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Have you or anyone you know ever seen a ghost or a UFO?

1Alpha1

1Alpha1

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To travel the thousands of millions of kilometers to reach earth an alien space craft would have to travel at the speed of light for several years. 'IF' & this is a BIG 'if' we could travel at light speed it would take several years of accelleration to safely reach that speed (at a G-force our body could handle) and then take several years to decelerate safely to stop. If they (aliens) could do this, they would be coming here for a reason, not to do a quick light show & fork off. They would most likely seek our resources and would not be discrete in showing their intentions. If they can overcome such scientific challenge's and arrive on our earth we would be in a lot of catastrophic trouble. If we study the simple history of colonisation on earth amoung humans, animals and viruses, when someone moves in on another's territory they usually destroy them, not do a light display and vanish. The problem with many who believe in such things is they have not looked at the issue in its entirety and come to the conclusion without much rational thought.

Therein lies the problem. We compare "other possible forms of life" to our standards. Our standards don't mean squat in the big picture.

Also, rational thought has absolutely nothing to do with life on other planets. Who are we to say what life on other planets consist of. Maybe life on other planets is primarily a gas form, and doesn't require oxygen, water, or any comfortable temp. range?

My whole point is, nothing here on earth is relevant to determining life on other planets or in other galaxies. We don't know chit about what lies way off in the far, far distance. We say we do, but as usual, we are only showing what mankind is best known for. It's arrogance.
 
CR888

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I never for a second said the possibility of life outside earth does not exist, with the size of the cosmos and the fact that we have life here suggests under the right conditions its entirely possible. My point was that for sensible reason no alien life has come to earth to visit. As far as life in the form of gas....well that's the sort of stuff folks will come up with to support a fairly baseless, fact less argument. I really wish aliens did visit earth and show us crazy stuff, but the facts and evidence is just not there. If they did somehow get here, I promise you you'd get far more than a light show, we would all be in a lot of trouble.
 
1Alpha1

1Alpha1

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I never for a second said the possibility of life outside earth does not exist, with the size of the cosmos and the fact that we have life here suggests under the right conditions its entirely possible. My point was that for sensible reason no alien life has come to earth to visit. As far as life in the form of gas....well that's the sort of stuff folks will come up with to support a fairly baseless, fact less argument. I really wish aliens did visit earth and show us crazy stuff, but the facts and evidence is just not there. If they did somehow get here, I promise you you'd get far more than a light show, we would all be in a lot of trouble.

There ya go, making promises as to what would happen if "they" visited here. Sensible reasoning has nothing to do with other life forms. Our facts and evidence does not apply. You also mention "right conditions". For who? Them or us? What constitutes right conditions? Again, you are applying our needs and basing the existence of others on that. Maybe a condition that would be totally wrong for us, would be perfect for another?

My entire premise is based on the fact that we don't know anything when it comes to passing judgment on other life forms. Hell, we still continue to discover new forms of life in the deep recesses of our oceans, as well as remote regions of our jungles.

Not a single person on the face of this sorry planet of ours is qualified to say what must be present for life on another planet to exist. If they do attempt to say so, it's entirely speculation and conjecture.
 
unclemoustache

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Not a single person on the face of this sorry planet of ours is qualified to say what must be present for life on another planet to exist. If they do attempt to say so, it's entirely speculation and conjecture.
Not to be rude (for I really like you a lot and think you're a great guy), but it's always the ignorant (and arrogant) people who deem themselves smart enough to know what others do or do not know. You were a cop, not a scientist.
 
1Alpha1

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Not to be rude (for I really like you a lot and think you're a great guy), but it's always the ignorant (and arrogant) people who deem themselves smart enough to know what others do or do not know. You were a cop, not a scientist.

Fair enough.

But, I still stand by what I said. I'm doing my best not to be ignorant or arrogant. I'm well aware of what both mean.

Scientists have been wrong about the dinosaurs. Just last night on the news, it was stated that the T-Rex wasn't nearly as fast as previously thought. When in actuality, they are now saying that all it could do was walk, and not run. According to new "findings", the average person could easily out run it.

If anyone is arrogant, as I've stated many times already, it's the human species. And yes, my view remains the same. I don't think much of it.
 
1Alpha1

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I've never doubted that there are other forms of life out there, unlike our own.

My argument has always been, we don't know a damn thing about it. Not by our standards anyway. Trying to apply our standard to others is just ludicrous.

Only a human could come up with something like that. :rolleyes:
 
jeffc

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Ah yes, the National Review. Opinion news for the dozen or so remaining neoconservatives too intellectually proud to read Breitbart's dumbed down alternative facts.

Having read this article in the past, I can vividly recall the takeaway; that it would have made more sense had it been penned by Dennis Miller. Charles Cooke tried in vain to identify Neil deGrasse Tyson as the evil champion of a mysterious and dangerous progressive movement destined to destroy liberty. By haphazardly fusing his likeness with objectionable figures like Obama, rappers and movie stars in elaborate dresses, Cooke paints a disparate abstract with absolutely no basis in reality. The best possible description for this tripe would be fake op-ed, which seemed like an impossible oxymoron prior to reading it.

Tyson has simply followed the likes of Carl Sagan, picking up the mantle for the newer generations to follow. He has stated that science can bring far more value to our economy than war, and energetically advocates for science education. The way Mr. Cooke chose to highlight his contributions, you'd think Dr. Tyson was the anti-Christ hinged on defiling the world. Politics and religion fear science for the very fact that science can exist, even flourish, without either of the them.
 
chuckwood

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Ok, I'll bite. Many years ago I used to know a building contractor who was *not* a new agey type person in any way. I'd always known him as a no-nonsense level headed guy that was pretty much focused on business and building and nothing else. After he had retired, I visited him once and he confided something personal to me that left me rather shocked. His daughter had been murdered, and he had been very upset about it for many months. Then one evening he heard a knock at his door. When he went to answer it, his daughter was standing there on his front porch. She told him that she was ok, for him not to worry about her, and that she loved him very much. And then she vanished into thin air right in front of him. I had no reason to doubt his story, it's just that it was outside my general frame of reference at the time. Then some years later, I was listening to one of Art Bell's radio shows and this very topic was being discussed, with people calling in and telling many stories of similar experiences.

I had something a bit similar happen, only it wasn't so paranormal. I never had a very good relationship with my dad while he was alive, I was a rebellious black sheep type and it was only after he passed away that I began to appreciate and understand him a lot better. When he was terminally ill we never really had a good, heart to heart talk. But one night he appeared in a very vivid, almost lucid dream. He was there as a young man, grinning from ear to ear, but saying nothing. I told him "I love you dad" - he smiled back and then slowly vanished in my dream. I felt changed and at ease after I woke up.

My mom had a vivid dream the night her dad passed away. She had dreamed that he was in a train at a station, and she was standing on a platform, waving at him as the train pulled out. The very next day she received news that he had passed.

These things happen, and they defy explanations.
 
unclemoustache

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Don’t Believe in God? Maybe You’ll Try U.F.O.s

Interesting article here: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


But don't bother clicking the link - full text here.


Are Americans becoming less religious? It depends on what you mean by “religious.”

Polls certainly indicate a decline in religious affiliation, practice and belief. Just a couple of decades ago, about 95 percent of Americans reported belonging to a religious group. This number is now around 75 percent. And far fewer are actively religious: The percentage of regular churchgoers may be as low as 15 to 20 percent. As for religious belief, the Pew Research Center found that from 2007 to 2014 the percentage of Americans who reported being absolutely confident God exists dropped from 71 percent to 63 percent.

Nonetheless, there is reason to doubt the death of religion, or at least the death of what you might call the “religious mind” — our concern with existential questions and our search for meaning. A growing body of research suggests that the evidence for a decline in traditional religious belief, identity and practice does not reflect a decline in this underlying spiritual inclination.

Ask yourself: Why are people religious to begin with? One view is that religion is an ancient way of understanding and organizing the world that persists largely because societies pass it down from generation to generation. This view is related to the idea that the rise of science entails the fall of religion. It also assumes that the strength of religion is best measured by how much doctrine people accept and how observant they are.

This view, however, does not capture the fundamental nature of the religious mind — our awareness of, and need to reckon with, the transience and fragility of our existence, and how small and unimportant we seem to be in the grand scheme of things. In short: our quest for significance.

Dozens of studies show a strong link between religiosity and existential concerns about death and meaning. For example, when research participants are presented with stimuli that bring death to mind or challenge a sense of meaning in life, they exhibit increased religiosity and interest in religious or spiritual ideas. Another body of research shows that religious beliefs provide and protect meaning.

Furthermore, evidence suggests that the religious mind persists even when we lose faith in traditional religious beliefs and institutions. Consider that roughly 30 percent of Americans report they have felt in contact with someone who has died. Nearly 20 percent believe they have been in the presence of a ghost. About one-third of Americans believe that ghosts exist and can interact with and harm humans; around two-thirds hold supernatural or paranormal beliefs of some kind, including beliefs in reincarnation, spiritual energy and psychic powers.

These numbers are much higher than they were in previous decades, when more people reported being highly religious. People who do not frequently attend church are twice as likely to believe in ghosts as those who are regular churchgoers. The less religious people are, the more likely they are to endorse empirically unsupported ideas about U.F.O.s, intelligent aliens monitoring the lives of humans and related conspiracies about a government cover-up of these phenomena.

An emerging body of research supports the thesis that these interests in nontraditional supernatural and paranormal phenomena are driven by the same cognitive processes and motives that inspire religion. For instance, my colleagues and I recently published a series of studies in the journal Motivation and Emotion demonstrating that the link between low religiosity and belief in advanced alien visitors is at least partly explained by the pursuit of meaning. The less religious participants were, we found, the less they perceived their lives as meaningful. This lack of meaning was associated with a desire to find meaning, which in turn was associated with belief in U.F.O.s and alien visitors.

When people are searching for meaning, their minds seem to gravitate toward thoughts of things like aliens that do not fall within our current scientific inventory of the world. Why? I suspect part of the answer is that such ideas imply that humans are not alone in the universe, that we might be part of a larger cosmic drama. As with traditional religious beliefs, many of these paranormal beliefs involve powerful beings watching over humans and the hope that they will rescue us from death and extinction.

A great many atheists and agnostics, of course, do not think U.F.O.s exist. I’m not suggesting that if you reject traditional religious belief, you will necessarily find yourself believing in alien visitors. But because beliefs about U.F.O.s and aliens do not explicitly invoke the supernatural and are couched in scientific and technological jargon, they may be more palatable to those who reject the metaphysics of more traditional religious systems.

It is important to note that thus far, research indicates only that the need for meaning inspires these types of paranormal beliefs, not that such beliefs actually do a good job of providing meaning. There are reasons to suspect they are poor substitutes for religion: They are not part of a well-established social and institutional support system and they lack a deeper and historically rich philosophy of meaning. Seeking meaning does not always equal finding meaning.

The Western world is, in theory, becoming increasingly secular — but the religious mind remains active. The question now is, how can society satisfactorily meet people’s religious and spiritual needs?
 
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