Hello,

[Tree Frog]

Sorry I may not have been clear about the right questions.

Example:

I want to take down a tree. Can I have some advice?

I have a tree that is ___ feet away from a two story house.

The tree is a _______ (species).

The tree is ________ inches DBH.

The tree has a void that appears to be ______inches wide internally.

Using the stick trick method, the tree is aprox ______ feet high.


Blah Blah Blah

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Aarcuda-

Personally I don't want to help you. It's not because I'm hateful, greedy or even a bit miffed at some of your comments. It's because I don't know your level of comprehension on the matter and your total lack of experience. Pair that with a tree that presents some challenges and you've got a recipe for "You've Got To See This!"

I help people all the time. I've done jobs for free because it needed done and the funds just weren't there. I've gave impromptu lessons for DIY'ers. But these were DIY'ers with DIY worthy jobs that had some grasp of what I was telling them, I'm not challenging your abilities so don't get upset there. I'm sure you're very handy. But I could look at them and see the wheels turning. I know they are capable of the task at hand.

I'm sorry sir, I'm not prejudiced against you, but i can not help you. I don't want the weight of your mistake on my shoulders should something unexpected arise. I'm not going to sit here saying "Oh...why didn't I tell him about that or how to counter it" when the tree is on your house. ...should it happen.

Again I say good luck and my sincere best wishes. But as a last warning....we're all pro's. And we have no gain by telling you to hire someone.

 

[Urban Forester]

1) You're willing to risk paying out $1,000 dollar deductible or your life via permant injury or death and your not willing to part with $500 to avoid the previous...
2) When giving adivice it most often does NOT involve the potential for death, if it did I would'nt give it. If a person asked you how to detonate C4 and you knew they did'nt know exactly how to do it safely, would you KNOWINGLY place that person in harms way? This industry DOES involve things that can cause significant injury or death. It's not about money it's about having to live with the fact that our advice crippled or killed someone, regardless if that person was willing to try.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

One of the things that can go wrong is if you decide to take the tree down whole, as you are making the cut, the tree can implode on itself from it's own weight. Remember how the towers fell on 9/11, well it would start off kind of like that, but from the bottom up. The failure could continue for several feet until the end of the hollow, at which point anything could happen.
You see, even if you have a rope secured away from the house, the tree dropping straight downward would immediately slacken the rope, and now the tree can fall whatever direction it happens to be leaning.
If it should fall towards the house, at some point the rope will tighten up and steer the falling tree left or right of that, if the rope dosen't snap, and the tree will take a fast sweeping fall. Imagine a huge 10,000 pound windshield wiper, moving at 50 mph. That's what you'd be looking at coming at you, with no time to react.
Of course this assumes that you weren't crushed to death by the initial implosion.
Another common occurrence with hollow trees, is barber-chairing. This is where the trunk splits and sends part of the trunk shooting straight back. Imagine you flicking a fly off a surface as hard as you can, only you're the fly and the tree trunk is a set of giant fingers.
One way to avoid the forces described, is to remove the limbs and take chunks off from the top down. But if you think the tree could fall on your house, what makes you think it can't fall while your up in it creating huge shock loads from cutting limbs?
A qualified arborist would most likely bring in a bucket truck and have this thing on the ground in under an hour. If you did the clean up, I'm sure you could find somebody to do it for less than $500.
Our bucket truck rates are about $200/hr, and we're in a pricey area of the US, not like NY or Chicago, but I'm sure more than you out there in the Boonies.

 

[aarcuda]

Now, I have no doubt you can do this yourself but do you already have the tools you need to get it done safely? Let's start with the saw, what do you have? Bullrope what do you got and how long is it? Do you have a 40' ladder or are you going to throw a rope up the trees? Do you have a truck or tree to tie your rope to when you use the come-a-long? You have more than one rope right? One for the come-a-long and one for the tree? You have a clevis or two? Some wedges? A sledge hammer? Extra chain for your saw? PPE or are you going to wing it? I'd like to help you but when I put BOONIES into mapquest search, I get no driving directions. Do you have/need the local permits to remove these trees?
When you say $500 is over the top pricewise, do you have any idea what it costs to buy what you need to do this? Maybe you have what you need already but most homeowners don't have ropes long enough. Saws big enough to stay out of trouble. Chains sharp enough to cut through a tree without needing sharpening. OR buddies who can wait till the tree is down to crack open a beer. Beer and rope work don't mix! Then the problem of what saw cuts to make pops up.
Let me know if you have the tools before you ask me for advice on how to beat the guy out of a reasonable price for putting a couple of hazardous trees on the ground. So what have you got for tools?

Well my saw is not that great. I am planning on buying a new stihl on the 25th (a salemans is coming to the local small engine dealer with some discounts). which would be a good model? right now I have a crappy poulan 2550 (go ahead and laugh now) that I use to chop firewood. I was prepared to get a new saw for this and I'd rather spend the money on a new chain saw and do it myself rather than pay some guy 5 bills to do it once.

the tree is about 25 feet tall and I have an extension ladder that can get to the top.

truck is a 79 ramcharger. I can get some come alongs (someone PM's me that I should use 2 at different angles to make it fall where i want it too).

wedges are easy to make. sledghammer, yes. ropes, will get- easy to find.

I'm in Arkansas and have friend with chainsaws, comealongs, chains, backhoes and loits of everything. no permits required where Im at.

I can get you the dimensions of the tree, the cavity etc tonight.

thanks.

 

[aarcuda]

1) You're willing to risk paying out $1,000 dollar deductible or your life via permant injury or death and your not willing to part with $500 to avoid the previous...
2) When giving adivice it most often does NOT involve the potential for death, if it did I would'nt give it. If a person asked you how to detonate C4 and you knew they did'nt know exactly how to do it safely, would you KNOWINGLY place that person in harms way? This industry DOES involve things that can cause significant injury or death. It's not about money it's about having to live with the fact that our advice crippled or killed someone, regardless if that person was willing to try.

yes. I learned to rebuild engines by learning. spent my money on tools rather than mechanics.

I learned construction this way too. once again, bought my tools with the money I saved hiring a carpenter.

I understand you guys dont want me to get hurt. the hurt is more likely to occur without the proper instruction though.

I looked at the tree again last night. I'm not really sure it needs to come down. but 1 big branch heading towards the house probably does. if its gone, the tree will have most od its weight away from the house. I just dont know if taking the branch down will kill it or not. as I said, the top of the tree is missing right above this branch.

 

[appalachianarbo]

Can you post a pic of the entire tree (top included)? Like I said before, even though it's hollow, it doesn't look from the pictures like it is very hazardous (of course, I'm just going by your pictures). A pic of the top would also allow us to see how much of the crown area the big limb toward the house represents, and what effect it woul have on the tree health if you took it off.

 

[Pilsnaman]

If you want to learn how to remove a limb properly so you don't kill the tree check out The Tree Climber's Companion book. It is easy to find on the internet and full of great info. Be really careful and good luck, I was only in the business for a year but that was long enough to know that this stuff is dangerous, unpredictable, and can hurt.

 

[aarcuda]

here are some more pictures. i'll get some measurements in a sec.

 

[aarcuda]

well, i dont want to cut them if I dont have top. I love trees. Ive always thought of trees as an asset.

If I dont have to cut it, trust me, i want to keep it. its a cool looking tree, isnt it? Im going to get those measurements now.

 

[jmack]

help

I dont know and thats why Im asking. but I'm rellay not getting much help other than people telling me to either forget it OR film it so they can see how I messed it up



actually, a lot of the replies have been that I should not do it and that I should pay the guy $500 to do it for me.


Sorry if I seemed out of line here but this is a Homeowners Helper Forum. I'm just looking for help and some of the guys here arent helping but hindering buy making those comments and not providing meaningful replies that are directed towrds actually cutting this tree down.

your are getting help but its not what you want to hear, you got good prices get two more . leave this to the pros, the bid is cheap enough btw there is plenty of work for every body, save on your next oilchange. we take trees down near houses we still get a rush and thats with thousands of dollars worth of equipment! where are you in the boonies?

 

[aarcuda]

Sorry I may not have been clear about the right questions.

Example:

I want to take down a tree. Can I have some advice?

I have a tree that is _27_ feet away from a two story house.

The tree is a __oak_____ (species).

The tree is _27"_ inches Diameter.

The tree has a void that appears to be ___17___inches wide internally.

Using the tape measure method, the tree is exactly 17' feet highto the top of the trunk. 34' to the top of the branch near the house..


Blah Blah Blah

I filled in the blanks. the tree is 17' tall to wgere the trunk ends. then theres another 17' of branch to the house.

Ive got accurate measurements of the diameter (27" at the base just below the hole in the side) and the gutted inside is about 17-20"

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The tree has had it's top broken off many years ago. One can see, in the attached picture, that after the top broke off, the next limb took off and tried to become the new top.
My guess is there is a hollow the extends from where I drew the red circle, down to the hole at the base of the tree. The big branch is pulling off to one side, and against a hollow trunk.
If you were my customer, and you really wanted to try to save the tree, I'd do a limb reduction on that big limb to reduce the loads on the trunk.
Keep in mind, this advice is just drawn on what I can see in the pictures.
Another thing to keep in mind is trees are not just mechanical structures. Removing branches reduces the tree's ability to recover from the injury it sustained all those years ago.
In other words, it's loosing ground now, with all those leaves making food. Once you remove a major limb, it will very likely loose ground much faster.
The limb reduction will just be the first step in a total removal, although it may give you years of enjoying the tree.

 

[Ax-man]

Aarcuda

That Oak don't look that bad to me from the pics, the big limb is questionable, from the pics , even it was to fail it looks like only the tips would brush the house. Before you go whacking the tree or the limb totally off, check out the limb at A & B from the picture I swiped, I guess your going to have use your own judgement on this one , if you have a pair of binoculars, please use the binoculars instead of a ladder. If that limb were going to fail, if at all, B is where it will break JMO.

Why I had the pic in paint, I did some playing around, the red marks are where I would prune the limb back. the blue ones are maybe, maybe not type cuts depending on what the situation called for if I was able to be on site. If you decide to keep the tree and the limb, I am not suggesting you get up on your ladder and climb this tree, find somene to help you with it, that knows what they are doing.

Larry

 

[Ax-man]

Forgot the pic

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Haha! Great minds think alike.

That said, I have a second more important concern with this tree.
Look at the red circle in the attached photo. Holy crap, this tree is much worse than the given measurements imply.
See the swelling? It indicates massive decay, and at the base of the tree, where all the leverage of the tree is applied.

 

[Ax-man]

i didn't really pay that much attention the first time I looked at that particular pic, I was just looking at the hole in the stem. Your right Mike, that is definately a case for a through examination with a trowel , probe or a sounding see what is going on around the edge of that flare. Think our homeowner friend can handle this on his own???

Judging from the pics, the house was built on an existing wood lot, he has some nice young trees on the lot, the trees in question are the senior citizens of the group.

Larry

 

[reachtreeservi]

More cut,Less talk

Originally Posted by aarcuda
I am a very handy person. ....
I'm going to do this. it will either work or it will be a life lesson. I hope it works. can anyone help out now?

You come on the forum and ask for advice , Obviously , the majority of the advice you have received says the cheapest and only safe option for you is to pay the $500 and call it a day. Just because you feel handy , doesn't't mean you won't be injured. All the other homeowners that got injured this and every year thought they were handy too. My grandfather used to say " You are unique , just like everyone else." The point is , you are not unique.
You are just like everyone else. Grandpa also used to say " the definition of a fool is someone who keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results. It's not a "life lesson" but reality that if you insist on doing something that requires thousands of dollars of special equipment and a very long learning curve and you don't have the equipment and you get one step ahead of the curve that Mr. Murphy will strike.

What's next? Do it yourself eye surgery?. Just because the Doctor quoted you 5000 Dollars and you did't have .After all, You've seen it on TV .

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.But the principle and the chance of almost certain injury are about the same.

Yes, this is a homeowner advice forum.
And the only sane advice is let a pro do it !

But, by your own admission, You are going to do it anyway. So........

More cut and less talk! Oh yeah, Don't forget the videos!

 

[treeseer]

27" x .15 = 4.05" minimum shell thickness. Sounds like your tree's right on the edge of high risk. You have the option of pruning it to lessen risk; depends on aggravating factors like cracks, conks, lean, vitality etc.

If it's in low vitality yes I'd have it cut. If in otherwise good condition, prune, build soil and monitor.

It's too big and too close to do it yourself. If you're tight on cash, look for ways to barter with the tree guy, make payments, whatever it takes.

 

[Tree Wizard]

The 27" diameter is outside the bark. The tree looks like it might be a Post Oak so I would suspect there is at least 1.5" of bark in that diameter, maybe more - now you are down to 25.5" diameter so the cavity diameter ratio is higher.

The elephant's foot base is also scary, scary, scary. Need to drill test or Resistograph or similar if you're going to keep it.