Humboldt vs. Conventional

[joesawer]

I Do Not Understand What You Are Saying.

 

[Jacob J.]

The only reason any tree comes behind the stump is because something pushes it there. I am not sold on stump shot either.

I think stump shot was more prevalent back in the days when men were cutting the biggest timber. I've worked some second growth units that had virgin stumps in it still in good shape, and a lot of those old-time face cuts look awfully shallow and narrow to me...

 

[2dogs]

I don't worry about stump shot much at all either. I go for 2" most times just because that is what I learned.

 

[Gologit]

Why cant you guys spit out what you want to say... Your not going to hurt my feelings....

Okay...you're wrong. Glad we didn't hurt your feelings.

 

[GASoline71]

LMAO... What is a Hembolt?

Must be for fallin' Hemlocks...

Gary

 

[hammerlogging]

Why cant you guys spit out what you want to say... Your not going to hurt my feelings....

the conventional is not the same as the open face.

I use the humboldt when I need a super wide hinge to get a heavy leaning tree to come around sidehill, or when I need the butt to hit first, or if I just feel like it. You'll have less chance of fiber pull with an open faceand it does not get into merchantable wood.

I have little interest in or appreciation for the conventional.

 

[2dogs]

I have little interest in or appreciation for the conventional.

I agree though last week I took down two big rotten d-firs. One was 5' at the cut, the other was 5'9". I was using the 090 with a 4' bar. I used a conventional face because the saw was so bloody heavy I could not swing it into the cut. If the footing was better then maybe I would have succeeded but every movement caused me to slip down from the base of the tree. I started each cut with the 460 and the switched to the 090. I paid alot of money for that big nasty, noisy vibrating saw so I wanted to use it on some big wood.

 

[Greystoke]

Ummmm they are not matching their cuts good enough! Lol

Me thinks so too!!!

Of course they probably have an OSHA guy telling them to make the ####ing back cut two inches higher than the face:bang: which has it's place in my bag o tricks...but rarely. I have argued that with many a bullbuck and safety guy :deadhorse:

 

[slowp]

I'll take some pictures of the stumpage if any jobs ever get going.

 

[Terry L]

Humboldt and conventional both have their place. An advantage with the conventional is that the stump can be made lower. This will result in a stump that rots quicker. We are thinning stands of fir that are about 20 years old with our cut to length system. The low stumps of fir and hardwoods are mostly rotten, but the higher stumps are frequently quite sound, and in some circumstances, make it more difficult to move the machine through the stand. Usually the high stumps were cut using the humboldt, and the lower stumps were cut using the conventional. Yes, recutting the butt of the tree takes some extra cutting, if the mill requires it, but it can be worth it.

 

[tramp bushler]

LMAO... What is a Hembolt?

Must be for fallin' Hemlocks...

Gary

.

. Thanks for the laugh .. You and GoLogit ... I needed that
.
.Joe , we gotta have a talk about stump shot .... If youre fallin timber thru timber [ select cut , or opening up your strip ] you don,t want the tree to come zooming past u . good way to get dead . 2 -4 " of stump shot will keep the butt of the tree from coming backwards it the tree hangs up on the way down ... Humbolt faces will also help in this situation ... Saginaw faces are sometimes faster to put in and will often times give u a couple bushel a day bump in your scale . ... On snags that tend to spklit vertically the Sag face is by far the safest .......

 

[2dogs]

.

. Thanks for the laugh .. You and GoLogit ... I needed that
.
.Joe , we gotta have a talk about stump shot .... If youre fallin timber thru timber [ select cut , or opening up your strip ] you don,t want the tree to come zooming past u . good way to get dead . 2 -4 " of stump shot will keep the butt of the tree from coming backwards it the tree hangs up on the way down ... Humbolt faces will also help in this situation ... Saginaw faces are sometimes faster to put in and will often times give u a couple bushel a day bump in your scale . ... On snags that tend to spklit vertically the Sag face is by far the safest .......

Saginaw face? Could you explain please? The state of Michigan is so fouled up these days I can only emagine the Saginaw face means you have to pay tax on each one. Or maybe there are a bunch of college students yelling at you at each tree.

 

[slowp]

Saginaw face? Could you explain please? The state of Michigan is so fouled up these days I can only emagine the Saginaw face means you have to pay tax on each one. Or maybe there are a bunch of college students yelling at you at each tree.

I believe the college students would be more inclined to yell at the Humboldt.
But maybe not if they are "buying locally." Then they might be too mellow to raise a ruckus.

 

[ross_scott]

Over here in New Zealand the Humboldt is used on steep terrain as the conventional notch will cause the tree to bounce away from the stump and land further down hill where as the humboldt allows the tree to land on the ground without the extra down hill jump also with using skidders the other advantage is the stems will ride up and over the stump due to the angled cut being on the stump and not catch during an uphill drag when a skidder is on the crest of a hill resulting in less risk of skidder being pulled backwards down the hill or stems over ending during the drag if they catch on a stump.

 

[tramp bushler]

.. A Saginaw face is a standard old top face as opposed to a Humbolt face .. Perhaps just what some locals where I cut called a conventional face . Saginaw puts it from back east tho and u know what that means .....

.
.Ross , I see u have a 6.5x55 . What load do u shoot in it ??? I,m considering a CZ 550 American in 6.5x55 for a general purpose Interior / wolf / fur rifle ..
.
Back when we had pulp mills in Southeast . if I was cutting USFS ground and the butt log was going to be a pulp log I would throw in a Sag face to save time if there was a root or stump swell in the way of a humbolt . I,ve done it too when I knew the 6-8" taller stump would bust a tree I had to fall onto that stump ... .. The less wood u have to saw thru , the faster that tree can hit the ground ...

 

[John Ellison]

.
... On snags that tend to spklit vertically the Sag face is by far the safest .......

You are sure right about that tramp b.. Especially on those big S.E. red cedar snags that are full of shake. If it is big enough that you have to get in front of the face you are right in the bight. The bottom diagonal cut of a Humb. would be just like a chute for the slabs, right onto you.

 

[ross_scott]

.. A Saginaw face is a standard old top face as opposed to a Humbolt face .. Perhaps just what some locals where I cut called a conventional face . Saginaw puts it from back east tho and u know what that means .....

.
.Ross , I see u have a 6.5x55 . What load do u shoot in it ??? I,m considering a CZ 550 American in 6.5x55 for a general purpose Interior / wolf / fur rifle ..
.
Back when we had pulp mills in Southeast . if I was cutting USFS ground and the butt log was going to be a pulp log I would throw in a Sag face to save time if there was a root or stump swell in the way of a humbolt . I,ve done it too when I knew the 6-8" taller stump would bust a tree I had to fall onto that stump ... .. The less wood u have to saw thru , the faster that tree can hit the ground ...

I reload my own ammo for it. It is an old Carl Gustaf M96 Sporter. following bullet weights I load and are the most accurate out of my rifle and they are hunting rounds.
155gr lapua Round nose Over H4350(2460FPS) 0.5" @ 100 meters
85gr Sierra Hollow point over Varget(3300FPS) 0.420" @100 meters
120gr Nosler Ballistic tip over Varget(2700FPS) 0.646" @100 meters

 

[joesawer]

.

. Thanks for the laugh .. You and GoLogit ... I needed that
.
.Joe , we gotta have a talk about stump shot .... If youre fallin timber thru timber [ select cut , or opening up your strip ] you don,t want the tree to come zooming past u . good way to get dead . 2 -4 " of stump shot will keep the butt of the tree from coming backwards it the tree hangs up on the way down ... Humbolt faces will also help in this situation ... Saginaw faces are sometimes faster to put in and will often times give u a couple bushel a day bump in your scale . ... On snags that tend to spklit vertically the Sag face is by far the safest .......

I agree with you completely. I have not cut the big snags that are like you are talking about just a lot of bug eaten mush bags that you hope have a bone in the middle.
Maybe not completely, a ramp on the stump or a ramp on the butt. Which one is going to jump the stump easier?
I don't care to trust my life with either as often it bounces over the stump or slides by the side of it.
What bothers me is the people who say that you have to put stump shot on every tree. The only trees I have ever had come back behind the stump got pushed there by bent wood acting like a spring or gravity. I reserve the right to set the hinge up how and I want it for that particular tree. I don't think some body who is sitting in a office some distance and time away can better judge what is needed.
I was falling trees as a contractor for the FS on the Day fire. The only ones that they had me fall where the ones they did not want to mess with. They where mostly big dead rotten pines that had a problem that made them decide not to mess with it.
I caught some serious flack for not using enough or any stump shot. Well excuse me, but if it is to difficult for you to fall, you are not qualified to tell me how to do it.

 

[Gologit]

I caught some serious flack for not using enough or any stump shot. Well excuse me, but if it is to difficult for you to fall, you are not qualified to tell me how to do it.

Well said.

 

[Greystoke]

I agree with you completely. I have not cut the big snags that are like you are talking about just a lot of bug eaten mush bags that you hope have a bone in the middle.
Maybe not completely, a ramp on the stump or a ramp on the butt. Which one is going to jump the stump easier?
I don't care to trust my life with either as often it bounces over the stump or slides by the side of it.
What bothers me is the people who say that you have to put stump shot on every tree. The only trees I have ever had come back behind the stump got pushed there by bent wood acting like a spring or gravity. I reserve the right to set the hinge up how and I want it for that particular tree. I don't think some body who is sitting in a office some distance and time away can better judge what is needed.
I was falling trees as a contractor for the FS on the Day fire. The only ones that they had me fall where the ones they did not want to mess with. They where mostly big dead rotten pines that had a problem that made them decide not to mess with it.
I caught some serious flack for not using enough or any stump shot. Well excuse me, but if it is to difficult for you to fall, you are not qualified to tell me how to do it.

Good post