Hardy H2 water loss

[Canatct]

Hi all. I have a problem with a Hardy H2 that’s losing water. The auto fill isn’t connected so I have been adding water manually as needed, which has always been just a few oz and not that often. All of a sudden I noticed the water level in the condenser tank lower than normal. It’s not empty but the water level is low. I add approximately 6-8 oz and the water immediately drops to the previous low level. It was manufactured in 1995 (or 96) and has always worked great until this.
Any suggestions on what might be going on would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Matfam]

I don’t know anything specific about your boiler. However, I am a licensed boiler technician. You have a leak someplace. It’s imperative that you find it and get the auto feed connected to maintain someplace between 15-30 psig (most normal boilers).

 

[NSMaple1]

Ya but is the Hardy a pressurized boiler?

Definitely sounds like a leak of some kind, if it drops as soon as you re-fill (I think that's what you said?). But it must be a high-up leak, or else it would empty itself completely. But - 6-8 oz. isn't very much water, so I'm a little unclear on what is going on.

(I am not familiar at all with a Hardy itself).

 

[Canatct]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong , but pretty sure the Hardy’s aren’t pressurized. What I described happened while in use. Now that it’s shut down the water level is ok. I called Hardy and they provided contact info for a guy locally that hopefully can help sort this out.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

The Hardy is not pressurized.

If you have a leak it sounds as if it is high up on the tank. I say this bc you say it drops as soon as you pour more in. If you do have a leak you should see water pooling in your ash bin under your grates or on the ground outside and around the Hardy. I suspose also you could be leaking inside your house at the heat exchanger etc but that would probably drain your whole tank as this is below the ground level the Hardy sits on.

You didn't specify if your Hardy is up to operating temperature or if it is sitting dormant now. Let me know if you have other details you can add.

 

[Canatct]

It is dormant right now and water level is good. The leak started the last few weeks of heating season.
It’s actually my mothers. She lives alone since my father passed last year. I cut the wood and take care of the Hardy for her. It worked great even with the leak although the weather was mild when it began.
I have the thermostat at 175° and the water temp was spot on when I checked with a thermometer.
I’m leaning toward a crack somewhere along top of water tank in line with low water level in condenser tank. And it’s not leaking now because it’s not at operating temp. The guy with Hardy stated he doesn’t think it is a crack and I really hope he’s right. This thing has been great at keeping my moms house toasty warm while keeping her power bill way down.
Also need to add I didn’t notice any leaks inside or outside when it was still fired.

 

[NSMaple1]

If you want to keep it going as long as possible, ask the guy when he comes about boiler treatment. If he knows his stuff.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

Are you using the domestic hot water loop with this Hardy?

 

[Canatct]

Are you using the domestic hot water loop with this Hardy?

Forgive my ignorance but what is the domestic water loop?
If it’s using the Hardy to heat the house water heater then yes.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

Sorry for the delay.

After thinking about it your Dom water loop is most likely not your problem. Any leaking from there is NOT from your tank. If your Hardy is leaking from your tank it is either leaking onto the ground or into the firebox. Can you see any puddles?

I recommended you remove the skin from your Hardy and look for the leak. By "the skin" I am referring to the stainless shell that covers everything. It is easy to do. Remove your smoke stack and condenser tower... remove the four screws and the between your firebox and ash bin doors, remove the four screws from under the access panel. Unplug the red light. Spread and lift the skin...it should come off by lifting up on it. Now you can see your water tank and the point where it is leaking.

 

[Canatct]

Sorry for the delay.

After thinking about it your Dom water loop is most likely not your problem. Any leaking from there is NOT from your tank. If your Hardy is leaking from your tank it is either leaking onto the ground or into the firebox. Can you see any puddles?

I recommended you remove the skin from your Hardy and look for the leak. By "the skin" I am referring to the stainless shell that covers everything. It is easy to do. Remove your smoke stack and condenser tower... remove the four screws and the between your firebox and ash bin doors, remove the four screws from under the access panel. Unplug the red light. Spread and lift the skin...it should come off by lifting up on it. Now you can see your water tank and the point where it is leaking.

It started the last 2-3 weeks of heating season. I didn’t notice any leaks on the ground or in the ash box. I would pour water in the condenser and run around to see if any water was leaking inside , which I didn’t see.
As for taking off the shell, I didn’t know that’s all there was to it. There aren’t that many screws but quite a few what appears to be rivets.
It’s sitting idle now with a normal water level, but I’ll add some tomorrow and see what happens.
I’ll post up the results this weekend.
I really appreciate your help!

 

[Woodcutteranon]

Don't mess with the rivets, just remove the 5/16" screws, lift and separate.

 

[Scottnc]

So far I have experienced water loss from unintended air entering the firebox three times. May not be related to your problem but checking only take a couple minutes and could be considered part of an annual, preseason check-up. Undetected steam/evaporation was disappearing up the tank vent. I should add it's a good idea to make sure the water temperature gauge is accurate. Mine wasn't, over time it had come to read low, it took awhile before I caught on to the fact that the water was too hot. The temp control worked as designed but it works in parallel to the gauge, there is no connection between the two.

The first go around with lost water was the firebox door seal leaking. Another was the silicone seal on the flapper on the firebox clean-out access (down low, slightly to the left viewed from the back) had deteriorated with the same outcome. And one other time the lift chain on the air inlet flapper for the firebox blower had jumped and snagged holding the flap open slightly.

BTW, 6 to 8 ounces - really? During use that much could evaporate in a day. You can actually see that small an amount account in a level change? I'm thinking the loss of a couple three gallons would be needed to noticeably lower the water level enough to empty the water level switches little splash box.

 

[Canatct]

Ok folks. Fired the H2 15 days ago and it’s working fine. I have the aquastat set at 170°. Heated right up to operating temp and water level hasn’t dropped at all. I have no idea what caused the sudden loss that last couple weeks of season. It’s burning a little more wood than I think is normal but I think replacing the Firefox and ash door seals would help. As for the little flapper door at bottom left on the back, is there supposed to be a seal there?

 

[Scottnc]

[QUOTE="As for the little flapper door at bottom left on the back, is there supposed to be a seal there?[/QUOTE]

Red, high heat silicone. With everything cold and clean coat firebox side with grease (release agent if you will) and the flapper door with the silicone. Gently close the flapper door and let dry. With luck, the silicone dried in a negative impression of the firebox. Wipe off the grease and you're done (actually, you could probably just leave it and not open the flapper door until the next time you need to use it).

 

[Canatct]

Red, high heat silicone. With everything cold and clean coat firebox side with grease (release agent if you will) and the flapper door with the silicone. Gently close the flapper door and let dry. With luck, the silicone dried in a negative impression of the firebox. Wipe off the grease and you're done (actually, you could probably just leave it and not open the flapper door until the next time you need to use it).

Thanks for the reply. I had no idea this was sealed. There’s no sign of any seal there now. I’ll shut it down down during a warm spell and do this.

 

[Canatct]

Reviving this thread. Fired the H2 in October and it ran fine with no water loss until recently when the same issue above resurfaced. Water level dropped to maybe 1/2” or less below float in the condenser tank. When I would add water (just a few oz) it would rapidly drop to that same level. Until Friday... my mother called to tell me there was steam bellowing from the condenser stack. Drove there to find the damper stuck in the open position. I closed it and turned the thermostat up a little. Later on I removed the stack to the water level had dropped to the point the condenser tank was almost empty. Maybe 1/2” of water in the bottom. Filled it up and it drops back to that level in a matter of seconds. Today I removed the hull and filled the tank several times while looking all around the outside and inside Firefox and ash box. I called Hardy to speak with a tech but they’re laid off ( like a lot of us). I didn’t remove the top lid to look inside. At this point I’m at a loss. Any help from you folks would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

Forgive me... I must ask some questions to make sure I am understanding the situation.

1. When you remove the condenser stack from from the top of the Hardy...you look down into the hole... can you see water?
1b. When you believe that your water level has dropped, can you still see water by looking down into the hole?
2. Maybe 1/2” of water in the bottom. Referring to this quote, are you saying that you can see the water level when looking down the hole?

 

[Canatct]

When I remove the condenser stack the water level is now about 1/2” from the bottom, which is in the neighborhood of 1 quart (or more) below where it should be. If I pour in water to bring the level up to the float, within a matter of seconds it drains back down. I’ll take a pic tomorrow that will show you better than my explanation.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

Your Hardy holds approx 100 gallons of water. When you are looking down into the hole and if you can see a stainless steel "floor" that is the top of the firebox. The water tank surrounds the firebox. If you can see water your Hardy still has A LOT of water in it. To avoid damage you should never let the water level drop below the top of the fire box. When you are saying you add 6-8 oz that is a VERY small amount. Your Hardy will lose water thru evaporation weekly. I add about a bucket full of water once a week on average. When you are looking down the hole, if you look towards the back of the hole you should see the float. The float is in a small baffle box but that water is still the true level of the tank. The water level, when full should be about half way up the baffle box. You cannot over-fill your Hardy bc the excess will drain out the over flow hose on the back of the heater.

I am suspecting that maybe you do not have a leak but rather are letting the Hardy water level get too low during the season...which is normal...OR your Hardy is overheating

Feel free to comment...add detail. I'm sure we can figure this out!