I want to improve my climbing rig

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I've been using a split tail with a Blake's hitch, and a foot loop for ascent/decent. The Blake's works real well for ascent, but it tends to hang up on decent, so much so that I sometimes have to hang from the knot with both hands and thrust all my weight downward just to get it moving again. Needless to say, that's inefficient.

It's time that I replace my rope, and I want to improve my ascent/decent method while I'm at it, so...

I'm thinking of getting some 1/2" Sterling HTP for a rope. I'm really sold on a 100% polyester rope. The only thing I'm unsure of with the HTP is that I've heard that it doesn't knot very well, but I want to get a large Petzl I'D to use with it so maybe the knotting won't be much of an issue.

I have a couple of question regarding this setup.

  1. Can the Petzl I'D be used for ascent as easily as a Blake's hitch?
  2. How does the HTP perform?

Thanks
 
I cannot comment on the Petzl ID or the HTP but I can tell you this: I never liked a Blake's hitch or a tautline. You should try using an open prussic. Depending on your size, you will want to either tie it with 2 coils on the bottom, two on top or three coils on the bottom and two on top if you are a heavier climber.. When I climbed on a traditional rig the open prussic is all I would use. It runs so much smoother than a blake's hitch or tautline.
 
I cannot comment on the Petzl ID or the HTP but I can tell you this: I never liked a Blake's hitch or a tautline. You should try using an open prussic. Depending on your size, you will want to either tie it with 2 coils on the bottom, two on top or three coils on the bottom and two on top if you are a heavier climber.. When I climbed on a traditional rig the open prussic is all I would use. It runs so much smoother than a blake's hitch or tautline.

I'll give it a try.

Do you have a pic of the open prussic, I can't find directions on how to tie it.

What rope are you using it on, and what size and type line should it be tied with?

Thanks
 
I've used it on Safety Blue, True Blue, Arbormaster and Poison Ivy and it has run smoothly with all. I don't have any rope in the house but I'll tie one and take a pic to post on the job tomorrow. I am teaching this knot to my new prospect climber anyway so I'll definitely be tying one tomorrow.
 
I've used it on Safety Blue, True Blue, Arbormaster and Poison Ivy and it has run smoothly with all. I don't have any rope in the house but I'll tie one and take a pic to post on the job tomorrow. I am teaching this knot to my new prospect climber anyway so I'll definitely be tying one tomorrow.

The name "Open" Prussic makes me think that it's an AutoBlock(a.k.a French Prussic), where you rap the lanyard around the rope a few times, then clip the ends into a biner.

Like this...

227660d1331100091-autoblock_knot.jpg


...Is that the same thing?

I look forward to the pic,

Thanks
 
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Open just means that it is tied with an open ended line instead of a prussic loop. It's just a plain Jane prussic tied on the end of your climbing line or with a split tail.
 
A taut-line hitch (as taught by the Boy Scouts) is two under, and one over. Most climbers do two under and two over. The critical difference from a prussic (open or closed) is that the wraps on the prussic are in opposite direction around the rope, whereas the taut-line continues around the rope in the same direction.

I haven't ever noticed that a Blake's binds up, unless it is not tied properly. My early attempts with a Blake's would bind up badly...because that was exactly how I was tying it. Badly!

Put up a pic of your Blake's, and we might be able to help you out real quick.
 
I haven't ever noticed that a Blake's binds up, unless it is not tied properly. My early attempts with a Blake's would bind up badly...because that was exactly how I was tying it. Badly!

Put up a pic of your Blake's, and we might be able to help you out real quick.

It might be the rope I'm using.

I've been using a Technora type rope that I traded up for an antenna install, I traded 30 minutes work for around $400 worth of rope.

It's a diamond braid, a little stiff with a lot of grip.

I'm gonna have to replace my digi cam so I can take some pics.
 
What application are you thinking of using sterling HTP for? As a general climbing line I don't think it would work out to well. It a static line. Great for repelling or accessing a tree on a mechanical device. But the same traits that make it good for those chores, make it a poor rope for working a tree.IMHO
In case of a fall you want a little give. HTP is a little stiff also. There are better choices I feel. I see HTP as a specially line. Great for what it is designed for. I want 250ft of it my self for accessing tall trees. But for that I would use 10 or 9.5mm.
I never used the ID, but I use the heck out of a gri gri and its pretty sluggish with a 1/2 line.
In the last 5 years I've graduated from using the tail of my climbing line with a taut hitch, to a split tail and blakes with a pulley, to a three holed hitch climber pulley and a VT on a closed sytem using all carabiners to connect every thing. Each move was like a quantum
leap.
Climbing lines I have gone from safety blue(I used for years)to trying and liking other better performing climbing lines. I use all 11mm or 11.5 lines now also.
There is a short learning curve every time you change up. But well worth getting use to. I can hardly climb with out a pulley to advance my knot now.
Don't get me started on SRT. The only way to access trees(unless you have a wraptor)
 
What application are you thinking of using sterling HTP for? As a general climbing line I don't think it would work out to well. It a static line. Great for repelling or accessing a tree on a mechanical device. But the same traits that make it good for those chores, make it a poor rope for working a tree.IMHO
In case of a fall you want a little give. HTP is a little stiff also. There are better choices I feel. I see HTP as a specially line. Great for what it is designed for. I want 250ft of it my self for accessing tall trees. But for that I would use 10 or 9.5mm.
I never used the ID, but I use the heck out of a gri gri and its pretty sluggish with a 1/2 line.
In the last 5 years I've graduated from using the tail of my climbing line with a taut hitch, to a split tail and blakes with a pulley, to a three holed hitch climber pulley and a VT on a closed sytem using all carabiners to connect every thing. Each move was like a quantum
leap.
Climbing lines I have gone from safety blue(I used for years)to trying and liking other better performing climbing lines. I use all 11mm or 11.5 lines now also.
There is a short learning curve every time you change up. But well worth getting use to. I can hardly climb with out a pulley to advance my knot now.
Don't get me started on SRT. The only way to access trees(unless you have a wraptor)

I like the HTP because of it's strength, plus it's 100% polyester.

I have been looking at some 1/2" access/rescue line, it has a polyester sheath with a nylon core, has a tensile strength of 10,000 lbs, weighs 7 lbs/100ft, and has more stretch to it. The same rope in 7/16 has a tensile strength of 7,800 lbs and a weight of 5.4 lbs/100ft, but it's intended for light use whereas the 1/2" is for general use. I'm not sure what the difference between general and light use is other than general is stronger; Where do you draw the line between what's strong enough to work on and what's not?

My want of the HTP is two fold, I want it for an access line for tree work, and as a decent line, along with a dynamic rope as a safety line, for window washing.

I think I'll end up with 3 ropes, the HTP, the access/rescue line, and a dynamic line.

Rope size is a bit of dilemma for me, I like the idea of a lighter rope, but at the same time I like the idea of a beefier rope. I think the extra pound and a half of weight is a good trade off for the extra strength, so I'll prolly go with the 1/2" for the working lines and the 7/16" for the dynamic/safety.

I've never had to test my rope during a fall, but your suggestion of using something with a little give to it makes a lot of sense, the rescue sounds like it's a cross between an access line and a dynamic line, so I'll give it a try.
 
Im fairly new to tree climbing but I use 7/16 (11mm) htp for getting in the tree . I always SRT my way up and depending on the type of work I'm doing I'll either stay SRT with a grigri or switch to DRT with a distel hitch if I'm going to be moving around a lot. I come from a climbing and search and rescue back round and just feel comfortable with kernmantle rope and petzl hardware. Just feels more familiar.
 
The htp rope is designed for srt only. it wont work good for drt. Get a piece of xtc or safety blue. The difference be general / light use is the NFPA rating on rope for rescue purposes. NFPA safety factors are higher then normal rope ( think the safety factor is 15:1). General rated rope is rated for up to a 600 lb working load ( 2 people).General use life safety rope must have a breaking strength of at least 40kn (8992lbf) and a diameter between 13mm (1/2") and 16mm (5/8"). Light use, is for single person load, 300 lbs. Light use life safety rope must have a breaking strength of at least 20kn (4496lbf) and a diameter between 9.5mm (3/8") and 13mm (1/2"). You will find out ropes of this type are alot harder to tie knots in them. The sheath is alot tighter on it so its alot stiffer. In my opinion it will carmalize the sheath alot quicker too.

I also had problems with a blakes hitch binding up. My problem was when i wanted to accend it was locked real tight. I switched to a vt and like it alot. I recently bought a lock jack, and i am still getting used to it, but i only use it in certain situations.

As far as the ID goes. DONT buy it to accend unless you want to have to put a pully in above the ID. Plus it is not rated for 1/2" rope anymore. I bought it when it first came out thinking it was gonna be the cats ass, well I was greatly disappointed. Mine hasnt came out of my bag for 2 years now. I called petzel about how hard it was to accend with, they told me it was because i wasnt using there rope. They sent me a 100' piece of there 1/2" rope. It didnt really make much of a difference. It is a great tool if you are desending, but you can accend with it worth a ####. If you still want one, i will sell mine cheap.
 
The htp rope is designed for srt only. it wont work good for drt. Get a piece of xtc or safety blue. The difference be general / light use is the NFPA rating on rope for rescue purposes. NFPA safety factors are higher then normal rope ( think the safety factor is 15:1).

The rescue rope's specs stated that the NFPA safety factor is 15:1

The specs on it are...

  • NFPA Tensile Strength: 10,000 lbf.
  • WLL: 667 lbs
  • NFPA Rating: General Use
  • NFPA 10% Elongation: 6.8 %
  • Elongation at failure: 21%
  • Weight / 100 ft.: 7.0 lbs.

I don't know, but maybe a little too springy?

I had thought about getting some BlueStreak, I like the extra strength, the elongation is less(2.2% @540lbs), and it's a little heavier. Is this a good rope for drt?

I really need to get in some drt practice. Off the top of my head it seems the biggest advantage of using drt is that it reduces the load on the crotch, I can see how that would be beneficial when working out near the ends of branches.


General rated rope is rated for up to a 600 lb working load ( 2 people).General use life safety rope must have a breaking strength of at least 40kn (8992lbf) and a diameter between 13mm (1/2") and 16mm (5/8"). Light use, is for single person load, 300 lbs. Light use life safety rope must have a breaking strength of at least 20kn (4496lbf) and a diameter between 9.5mm (3/8") and 13mm (1/2"). You will find out ropes of this type are alot harder to tie knots in them. The sheath is alot tighter on it so its alot stiffer. In my opinion it will carmalize the sheath alot quicker too.

I've used similar ropes for rappelling, I noticed that they get glazed if you do a lot of high speed stuff.

I also had problems with a blakes hitch binding up. My problem was when i wanted to accend it was locked real tight. I switched to a vt and like it alot. I recently bought a lock jack, and i am still getting used to it, but i only use it in certain situations.

I don't have much problem with it ascending, it slides up pretty well, but being a stiff rope it seems to put a crook in it's self and wants to wrap around and tighten when descending.

As far as the ID goes. DONT buy it to accend unless you want to have to put a pully in above the ID. Plus it is not rated for 1/2" rope anymore. I bought it when it first came out thinking it was gonna be the cats ass, well I was greatly disappointed. Mine hasnt came out of my bag for 2 years now. I called petzel about how hard it was to accend with, they told me it was because i wasnt using there rope. They sent me a 100' piece of there 1/2" rope. It didnt really make much of a difference. It is a great tool if you are desending, but you can accend with it worth a ####. If you still want one, i will sell mine cheap.

I can put it to good use doing window drops.

Which I'D do you have, there are a couple of models. PM me with your model and asking price.

Thanks
 
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i had the same problem with the blakes hitch when i started monkeyin with it and have moved on to VT, but id recommend working out that kink. after you dress the knot try sitting back in your saddle and pulling the running end coming out of the knot at the same time to set it. Blake's Hitch - YouTube this helped me and wasnt discussed anywhere else i looked. gl
 
If this helps....I found that a blakes was VERY poor on my tachyon line. An ocean 10mm eye to eye is great. I like a distel. But I have never had a problem with a blakes with any other rope. Only the tachyon. I prefer the bluemoon/poisin ivy but I still like the tachyon to.
 
i had the same problem with the blakes hitch when i started monkeyin with it and have moved on to VT, but id recommend working out that kink. after you dress the knot try sitting back in your saddle and pulling the running end coming out of the knot at the same time to set it. Blake's Hitch - YouTube this helped me and wasnt discussed anywhere else i looked. gl

That's something I've been doing to get it to hold my weight, I pull the tail where my figure 8 stopper knot is to set the knot, after that it works well enough, it's after I start descending that it heats up and gets tight.

I beginning to believe it's the rope I'm using more than anything.
 
If this helps....I found that a blakes was VERY poor on my tachyon line. An ocean 10mm eye to eye is great. I like a distel. But I have never had a problem with a blakes with any other rope. Only the tachyon. I prefer the bluemoon/poisin ivy but I still like the tachyon to.

Is the tachyon a hard rope? The rope I've been using is hard through to the core, so there's no contraction and expansion going on, it just tightens up and get tighter as it heats up.

I think a more pliable rope would solve a lot of the problem.
 
If you want to come out of the tree fast, and keep your rope from glazing use a figure 8 or other device. You can back it with a hitch if you like.
 
If you want to come out of the tree fast, and keep your rope from glazing use a figure 8 or other device. You can back it with a hitch if you like.

I've considered using an 8, or even a rappel rack.

I haven't heard much about the Uniscender; Anyone ever use it?

What I really want to be able to do is descend immediately, in a smooth seamless motion, without having to do a change over, but I'm prolly preaching to the quire now.:)
 

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