If you've read "The Golden Spruce"...

[northmanlogging]

I have a copy of the new movie, Hadwin's Revenge, but haven't watched it yet, wanting to watch it with some of my tree working buds.. but we've all been busy. Looking forward to it! I'd say any anti-logging bias is good, as far as the abhorrent rate at which they are still logging old growth on Vancouver Island and in BC
. The Ancient Forest Alliance is doing what they can to stem the tide, and at least protect what can be saved. Google "Big Lonely Doug" for a video of some of my BC Arb friends climbing the tree

About halfway through the first paragraph

Ummm, where in hell did I say I'm anti-logging? Perhaps you should quit being so sensitive. What I don't like is what went on in the past and what is going on in Canada...clearcuts too large.... the best forest is not one with stands of even aged second growth, but a diverse one... and that can be maintained better if less logging is done...and, where possible and practical, more standing trees left.. maybe some even thinned or crown reduced to reduce windthrow chances while the new forest grows around them. I'm well aware of how fast a woods can regenerate, especially redwood and spruce, even Doug-fir, and know clearcuts, in general, are best for regeneration of a sun loving tree like fir....
As well, the ecosystem is very important, and is always going to be more diverse and healthy in a diverse forest.

There is a lot wrong with this second quote, not the least of which crown reduction on a stand of timber is about the stupidest and pointless thing I can think of, these ain't japanese maples in someones back yard, and no one in their right mind is going to suggest hiring a bunch of overpaid tree climbers to trim the branches on a tree in the middle of nowhere. Simply not cost effective.

As far as clear cuts vs thinning, every forest needs is own treetment, sometimes its better to just start over, on a grand scale.

 

[northmanlogging]

Also if you live in seattle, where did you get all this experience with redwoods and spruce, not a whole lot of either growing in big stands around here, and redwoods aren't even native. Douglas Fir in a forest environment grows fairly slowly, because its not in someones fertilized yard getting watered weekly.

Seriously though, do a cost analysis on crown reducing 5 trees per acre on an 80 acre site, each one approaching 150' tall and no where near a road, 5 being the current norm to be left per acre. More if we go with your plan.

Or we could just replant and call it good for 50-80 years.

 

[slowp]

I urge preservation minded people to start at home. You might want to join my group, Friends of Seattle (actually the whole Pungent Sound Area). We advocate the restoration of the greater Seattle area. We recommend tearing up pavement, moving earth to restore the original hills, and requiring home owners to plant native trees and species which will help the reintroduction of grizzlies, black bear, cougar, gophers, owls, etc. We will assist in creek restoration--tearing out culverts, restoring the creek beds to their original meandering routes, reforestation, etc.

Since the NW Forest Plan has worked so well in our National Forests, we shall implement the same program in Seattle. You will not use motorized equipment and vehicles from March 1 to July 1 as this is Northern Owl breeding and nesting season. If an active nest is located, that time will be extended to September 15. From July to Sept, you will be restricted from the same--no noise or operating of vehicles and equipment until one hour after sunrise and the shutting down of equipment and vehicles one hour before sunset. This is because the Seattle Area is in potential Marbled Murrelet habitat. You will not run vehicles and equipment from Dec. 1 to April 1 because the Seattle area is deer and elk winter habitat. You may drive around in the remaining months until we restore the roads and parking lots by subsoiling, restoring the natural contours and planting back the native species that will grow into an old growth forest.

We shall get laws passed restricting the use of lawn fertilizers, outlaw sewage disposal--no pottying allowed, no herbicides, no pesticides, no drugs of any kind as those substances affect salmon in detrimental ways. The formula for locating houses near water will be 1.5 times the height of the tallest tree for that site condition. And so forth.

Anybody want to join?

 

[Gologit]

I urge preservation minded people to start at home. You might want to join my group, Friends of Seattle (actually the whole Pungent Sound Area). We advocate the restoration of the greater Seattle area. We recommend tearing up pavement, moving earth to restore the original hills, and requiring home owners to plant native trees and species which will help the reintroduction of grizzlies, black bear, cougar, gophers, owls, etc. We will assist in creek restoration--tearing out culverts, restoring the creek beds to their original meandering routes, reforestation, etc.

Since the NW Forest Plan has worked so well in our National Forests, we shall implement the same program in Seattle. You will not use motorized equipment and vehicles from March 1 to July 1 as this is Northern Owl breeding and nesting season. If an active nest is located, that time will be extended to September 15. From July to Sept, you will be restricted from the same--no noise or operating of vehicles and equipment until one hour after sunrise and the shutting down of equipment and vehicles one hour before sunset. This is because the Seattle Area is in potential Marbled Murrelet habitat. You will not run vehicles and equipment from Dec. 1 to April 1 because the Seattle area is deer and elk winter habitat. You may drive around in the remaining months until we restore the roads and parking lots by subsoiling, restoring the natural contours and planting back the native species that will grow into an old growth forest.

We shall get laws passed restricting the use of lawn fertilizers, outlaw sewage disposal--no pottying allowed, no herbicides, no pesticides, no drugs of any kind as those substances affect salmon in detrimental ways. The formula for locating houses near water will be 1.5 times the height of the tallest tree for that site condition. And so forth.

Anybody want to join?

Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad. If this happens the Seatellites will just move away. Some of them will want to move back to California. We don't want them.
Some of them will want to move to other areas of your state...like Omak. That sounds better to me.

 

[Scablands]

Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad. If this happens the Seatellites will just move away. Some of them will want to move back to California. We don't want them.
Some of them will want to move to other areas of your state...like Omak. That sounds better to me.

Dear God, no! Keep them on the west side. We're particular about who we associate with around these parts.

 

[madhatte]

Since the NW Forest Plan has worked so well in our National Forest

Even though I know you're joking, the words alone make my hands quake in frustration and rage. Gonna have to drink some overpriced artisan-brewed beeramajig to calm my shaky nerves.

 

[slowp]

Dear God, no! Keep them on the west side. We're particular about who we associate with around these parts.

I understand. I have been a "we" and may become such again. I am bisidual or bi slopal--can live on either side of the Cascades. In fact, the original Friends of Seattle organization was formed years ago in the Methow Valley. I think it needs to be resurrected. Or something. Not that it did the Methow any good.

Madhatte: Beer? It just so happens that there will be a beer garden at this weekend's Winlock Pickerfest, held in Minoqua or something like that park near Winlock. I hope ****'s Brewery is featured, but I do not know. Consider this a shameless plug for said festival. The organizer has put out a plea for canopies.

 

[madhatte]

Hrmm. Perhaps I'll go visit the giant egg, then.

 

[slowp]

If the giant egg was in front of the community hall, it was not there for their Egg Fest. I fear that it is off being renovated, kind of like the giant Yardbird.
My group played there during Egg Fest.

 

[slowp]

Nevermind. I think I was on the wrong side of the tracks.
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/4033

 

[madhatte]

Winlock without the Egg would be like Disneyland without the overpricing!

 

[northmanlogging]

Winlock without the Egg would be like Disneyland without the overpricing!

You mean even more crowded and more sketchy? Full of even dumber people from farther away?

 

[northmanlogging]

Dinnee land not winlock... Winlock is nice... with or without the egg.

 

[madhatte]

P'raps I mangled my malapropism; does "overrated" work better?

 

[northmanlogging]

Dinnee lann is all fine and good if yer like say under 12... but the rides are a little on the tame side, and there are way to many people there... Hel there's too many people in Winlock fer me anymore.

So yeah overrated works.

 

[Scablands]

I understand. I have been a "we" and may become such again. I am bisidual or bi slopal--can live on either side of the Cascades.

I lived on the west side for about eight years. I'm fine with most of the folks from the small towns on the west side. As far as Seattle and its 'burbs, every time I'm there and around those people, I just can't get away fast enough.

And I am all for your old growth restoration plan. That needs to end up as an initiative.

 

[slowp]

I shall look for the egg on my way in. Perhaps it was painted camouflage when last I was there. But I thought I heard a rumor that it was being refurbished.

Yardbirds has some nice hoodies for sale in the grocery store. I almost bought one. They have the 12th bird on them.

 

[madhatte]

If you see the bossman Jason, remind him that he's doing heroic work bringing the mighty Yard Birds back from the ashes. He's a fan of the mythology as much as or more than anybody. Also, my old friend Rob did the documentary. I got my copy of the DVD in exchange for assessing the hazard of some trees on his property in Rochester!

 

[Deleted member 110241]

Ummm, where in hell did I say I'm anti-logging? Perhaps you should quit being so sensitive. What I don't like is what went on in the past and what is going on in Canada...clearcuts too large.... the best forest is not one with stands of even aged second growth, but a diverse one... and that can be maintained better if less logging is done...and, where possible and practical, more standing trees left.. maybe some even thinned or crown reduced to reduce windthrow chances while the new forest grows around them. I'm well aware of how fast a woods can regenerate, especially redwood and spruce, even Doug-fir, and know clearcuts, in general, are best for regeneration of a sun loving tree like fir....
As well, the ecosystem is very important, and is always going to be more diverse and healthy in a diverse forest.

It's better to start thinking about preserving the old forests while they still exist. Here in Sweden we have cut pretty much everything in the 19th century and have very few, forests that are more than 200 years old now. Most of the older trees are just over 100 years, that's nothing for a fir...
Nowadays we leave old trees and groups of trees on the clear cuts, some of them survive and will be "old growth" one day, others die and becomes important for birds and various bugs.
I fail to understand how some loggers don't give a **** about anything other than cutting down trees, there's more to logging than that.

 

[northmanlogging]

It's better to start thinking about preserving the old forests while they still exist. Here in Sweden we have cut pretty much everything in the 19th century and have very few, forests that are more than 200 years old now. Most of the older trees are just over 100 years, that's nothing for a fir...
Nowadays we leave old trees and groups of trees on the clear cuts, some of them survive and will be "old growth" one day, others die and becomes important for birds and various bugs.
I fail to understand how some loggers don't give a **** about anything other than cutting down trees, there's more to logging than that.

the difference is that in most of europe, there isn't any true old growth, i.e. virgin forest, its all been cut some time in the last 200 years. Whilst out here there is millions, no bull ****, millions of acres of uncut virgin forest.

Meanwhile the bunny huggers and duck squeezers keep going for more and more "conservation" personally I feel there is a happy medium now, but the granola munchers will never be satisfied as long as the lawyers can get rich of suing the gubernment.