamond wheels from one of the sponsors here like Bailey's? Any tips on grinding in general?
I have not run carbide chain yet however I'm thinking of buying some soon. Just need some tip's from others out there first. The only reason why I'm going to buy some carbide chain is I got lucky and picked up a Foley industrial carbide grinder for a song that is just missing a pulley and belt to get started with either silicon or diamond wheels. What kind of tips do people have on a chain holder off the shelf or homemade? Thanks.
The 40% was from timed cuts from another trusted member who knows his stuff, from race chains to work chains to milling. I am more than willing to take his word for it. I'd time some cuts myself, but don't have anything but square for my milling bar. Never had a carbide chain and don't see myself spending the money. Carbide requires special diamond sharpening wheels and one for square ground does not exist. Nor do I think it would be a good idea to try to have one made as the razor sharp corners of a square ground chain would likely snap right off if they were carbide. Carbide cutters always have 'blunt' cutter angles so to speak.
 
This is good to hear about the faster cutting. I would agree after say one log cut for sure. I did not know that a diamond wheel may not be available for a square grind. Thanks.
 
This is good to hear about the faster cutting. I would agree after say one log cut for sure. I did not know that a diamond wheel may not be available for a square grind. Thanks.
Looking at Bailey's better carbide chain gives the following warning: Cutting speed is still significantly reduced as compared to standard chisel chain. However the chisel carbide chain is preferred for burl wood cutting near the ground. The chain at best has a blunt tip or edge for sure.
 
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