Hanging tops and chainsaw safety...

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Montana_Sam

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
63
Reaction score
93
Location
NW Montana
Hello all,

Attached is a link to a video...it depicts one of hundreds of removals we do each season in which the top of a large conifer must be hung from itself during the take-down and removal process. You all have done this.



I'm curious how you other climber guys secure your trim saws, if at all, during the hang? I ask because this past year I've been hit twice, pretty damn hard, by the saw when hanging tops. The first time I hung a big leaning fir and during the "ride" the saw whipped around and hit me in the helmet, and nearly knocked me unconscious. And just yesterday I hung a big spruce top and the saw whipped around and smashed up my arm, leaving a several gashes from the cutter teeth. Of course the saw is off and chain break set, but the whipping and swinging of the saw has got to be preventable....and you've got maybe 1 second to secure it.

Any thoughts? Advice?
Thanks
 
You shouldn't have to take that much top, unless someone's rushin yu.

I keep my saw clipped on the saddle during rides, and rarely use saw lanyards, unless I know the ride's gonna be ultra violent, cuz the ropeman can't let it run due to obstacles, like houses n stuff.

If you have no experienced roper I'd go a helluvalot smaller top than the dude in your vid!

Most pro's use saw lanyards, but I'm an outlaw, and think they're dangerous.

Jomoco
 
Not a lanyard guy either. I use a rock exotica transporter to hook my saws to. A big paddle biner works pretty decent too. You can reach over with one hand and hang it up on your saddle.
I'm with jomo on not trying to get a ride like that. Let it run or take a smaller top if you don't have much room to.
 
I'm such an old wuss now I go up high enough to do the trigger cut with a handsaw!

I've taken chips off my hardhat during ultra violent rides too, with my 365 flailing about!

Fug that!

But if yu have to be a cowboy!

Get a good hardhat and pro bull riding vest!

The older I get, the less I like to shake the fug outta trees I'm removin.

Jomoco
 
Usually when we take a big top like that it's because theres something sketchy, like a split top or weird kink in the stock, that the climber doesn't want to climb above.

Can one of you guys explain the technique of letting the rope run?? I've never heard of this. We use a porta-wrap, super basic rigging system.
 
I would say move slower. Get the back cut with a good hinge and have the groundie tension the rope, hang your saw and then hold on and then have them pull. Have the groundie take the estimated wraps but don't hold the rope tight in their hands, let it run through. Leather gloves, not latex coated help with running rope. If you have a talented groundie you should barely feel that top. That looks like an excellent way to destroy climbing saws IMHO
 
Usually when we take a big top like that it's because theres something sketchy, like a split top or weird kink in the stock, that the climber doesn't want to climb above.

Can one of you guys explain the technique of letting the rope run?? I've never heard of this. We use a porta-wrap, super basic rigging system.

It's like the difference of coming to a nice gradual stop at a light vs panic braking when someone pulls out in front of you. Instead of holding the rope tight, let it run through the portawrap as much as you have room for and turn some of that energy into heat.

Also worth mentioning is leaving some mass dampening branches. A few limbs near the top of the spar on the back or sides that won't interfere with the top will slow down some of the violent movement of the stem.
Chasing your cut as much as you feel comfortable with helps too. Cutting that hingewood up thin will lessen the tops pull on the spar and therefore lessen the recoil as well.
 
I see, that sounds like a great trick. We'll have to try that on our next hang.

I never realized some guys dont climb with a saw lanyard....why? What are the safety risks associated with keeping your saw on a lanyard?

And yes, it is a great way to destroy climbing saws, they get smashed up pretty good.
 
For me it was inadvertent jerks to the lanyard doing overhead zip cuts n stuff.

You'll find this is one of those unforgiving professions where if it can happen, it will happen, provided yu do it long enough?

One of the scariest moments I've ever had way the fug up there over 100 feet was a simple western cedar removal, no roping involved, just simple hinge n push laterals.

The problem was my steelcore lanyard's tail hangin down ten feet, with a fuggin thimble at the end.

It was simply a matter of time before one of those hinge n push laterals mingled just right with that fuggin thimble, get caught in a tight V, and apply it's entire weight on my saddle, like the devil givin yu a tug down into your grave!

Now I wrap my lanyard tail round my waist doin that ****.

Jomoco
 
So in case it's not clear from the above replies, "let it run" means that once the top begins to fall, you don't want it to stop until it reaches the ground. In your vid, the top falls and then stops as it hangs from the rigging block. That violent stop is what's throwing your climber around--Yikes!

It takes a good groundie to let it run when the top hits the rigging block, but then gradually put on the brakes so the top slows on its approach to the ground. Too many wraps on the porty will work against you. You want to hear the load sing as the rope runs thru the block, but then slow down closer to the ground.
 
Letting the rope slip through your hands, or leaning back a bit and taking a few steps toward the tree when the chunk hits the rope... or both... will let the load hit the rope gently and ease into the descent. Of course, you shouldn't be handling a rigging line without gloves. Most people get a pretty good feel for it by the end of a single removal, but it takes practice to get good at it. That's best to learn on a simple removal where there aren't any targets you have to avoid. Lots better than trying to learn it on a job where the climber is blowing the top out first thing. A single wrap on the Porty and rig some limbs down for practice, on a job where you would normally just drop them, is worth the extra time and the longer day... because when you're chunking down big wood, you really need to do this to avoid serious mishaps. Leaving a crater in a client's lawn might be a lot of headaches if he's one of those guys who thinks his yard should look like a putting green. I'd rather have a good groundie that can ease them down than listen to a homeowner screaming about how we're turning his lawn into a moon landscape.
 
A good Rope man could make that smooth as to not jerk you around. No reason to have that much shock. Let her run, or take a smaller top. Even then let her run. Get some dynasorb rope. Try a safblock or thunder sling.
I would be pissed off if some groundsman dead stopped me like that. I'm telling you, a good groundy and it would hardly shake. Let her run and don't brake it all at once . Respect to your climbers though.
 
For me it was inadvertent jerks to the lanyard doing overhead zip cuts n stuff.


Now I wrap my lanyard tail round my waist doin that ****.

Jomoco

I'll DEFINATELY do that from now on.THX
 
Damn! That looked to be a s****y ride. My .02 Take smaller tops. More importantly put that portawrap to work! Once your ground guys figure it out it's smooth as butter! :) Almost no shake at all....
 
Right as the top begins to pivot, (right about 7 seconds into the video) it looks like it is pushing the remaining stem backwards. It looks like this starts the stem swaying, and then the top is caught by the rigging and obviously adds to the ride.

Is that initial pushing because the top is large? Would a narrower undercut help to reduce it by inducing the force while the top is still more vertical?

With my limited knowledge in physics and trying to apply it here, it seems to me that this pushing has to happen. I'm just trying to think if there would be a way to have little to no sway starting before the top falls into the rigging.
 
If your set on testing the structural integrity of the trunk below you everytime, theres multiple ways to clip your saw closer/tighter to your saddle and still use a lanyard.
 
Back
Top