Gyppo Logger

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windthrown

361 Junkie
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About Gyppo Loggers, AKA: Gypo Loggers, as spelled north of the 49th parallel, we have this from Wikipedia:

A gyppo logger (sometimes spelled "gypo logger") is a lumberjack who runs or works for a small scale logging operation that is independent from an established sawmill or lumber company. The gyppo system is one of two main patterns of the organization of logging labor in the Pacific Northwest, the other being the "company logger." Gyppo loggers were originally condemned by the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) as strikebreakers.


After the founding of a government-sponsored
company union, the Loyal Legion of Loggers and Lumbermen, weakened the influence of the IWW on the logging industry, gyppos were seen as a component of the timber business in a less ideologically charged context.

I resemble the less ideologically charged context myself, rather more than less from the literature of Ken Kesey. I so hate the unions. Union people here want to sh*t and get paid for it.

 
I thank the unions because they did a lot of good. Also, wages were higher amongst the loggers in these parts when there were a few unionized crews. Those wages are about the same now and there are no union crews that I am aware of. Correlation?

In today's anti-worker atmosphere, I should think we would be embracing unions but the brainwashing has worked too well for that.
 
Only 8% of the private work force in this county it unionized. Union workers make 17% more money on average than the typical non-union worker.

That's all I know about the subject.
 
For a long time I despised the unions, mostly cause of the boeing idiots, they have a gimme gimme attitude and a f u its not in my job description work ethic.

I'm not so sure anymore.

On one hand work is being farmed out to other non unionized country's, because the unions kept asking for more and more money (money they arguable don't need)

On the other hand unions bring up the wages for everyone around, and right now taint no one making a decent wage unless they are union, and then they seem to be making more then they are worth?

Yes I am thankful for the 40hr week and overtime, though the child labor laws have gotten out of hand... (why can't a 16 year old work along side their parents? or at a job they are interested in? old enough to drive and operate a deadly motor vehicle should be good to operate equipment)
 
On one hand work is being farmed out to other non unionized country's, because the unions kept asking for more and more money (money they arguable don't need)

On the other hand unions bring up the wages for everyone around, and right now taint no one making a decent wage unless they are union, and then they seem to be making more then they are worth?

I guess the way I see it, and it may be lopsided because I live at US poverty level. Why would I pay someone $40 an hr to put a nut on the end of a bolt when I could pay someone oversees to do it for $3. I can't afford most US stuff so I have to go to import superstores like Wally World. There are a lot of people in the US in the same boat I am. Although unions bring wages up, in my mind, that also brings cost of goods and services up.
Of which there is a limit to the wage increase vs a maximum push for the cost of goods by any company. I am not an economics expert as my stated income shows, but I do not see how unions benefit us in a global economy other than cutting our own throats.

eg. It was only shortly after our Pres passed the open trade agreement that our mills in this area gave us the ultimatum that unless we renegotiate our contract with you to less per 1000 then we will no longer purchase your wood, this was directly related to the drop in lumber prices shortly after the trade agreement. And that was the exact explanation the mills gave for the price cut.
How can a union demand more for wages in an economy situation like I just stated?

I don't want to be the turd in the punch bowl but I have heard that 1/4 of the US lives on some sort of gov assistance and it is only getting worse. How can we keep going with any industry if we can't compete globally, and how can we compete globally if our cost of doing business is so much greater that everyone else?

I would like to charge more for what I do, but the market will not bear it in this area sad to say.

Am I off? If I am, I don't mind someone educating me....
 
Though this is dangerously getting political...

These trade agreements are what is hamstringing honest americans, NAFTA, TPP, WTO, all are about useless, and bent more on reducing the cost for the owners of mega corps, the same assholes that fund most politicians...

What we need is to cut all trade with everyone and worry about our selfs for a change, The united states has nearly everything it needs to be self reliant without global trade, why imported junk is cheaper I can't say, cause i can remember when imported usually meant expensive.

We have all the food we want

all the natural resources we will ever need.

nearly all the minerals we could want

What we are missing is what has gone away, skilled labor. Somehow american skilled labor has been strangled and now we have to really on imports for **** we used to make right here, and honestly we made/make a better product.

The unions may be partly to blame I don't honestly know anymore, But I do know that relying on someone else is a fools way to lose everything.
 
What we need is to cut all trade with everyone and worry about our selfs for a change, The united states has nearly everything it needs to be self reliant without global trade, why imported junk is cheaper I can't say, cause i can remember when imported usually meant expensive.

I think you are onto something here. I think of recent, we have given preference to the minority (not being racial or even talking about any ethnic or religious group) and not the majority. The minority is seen as more important than the majority.
When you live in a house as a family, do you neglect the sons and daughters in favor of someone else?

someone needs to stick up for the sons and daughters of the United States again.... Just my opinion
 
I don't know of many jobs that consider a 40hr week a normal work week... well aside from bankers and doctors.

Yes I am thankful for the 40hr week and overtime, though the child labor laws have gotten out of hand... (why can't a 16 year old work along side their parents? or at a job they are interested in? old enough to drive and operate a deadly motor vehicle should be good to operate equipment)
 
One pretty old song comes to mind (and Lorne Greene in particular), part goes as "...I owe my soul to the company store..."
You will live a life which we permit you to do, with resources we will provide you and we permit you to obtain a f**k with anyone and including you who might give ya a peek on what and where else you can get for the same amount of labor/money... First leap to slavery with a politicaly correct name (like " All-around employee care program"), thats where the unions have a good place. I´m no expert in PNW logging history, but from what I´ve stumbled upon, there were several comps running their bussines alike there, so no surprise unions formed. That the union oficials are now mostly just what they are, just another a$$hole greedy managers who don´t know a **** about the trade and job of people they "represent", that´s other thing, one to get rid of and non-original to basics of the unions.
What of this I see in current America´s present from a good distance does not belong here, but close rensemblance in some spots...
 
I think you are onto something here. I think of recent, we have given preference to the minority (not being racial or even talking about any ethnic or religious group) and not the majority. The minority is seen as more important than the majority.
When you live in a house as a family, do you neglect the sons and daughters in favor of someone else?

someone needs to stick up for the sons and daughters of the United States again.... Just my opinion
I am definitely not a racist but i am for damned sure a culturalist-disliking the welfare culture for one. Can't afford Bomba care and make to much for Medicaid. The Union never did much for me. worked next to some union drywallers/carpenters that were pretty good hands. St.Regis and Champion international were both union timber companies were i am from, both are gone now but one of my mentors is enjoying his union check every month. Its always seemed like private s.s.i to me (and just as corrupt). We as a nation need to remember that getting off our arses is good for us. I am also w/Northman- if your old enough to drive a 3500lb. weipon you should be able to work in the industry. My 15 yr.old wants to be a Smoke Jumper-he can fling himself from an airplane but i cant get work comp for him to run a skidder or bump knots. :angry:
 
There are a lot of rare earth metals that we don't have that we need to run our computers and cell phones. Just one example of do need some other countries for products.
 
self reliance is the key to life ... no one said life was fair or easy! this is why we make our own way, either punching a clock for someone else or the feast and famine of self reliance. doing what we do to make the best of our situation delt by our own attitude, aptitude and ambition is our destiny which we owe to no one but ourself. i choose self reliance by my own ambition.
 
There are a lot of rare earth metals that we don't have that we need to run our computers and cell phones. Just one example of do need some other countries for products.

Need is such a definite word...

We have rare earth mines here, they just aren't as massive or cheap to run as the ones in china.

Titanium is anouther we are short on, Russia has the most, we are #2 in that game.

Could you folks imagine what would happen if suddenly cheap steel, aluminium, or copper was suddenly had tariffs to compete with domestic products? The rust belt would wake up over night...

Not to mention all these timber trade deals that are currently getting kicked around, America should be exporting timber, instead we are importing it? WTF! Stop buying lumber stamped china or canada and suddenly logging would be a career worth living for.
 
The "Next Generation Gyppo" will most likely log and mill there own timber as well as market it. When the "value added tax" makes its way into our revenue i dont see that there will be enough $ left in the log to support the Gyppo , the mill and a lumberyard
 
Need is such a definite word...

We have rare earth mines here, they just aren't as massive or cheap to run as the ones in china.

Titanium is anouther we are short on, Russia has the most, we are #2 in that game.

Could you folks imagine what would happen if suddenly cheap steel, aluminium, or copper was suddenly had tariffs to compete with domestic products? The rust belt would wake up over night...

Not to mention all these timber trade deals that are currently getting kicked around, America should be exporting timber, instead we are importing it? WTF! Stop buying lumber stamped china or canada and suddenly logging would be a career worth living for.
I guess the way I see it, and it may be lopsided because I live at US poverty level. Why would I pay someone $40 an hr to put a nut on the end of a bolt when I could pay someone oversees to do it for $3. I can't afford most US stuff so I have to go to import superstores like Wally World. There are a lot of people in the US in the same boat I am. Although unions bring wages up, in my mind, that also brings cost of goods and services up.
Of which there is a limit to the wage increase vs a maximum push for the cost of goods by any company. I am not an economics expert as my stated income shows, but I do not see how unions benefit us in a global economy other than cutting our own throats.

eg. It was only shortly after our Pres passed the open trade agreement that our mills in this area gave us the ultimatum that unless we renegotiate our contract with you to less per 1000 then we will no longer purchase your wood, this was directly related to the drop in lumber prices shortly after the trade agreement. And that was the exact explanation the mills gave for the price cut.
How can a union demand more for wages in an economy situation like I just stated?

I don't want to be the turd in the punch bowl but I have heard that 1/4 of the US lives on some sort of gov assistance and it is only getting worse. How can we keep going with any industry if we can't compete globally, and how can we compete globally if our cost of doing business is so much greater that everyone else?

I would like to charge more for what I do, but the market will not bear it in this area sad to say.

Am I off? If I am, I don't mind someone educating me....
.........yup, and yup. you boys got a pretty good handle on this. now what can we do about it? is the majority really to lazy? or have they been brainwashed? are we the few who could not be brain washed? how many of us are there really? i would venture to say not enough.
 
Unfortunately it seems politics controls who we do business with. And now the trend with politicians is that it doesn't matter what WE want, they kind of go there own way and pass stuff regardless. I don't remember getting to vote on the trade stuff.
We are very good at spending as a country, so why the need to lower costs. We just make more debt and pass extensions. It's ok if 25% of the people can't make it without the government. We'll just drive that nail in further.
It's like the whole coal plant issue here in MT. Pres and enviros want them shut down. We have no other means of energy here. So, we will have to import it or pay through the nose to fabricate something else.
I for one cannot pay more for energy. Even if they stick it to the plants to scrub their air more, that will cost us more. (Big business does not take the hit, the consumer does) We are 49 in this nation for income per capita last I heard. Maybe they should think about us who make up the states population rather than what looks good to them. You can't get blood out of a turnip. Lets just increase the number of people dependent on fed money.

I don't know what we can do about it.... seems like a train wreck coming
 
A guy can always attempt to opt out.

Grow yer own food.

Build as much as you can from what is around you.

Barter for what you can't build or grow.

Primative as can be, but no taxes and no money needed, just a decent amount of acreage.

Granted its nearly impossible to live a normal american life... so having some side jobs here and there to make some spending cash to keep the lights on, and buy the occasional pair of pants or what not... But I truly believe that a guy could ignore most of the world politics and live without the rest of the countries support.

Hel there are even micro hydro/wind/solar generation units that can be built on the cheap or free.

Eventually if enough folks say to hel with it, and stop making money for the government to waste on **** we don't need or want, there won't be enough money for the government to wipe its own ass... so they will have to turn all this mess around and fix us... but how long will it take who knows?
 
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