How the hell did I kill another Stihl?

[user 122190]

I’ve seen saws with burned down bottom ends from running 50:1.

There’s Merit.

I personally run @ 36:1 Red Armor.

If that works for you, then GREAT!!!! Most ALL of the rest of the chainsaw buying/using world takes their advise from the engineers that build and test Stihl, Husqvarna, et.al. I guess it is now you and me that know better, and let all of them find out what you alone have discovered and now shared with me. :wink:

 

[huskihl]

If that works for you, then GREAT!!!! Most ALL of the rest of the chainsaw buying/using world takes their advise from the engineers that build and test Stihl, Husqvarna, et.al. I guess it is now you and me that know better, and let all of them find out what you alone have discovered and now shared with me. :wink:

We’re not making it up. Honest Injun

2017 saw run on 50:1. The cylinders are always fine. The bearings are what need more oil

 

[1hander]

wow that makes a person think..probly the reason mine have never burned down is cuz i just do not use them as hard or often as a professional would..and also cuz i just dont lean em out too much at all cuz i just dont need the extra rpm..everyone kinda has their own reasons for running what they because of past experiences, i can respect that.

 

[stilh036prohog]

Honest Injun u say.

 

[stilh036prohog]

That's bad gas and a crankcase full of water

 

[drf255]

30 minutes! So I made the right choice on a pro saw

Ever pull the jug on a 261?

Some of the older saws can be pulled in 10 minutes, but not a 261. The intake boot is attached by 3 screws that can only be accessed by pulling the jug off. So that requires the entire intake tract to be removed (which requires the starter cover to be pulled) before you can pull the jug off. And there is the top AV spring and the muffler to be pulled as well.

Take a lot of pics along the way, you’ll wanna reference them.

 

[Derrick Sawyer]

I’ve seen saws with burned down bottom ends from running 50:1.

There’s Merit.

I personally run @ 36:1 Red Armor.

Why?

Because I’ve seen the insides after saws ran hard using each ratio & that settles it for me.


Agree a good mix is key, I run 40:1 no problems, my dealer also recommends Echo Red Armour, they suspect it may have some amount of Seafoam or similar in it, which helps keep things clean. IF you havent used Seafoam, its often used to decarbonize car intakes systems and i also fixed a slipping transmission with it, good stuff!

 

[Skunkdynamite]

Ever pull the jug on a 261?

Some of the older saws can be pulled in 10 minutes, but not a 261. The intake boot is attached by 3 screws that can only be accessed by pulling the jug off. So that requires the entire intake tract to be removed (which requires the starter cover to be pulled) before you can pull the jug off. And there is the top AV spring and the muffler to be pulled as well.

Take a lot of pics along the way, you’ll wanna reference them.

I started looking at it last night, I see what you mean about the disassembly sequence... Still looks like 1/10 the work of pulling apart a 290. I'm getting off cheap for this one... And getting a little bit of education too.
My wife sees it as a loss, I'm still way ahead of burning oil... About 200 a year for firewood and a few hiccups with the equipment is about the cost of heating my house for a month.

 

[Okie]

We’re not making it up. Honest Injun

2017 saw run on 50:1. The cylinders are always fine. The bearings are what need more oil


View attachment 799869

Those type bearings in your picture (that some Stihl chainsaws use that are OEM) that use the plastic separators (to hold the bearing spaced) will break up. I replace those type bearings with the type that use the steel bearing separators.
Sometimes you can hear the bearing noise or if you feel rough spots when cranking the saw over slow is a hint that the plastic separators are in pieces and causing the individual bearings to slide instead of roll.

I do not know what models of Stihls saws that use the plastic type bearings, but if you see such when working on a saw, especially your saw, replace them with the steel type separator bearings.

 

[Okie]

Wow Okie! That is pretty thorough! Good to know! I have to commit to the vac/pressure testing first. I have a standard Vacuum pump, but I have to get something together for pressure. I need to do some searching on this topic, it's pretty clear that if I invest the time in testing that I'll save time and money. Which is why I am working on my equipment to begin with... I've been getting workable results tuning everything by ear for years, but like I mentioned I'm definitely wet behind the ears with 2 strokes... I'm not a fast learner either

Since you work on your own equipment and auto's also you might re-search a Mityvac Vacuum/Pressure tester. I think most now days are the 8000 series. I have a 4000 series mityvac (old model) vac/pressure and I'm constantly using it too bleed brakes, check vacuum hoses and controls on auto's and checking chainsaws.
Re-search the metal type that is re-buildable with a kit, but with little TLC you will never need the $20 kit.
I use a Briggs red fuel filter in the Vac line on mine when doing vac tests because if a little piece of trash is sucked into the pump it will cause a little rubber valve to leak. (not hold a vacuum) If you see this happen with za re-buildable type mityvac don't panic, just take it apart and use a q tip and gently clean under the rubber check valve's lips. Some mityvac's are not serviceable and these are usually the sealed cheaper molded plastic type.

Some guys use a blood pressure type bulb, a gauge and a output check valve in the hose to pump about 3-5 lbs pressure into a chainsaw crankcase. You will find that a leak is easier to locate using pressure instead of vacuum but test using both and while rotating the crank shaft.

 

[user 122190]

Those type bearings in your picture (that some Stihl chainsaws use that are OEM) that use the plastic separators (to hold the bearing spaced) will break up. I replace those type bearings with the type that use the steel bearing separators.
Sometimes you can hear the bearing noise or if you feel rough spots when cranking the saw over slow is a hint that the plastic separators are in pieces and causing the individual bearings to slide instead of roll.

I do not know what models of Stihls saws that use the plastic type bearings, but if you see such when working on a saw, especially your saw, replace them with the steel type separator bearings.

It would seem that those that run really really rich oil to gas ratios don't have a problem with those plastic race/bearing separators. Come spring time, I am going all in on the oil. I will start with 1:1, just to get the saws comfortable with the oil saturation, and slowly, like after a tank, go straight oil. Phook Gas!!!

 

[Okie]

[QUOTE="MontanaResident, post: 7199930, member: 122190"]It would seem that those that run really really rich oil to gas ratios don't have a problem with those plastic race/bearing separators. Come spring time, I am going all in on the oil. I will start with 1:1, just to get the saws comfortable with the oil saturation, and slowly, like after a tank, go straight oil. Phook Gas!!! [/QUOTE]

It's not a lack of oil for the PLASTIC bearing separators. It's a cheap wimpy China plastic that becomes very brittle and when one little piece flakes off it then destroys (breaks up) all the plastic.

The Stihl engineer that decided to save a nickle on this plastic bearing mod into a really good costly saw needs a swift hard kick to the anus area with a steel toed spiked boot as a wake up call.

 

[user 122190]

I know.

 

[dynodave]

It's a cheap wimpy China plastic that becomes very brittle and when one little piece flakes off it then destroys (breaks up) all the plastic.

Is E-10 mix possibly a contributing factor? Or am I avoiding E-10 for no reason? Since I joined AS in 2012 when I had 1 saw, I have been given the better part of 64 saws more than a dozen weed wacker and 10+ blowers that I have repaired most of them. Good education about rubber and plastic E-10 damage in O-P-E but seems MR has a low opinion of what I've learned. Oil only problem?

 

[TBS]

 

[hseII]

If that works for you, then GREAT!!!! Most ALL of the rest of the chainsaw buying/using world takes their advise from the engineers that build and test Stihl, Husqvarna, et.al. I guess it is now you and me that know better, and let all of them find out what you alone have discovered and now shared with me. :wink:

Considering some of the manufacturers were recommending much more than 50:1 into the latter part of the 20th century & until the EPA got involved & started dictating the exhaust of 2 stokes, I wouldn’t say it’s me & you but rather folks that use their saws for a living & folks that work on saws for a living.

If you will notice all the builders on here, (that see 100s of saws a year), mandate their customers run more than 50:1: it’s because they’ve seen many failures with less oil.

As Kevin has already told you, it’s not the top end but the Bottom end that needs more oil.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[user 122190]

Considering some of the manufacturers were recommending much more than 50:1 into the latter part of the 20th century & until the EPA got involved & started dictating the exhaust of 2 stokes, I wouldn’t say it’s me & you but rather folks that use their saws for a living & folks that work on saws for a living.

If you will notice all the builders on here, (that see 100s of saws a year), mandate their customers run more than 50:1: it’s because they’ve seen many failures with less oil.

As Kevin has already told you, it’s not the top end but the Bottom end that needs more oil.

Is Kevin also known as huskihl. I read his post. Then he posted a picture and blew his argument. Mechanical things fail, for a variety of reasons, oil can be one of them, and so could plenty of other reasons. If you think the problem is oil, it is oil. No need to investigate further, stop looking at the damage, it is the oil, damnit!!! Just believe me!!!!

Here's another failure caused by oil. Now in this case it wasn't just the oil mix/weight, but the brand of oil. And low tire pressure, and a dirty passenger side mirror, and a violation of the speed limit, and texting while driving, but the OIL was a factor. I know because I have seen a thing or two.

 

[rupedoggy]

I used to have a lot of respect for MontanaResident but now his sarcasm has turned me into Darth Vader. The engineers and Stihl workers built the saws to last on 50:1 because it was mandated by EPA. Husky changed the cranks and other things on the 372 because so many were blowing (not the ones on 32:1). Who knows how many other saws got redone so they would stand up. As long as the saws make the warranty period (and a lot don't), The manufacturers are happy.

 

[grizz55chev]

I used to have a lot of respect for MontanaResident but now his sarcasm has turned me into Darth Vader. The engineers and Stihl workers built the saws to last on 50:1 because it was mandated by EPA. Husky changed the cranks and other things on the 372 because so many were blowing (not the ones on 32:1). Who knows how many other saws got redone so they would stand up. As long as the saws make the warranty period (and a lot don't), The manufacturers are happy.

 

[user 122190]

There is a general mindset here about oil.

I am reminded of the famous reply from J. Paul Getty Sr to his then young son, who asked the question, "Why is our oil better then others?". No doubt the young boy was seeing a lot of advertisements, in papers, on bill boards, radio, etc. Getty Sr, said "Oil is oil, it all comes from the ground."