How to keep steel temper while sharpening?

shop deals on amazon
Wesspur
Rugged made
Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
City Slicker said:
I've read many posts on using a chain grinder and have considered buying the Maxx from Bailey's.

It seems like whenever my saw dealer sharpens a chain for me it comes back with blued teeth.

How do ya prevent losing the temper while sharpening?


One tree service guy told me, he does'nt care because he's making $800-1500 per job and can afford to buy a roll of chain.
Click to expand...

Buy the proper size file and a loop of Stihl chain. The cutters have the angle stamped in. The chain holds an edge quite nicely.
 
GB DIAMOND GRINDING WHEELS
THESE DIAMOND IMPREGNATED GRINDING WHEELS WILL LAST UP TO TEN TIMES LONGER THAN CONVENTIONAL STONES IN SAW CHAIN GRINDING APPLICATIONS.
DESCRIPTION OUR ITEM # YOUR PRICE BUY NOW
USED ON 3/4", 145 X 22 X 8MM S700455 99.95
Quantity:

attachment.php


Kinda looks like a chain saw sharpener "stone"...... with little hard specks on it.
 
If they are "diamond", they are fools, but,., maybe they are CBN and just confusing the market with the word "diamond".

BTW.. I've tried those and the two I got were junk - they went back. Very low quality... and one edge wasn't even a radius....

The best compromise between value and price is the Cylcone wheel that Baileys sells - near 2X the above price... We use them in our shop all day, and they last for a few thousand chains.
 
BobL said:
That's interesting because heating carbon steels to a blue colour typically knocks between 5 and 10 Rc Hardness points off their full hardeness. The steel in chain is typically around Rc58 - 59 and should drop to 51-52 when blued. Fortunately in most chain grinding situations this happens so quickly the whole cutter is not affected and a few sharpenings later the harder stuff is able to be accessed. The quicker and the more is ground off in one grinder stroke the more of the cutter will be affected.
Click to expand...

:agree2:

As I've mentioned in previous posts if you blue a chain up when grinding then you're doing something wrong - I've done it when trying to go too fast but as Bob mentioned it doesn't effect much of the tooth as a rule. I've also found it helps to dress the wheel often as this tends to stop the wheel from "glazing"? and overheating the tooth.
Sometimes you do have to take a fair bit of meat off unfortunately and have to watch overheating (like the .404" chain, 60" bar on my 3120XP that I hit an iron stake with inside a big Poplar on the weekend - not happy).
This is the tree and dad with my Dolmar...
09032009082.jpg

Any excuse for a photo opportunity really :)
 
Last edited:
MCW said:
Volunteering to hand file the wrecked 172DL .404" chain? :)
Lucky I've got a grinder, there is a fair bit of steel to take off to fix it!
Click to expand...

I usually hand sharpened all my chains, even the 192 link 3/8 chains for my 60" bars. I even converted 2 loops (a 25 ft rol)l of chain from 30º to ripping (10º) by hand - very theraputic - did it in the camp ground over two days when we went camping earlier this year, time spent filing was broken by the odd spot of fishing, eating mountains of fresh fish and of course the odd beer or two.

My view while sharpening.
attachment.php
 
Lakeside53 said:
Yes, it' the heat that take out the diamond when used on carbon Steel. It's not for Chainsaw chain grinding.... ABN/CBN is. You "could" use diamond but it would have to be done very slowly... There is a lot of hand powered solution for knives, chisels etc. I have several.
Click to expand...

Diamond is a very good conductor of heat. Diamonds should keep the surface they are grinding cooler, as the heat will disipate faster. I'm not sure why heat would affect the diamond more? I also don't undersand how carbon from the steel messes with the diamond structure and destroys it. Diamond is made up of carbon and is very stable. Do you mean that the steel fills up the space between the diamonds and reduces the effectiveness since the diamonds do not wear away? I sharpen my drill bits with a diamond wheel, and that seems to hold up pretty well.
 
After internet search, found this:

Superabrasives and diamond wheels includes a wide variety of cutters and grinding tools that use diamond or cubic boron nitride (CBN) abrasive grit as the cutting medium. These devices, including diamond wheels, abrasive saw blades, wheel dressers, grinding wheels and single point tools are used in applications where extreme strength and abrasiveness is required as diamond and CBN abrasive grains are among the hardest known materials. CBN superabrasives are used in steel grinding applications where even diamond abrasives fail to perform. For the most part, products in the superabrasives and diamond wheels category are rotary devices which perform their grinding or cutting actions as they spin against a given material.

Superabrasives and diamond wheels perform their function using either diamond or CBN grit. Synthetic diamond is produced synthetically in a high temperature, high-pressure process anvil press. Diamond is superabrasive grain with the highest known hardness and a cubic crystal structure. It is used for grinding nonferrous metals, ceramics, glass, stone, and building materials. Diamond is not useful in grinding steel or ferrous alloys because carbon or diamond readily dissolves or reacts with iron. Cubic boron nitride (CBN) is superabrasive grain with hardness second to diamond and a cubic crystal structure. CBN provide super grinding performance on carbon and alloy steel. Diamond is not useful in grinding steel or ferrous alloys because carbon or diamond readily dissolves or reacts with iron. CBN is also produced synthetically in a high temperature, high-pressure process anvil press; a process similar to synthetic diamond production.

In addition to their diamond or CBN constituency, some superabrasives and diamond wheels are designed with additional features to provide additional strength and performance life. Some superabrasives and diamond wheels have an abrasive grain with a metal layer or coating. These metal clad superabrasives are able to dissipate heat and enhance bonding. Ceramic grinding wheels are also available that can handle the high degree of stress that superabrasives and diamond wheels consistently encounter.
 
Yep.. you answered you own question. "not useful for steel or ferrous".

Now.. that diamond wheel you use - is it really diamond or is it CBN? If it is diamond.. you might want to stop using it.
 
Diamond might be hard but it is also brittle, What happens when diamond rubs against any surface is that a small amount of diamond powder is formed and this can help abrade the surface. If the diamond powder is not removed from the surface pretty soon after it is made its "diamond rubbing-on-diamond" which wrecks the diamond grinder/cutter. This is why when ceramics or such are cut with a diamond saw a lube such as water is used. On a ferrous surface the nanodiamonds cystals chemically bond into the inter grain boundaries and carbon literally dissolves from the diamond structure into the steel forming a high carbon iron (Fe3C) layer on the surface of the material. The high carbon layer is the able to bond more nanodiamonds onto the surface and pretty soon it's "diamond rubbing-on-diamond"!

As well as wrecking the diamond tool it leaves the surface of the steel in a high carbon work hardened state which makes it a pain to drill/grind/cut/sharpen.
 
BobL said:
Diamond might be hard but it is also brittle, What happens when diamond rubs against any surface is that a small amount of diamond powder is formed and this can help abrade the surface. If the diamond powder is not removed from the surface pretty soon after it is made its "diamond rubbing-on-diamond" which wrecks the diamond grinder/cutter. This is why when ceramics or such are cut with a diamond saw a lube such as water is used. On a ferrous surface the nanodiamonds cystals chemically bond into the inter grain boundaries and carbon literally dissolves from the diamond structure into the steel forming a high carbon iron (Fe3C) layer on the surface of the material. The high carbon layer is the able to bond more nanodiamonds onto the surface and pretty soon it's "diamond rubbing-on-diamond"!

As well as wrecking the diamond tool it leaves the surface of the steel in a high carbon work hardened state which makes it a pain to drill/grind/cut/sharpen.
Click to expand...

Excellent description Bob. Not hard to tell you're a scientist :)
 
BobL said:
Diamond might be hard but it is also brittle, What happens when diamond rubs against any surface is that a small amount of diamond powder is formed and this can help abrade the surface. If the diamond powder is not removed from the surface pretty soon after it is made its "diamond rubbing-on-diamond" which wrecks the diamond grinder/cutter. This is why when ceramics or such are cut with a diamond saw a lube such as water is used. On a ferrous surface the nanodiamonds cystals chemically bond into the inter grain boundaries and carbon literally dissolves from the diamond structure into the steel forming a high carbon iron (Fe3C) layer on the surface of the material. The high carbon layer is the able to bond more nanodiamonds onto the surface and pretty soon it's "diamond rubbing-on-diamond"!

As well as wrecking the diamond tool it leaves the surface of the steel in a high carbon work hardened state which makes it a pain to drill/grind/cut/sharpen.
Click to expand...

Bob....Thanks for your write up! I'm going to have to read it a couple of times.... But it'll sink in.... It's a bit on the nerd side..JK... but not over the top! :)

Rep sent! :clap:

Dan
 
BobL said:
That's what I'd call a hand-waving explanation rather than a scientific one, which would be using exciting terms like electron orbitals and spdf jargon :dizzy: but that would make me look like a total nerd!:cheers:
Click to expand...

By all means Bob, crack out the electron orbitals and spdf jargon :) Hard to believe you mill logs in your spare time and aren't helping NASA on weekends. Only kidding!
 
MCW said:
By all means Bob, crack out the electron orbitals and spdf jargon :) Hard to believe you mill logs in your spare time and aren't helping NASA on weekends. Only kidding!
Click to expand...

Not kidding, but From 1988 to 1990 I worked in the US as a cosmochemist (researching presolar grains in carbonaceous meteorites that contained nanodiamonds). I was not working for NASA but my salary was funded by NASA. I never thought the stuff I learned there would have anything to do with chainsaws.
 

Similar threads

Hipastore
How does a chainsaw work?
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
8K
U&A
U&A
E
Sharpening - my personal opinion and experience (not an expert)
4 5 6
Replies
100
Views
12K
link
link
Wow
Echos in the woods
2 3
Replies
43
Views
6K
huskihl
huskihl
eye.heart.trees
How often are you sharpening//replacing chains on your climbsaws?
Replies
17
Views
4K
Husky77
Husky77
M
My Sharpening Journey
Replies
12
Views
4K
fields_mj
F

Latest posts

Back
Top