help, woodburner is very hungry

[phlynott]

Hello, I've got an older wood stove that I use to heat the house. I noticed that I'm going through a lot of wood, and can't keep a fire for more than 3 hours. after that I have to completely start a new fire, not even enough coals to ignite. The unit is approx 20 yrs old, and I discovered there is no gasket or provision for a gasket on the door to the fire box. Any suggestions are welcomed, thanks



Joe

 

[Crofter]

The older stoves often were not very efficient. They would burn green wood though. Because of excess air intake and no firebrick temperatures over the wood often too low to burn the volatiles of the wood where a good part of the heat is. A new stove may be the answer.

 

[computeruser]

I think that the short answer is that a new, modern stove will better meet your needs for long-duration, efficient fires. You might wish to check out woodheat.org and the woodheat yahoo.com group (groups.yahoo.com/group/woodheat).

 

[stihlatit]

You will get more efficient burns out of an epa stove but getting long burns is still a challenge. I believe the longest burn I've heard of is around 10 hours.

The new stoves also like dryer wood.

Are you burning hard or softwood. Hard will burn longer. I am attaching a url that may interest you in this regard. It gives values of heat from the whole spectrum of wood.

http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/live/g1554/build/g1554.pdf

 

[hautions11]

Burn duration

I heat with an actual wood furnace that is old, but still pretty efficient. It has provisions to blow air directly in to the firebox when the thermostat calls for heat. It has been verly mild this winter in Indiana, but the last few weeks have been quite cold. I typically get 6-8 hour burn times as the furnace holds a lot of wood. Below 10 degrees F I have to get up half way through the night and throww wood on because the furnace is working so hard. As my furnace is easily 20 yrs old, but fairly air tight, it would not get a lot better with a replacement. I agree with everyone elses comment that the new stove designs are more efficient but certainly less forgiving in the fuel choices. If any air leaks in the stove do not exceed the total amont of air required for combustion, there is not a huge advantage to a more air tight system. Making up numbers, if the stove at the heat level you want needs a pound of air an hour and your stove leaks, half a pound per hour, closing the air inlet down to half a pound per hour nets the same result. Now that's about the most confusing sentence I've written in a while, but I think it illustrates my point. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

L

 

[Crofter]

Hautions11; I would only quibble a bit about whether the air is directed where needed, and whether it is heated adequately to burn the volatiles, or simply dilutes them and takes them up the chimney. A problem with a lot of older designs is not enougn heat is reflected into the fuel and the air supply is not hot enough and close enough to the top of the wood to burn 100% of the volatiles. In some species that is where most of the heat is. There certainly were some good efficient wood burners around years ago, but not many.

 

[hautions11]

Efficiency

That is a good point about the direction of the air that is inputed. I forget that my firebox blower inputs directly in to the lower part of the burn zone. Air up the chimney does you no good.

Larry

 

[Crofter]

That is a good point about the direction of the air that is inputed. I forget that my firebox blower inputs directly in to the lower part of the burn zone. Air up the chimney does you no good.

Larry

The new EPA heater I have does an excellent job on the volatiles but it will accumulate coals that has no air directed on. I have to rake and turn them to burn. Now mind you that is only when I have been firing very hard for 20 or so hours. I am planning to put an additional draft in down at the coals level. It takes some getting used to compared to some of the old box stoves I have had but it sure does burn clean as to soot build up or visible smoke.

 

[Patrick62]

Would have helped to know what kind of stove it is.

I am using one that is atleast that old. I know of two others that are maybe older. Schrader, I think they are. and they don't have a gasket either.

It depends on how much heat I need, but turned down it is a fairly long burn. One of the necessary items is a damper. This is used to control the draft. If it is windy I have had to close the damper all the way and it still draws like crazy. On calm days I can open it up most of the way. Someone explained to me that the heat is "sucked" right up the stack in spite of the air intake being closed down. Didn't make sense to me, but I stuck one on anyway. Ya know something?? it worked! For whatever reason.... Oh, open the damper before you yank open the door

Other than that, the NEW stuff is more efficient. Sheez, just feed the beast!!!
I met a fella last year that was cutting to feed a boiler. He said he burned something around 30 cords a year in the thing. So in perspective you probably are not that bad off.

-Pat

 

[Crofter]

Dan I hadn't thought of that route. The secondary intakes are fixed ( 2, 2 1/2 square holes in the bottom rear of the stove that feed the SS tubes up in the top. If I closed them at that stage it would increase the air directed over the glass and down to the coals. That will be an easy try, thanks.

 

[logbutcher]

Hungry Stove Repair

OK Joe, here goes.
Too much air, no burn control. Older stoves did that.
So:
1. Measure ALL the air intakes--doors, plates, top, bottom, outlet to pipe.
2. Get a tub of furnace cement to fill the gaps between plates that are too small/narrow for gaskets. Fingers are best for this :censored:
3. Measure the spaces when closed of the loading and/or ash doors. Buy the smallest gasket "rope" that will fit the openings when closed.
4. Grind/sand, scrape the contacts areas.
5. Using gasket cement on one of the surfaces to glue the gasket...shut the opening so it'll dry. Give it a day.
Rebuilding cast iron stoves is messy using furnace cement and the black gasket cement. Use plastic procto gloves disposable.
Tip: Use a drop light at night inside the stove to find the air spaces to fill with furnace cement or gaskets.
Last solution: buy a used EPA approved stove. Cat or non-cat. A good one works well, saves you wood, burns clean. Stay away from "Vermont Castings" brand. They are not what they once were when really made in Vermont, poor QC, expensive parts, no service.
Go for it.
PS You should be cutting NEXT winter's wood now

 

[Bearded1duh]

Pack that crack!

Yeah, I think Logbutcher got it right.
Any leaky system cannot even approach efficiency let along be fine tuned or regulated. Leaking gaskets in a carburetor are not a whole lot different, performance-wise, than a leaky woodstove. Pack that crack!

Pack up that old gobbler for the balance of the season and keep your eyes peeled for an upgrade before next fall.

So, Treebutcher ? when you say "QUANDO OMNI FLUNKUS MORITATI"
are you saying, when all fails. . . die? My latin isn't too good.

Try this one Quicquid plantatur solo, solo credit.


(Whatever is affixed to the soil belongs to the soil) And this maxim of law is the basis for the trespass that occurs if you were to attempt to reposess a tree which you had planted for a customer who failed to pay you.
1Duh

 

[logbutcher]

Latin Sayings

So, Treebutcher ? when you say "QUANDO OMNI FLUNKUS MORITATI"
are you saying, when all fails. . . die? My latin isn't too good.
Try this one Quicquid plantatur solo, solo credit.


OK, so here it is: "When all Else Fails, Play Dead". Similar to Ranger motto: "Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way." NOT Iacocca !
And you said: :spam: ???
And I was starting to feel sorry for the "hungry woodburner"
Log butcher

 

[musher]

OK, so here it is: "When all Else Fails, Play Dead".

Like a possum (or, an opossum if you must). It's the motto of the Possum Lodge/Red Green Show.

 

[phlynott]

Thanks for all the suggestions. So far I have ground the door flange and it seals better now. Next I'll try the gasket trick. I really need to do the light test, but I keep the furnace fired all the time, have to wait for warmer weather. Now that the woodburner is heating better I have to work on the ducting.



Joe

 

[KarlP]

Last solution: buy a used EPA approved stove. Cat or non-cat. A good one works well, saves you wood, burns clean. Stay away from "Vermont Castings" brand. They are not what they once were when really made in Vermont, poor QC, expensive parts, no service.

YMMV. I've got a 2004 VC Madison that has already more than paid for itself in natural gas savings. The only issues I had were a gasket that came unglued after the first few firings and a removable ceramic insert on the handle that cracked just after the "accessory" warranty was up. A 3" line of gasket cement and a $12 handle in two years of burning doesn't seem too bad to me.

 

[phlynott]

Appetite is less

Through a little experimentation, I have discovered that there is not enough firebrick lining in my stove. Much of it has been broken out and is missing. Any suggestions on how to re-line the furnace?? Also, the bricks at the back of the firebox really take a beating from logs hitting them when loading the firebox. I was thinking of installing some sort of cast iron "retaining grate" to help hold the bricks in place when they begin to crack...Just lookin for suggestions



thanks,

Joe

 

[Crofter]

You might see if there are any stove repair businesses in your area. Masonry supply places will also stock standard fire brick. Castable refractory material (like prebagged concrete mix but fireproof) should be available to fill odd shapes and curves. Firebrick can be cut to shape with tile saw.

 

[Big Woody]

Tractor Supply also sells the firebrick if you have one nearby.