leaving rope in tree

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rmihalek

Where's the wood at?
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Is there any downside to leaving my climbing rope in the tree over night or even for a few days? I climb in my yard, so there's little risk of theft, but I was wondering if it's known whether squirrels like to chew on the rope or anything like that.

What I've been doing so far is to pull the climbing line down while at the same time sending a tag line up so then the next day I just have to pull my climbing line back up. It's not a big deal, but it takes another few minutes out of an already tight afternoon schedule.

Thanks,
Bob
 
leaving rope in a tree

Well, there's always the problem of the "attractive nuisance". Someone, even someone who has no business on your property or near your stuff, can sue you (or their parents can sue you) for "maintaining an attractive nuisance" if they should injure themselves on your property, and likely win a judgement against you (and your insurance company). Not a pretty picture. Ladders, unfenced pools or ponds, open excavations, and suchlike are prime targets
 
I'd say it not the best idea i'm not sure what type of weater you get but i'm sure lots of UV isn't good for rope. Also if it rains then gets down to freezing temps the rope might get some kind of freeze thaw action going on which really would cause dammage. I'd just leave a throwline up there.
 
Bob, I very often leave a throw line in my trees for a few days, but I never leave a climbing line up. UV exposure is a real problem down here, but also - the squirrels love to chew on anything plastic, so I won't trust them with my climbing lines. They almost completely consumed a small ladder with plastic steps that my mom left out in her carport, for no apparent reason other than innate destructive tendencies. I also had them cut one of my tag lines - a 200 foot piece of parachute cord I had left in a big cypress tree.
 
UV exposure over a few days isn't a problem. You get the same UV exposure leaving the rope in a tree for 3 days as you get using the rope for three full days.

Freeze thaw cycles aren't a problem with kernmantle ropes, and probably aren't a problem with other synthetic ropes either. Kernmantle ropes were developed for mountaineering, and yep, stuff freezes!

Days in a tree isn't a problem. Months and months would be bad for the outside of the rope, but probably wouldn't cause significant damage to the core.

(I've been up 8mm fixed lines that have been in place for years in the mountains. Not really recommended, but common enough practice.)
 
Yes animals can be a real problem. If they were to chew say where the rope went over the crotch and you couldn't see what they did you could fall once you begin to climb if they damaged the rope enough. I wouldn't recommend leave a throw line in the tree. And tie the throw line to the trunk of the tree with a step stool or something so no one could mess or get hurt playing with it.
 
Climb020, That was my biggest concern: some sharp toothed rodent staggering home from an acorn bender might just decide to gnaw on my line some night. However, whenever I clip in to start a climb, I always just swing around a bit, bounce a little, adjust the saddle, double check the knots, biners, etc. while still within a few feet of the ground just to be sure all is well. So, if there was some gnawing going on up at the crotch (ouch!) then my guess is the rope would break right then, but if it didn't I'd see the chewed on section as I was going up and the rope was running down through the hitch.

Cheers,
Bob
 
Climb020 said:
Yes animals can be a real problem. If they were to chew say where the rope went over the crotch and you couldn't see what they did you could fall once you begin to climb if they damaged the rope enough.

Is this a hypothetical "animals could be a problem if they ate nylon but they don't", or do you have any experience with animals eating rope?

We have different animals down here, and "the critter ate my rope" is unheard of. We had a storeroom full of ropes (1500m all up?) that had a rodent problem for ten years, and not a hint of a problem.
 
The accepted safety practice for rec climbing is to do a complete gear check before a climb. So if you left the rope in the tree you'll still want to inspect it. This would consist of running the rope through your hands to feel for any inconsistency in the rope and to do a visual check. This would cover for the possibility of damage from animals, falling branch or any other remote but possible sources of rope damage.

It can be done very easily without losing your TIP by tying the two ends of the rope together to create a continuous loop.
-moss
 
sawn_penn said:
Is this a hypothetical "animals could be a problem if they ate nylon but they don't", or do you have any experience with animals eating rope?

Sawn, rodent's teeth, unlike ours, grow continually. They HAVE to chew to keep their teeth from outgrowing their mouths. If they get enough abrasion from their natural food source (like hickory hulls) well and good. If they are making a nice fat living on sunflower seeds from people's bird feeders in the subdivisions, they chew on Everything. House wiring, lead covers for home drain vents, plastic steps on step ladders, and (yes) nylon parachute cord tag lines (confirmed, actually happened. Would gladly have eaten the squirrel but had left my.22 in the truck). They also chewed through the (hardware store) nylon rope I used to hang my mom's bird feeder. I had to use clothes hanger wire to defeat them, and it had several shiny nicks in it until Katrina came by and finished it off.
 
sawn_penn said:
You get the same UV exposure leaving the rope in a tree for 3 days as you get using the rope for three full days.

True. But if you USE the rope 3 days you get the benefit (money or fun) of climbing on it. If you just leave it in the tree to save a few minutes of rigging you've got 3 days of depreciation without much benefit.
 
Fireaxman said:
True. But if you USE the rope 3 days you get the benefit (money or fun) of climbing on it. If you just leave it in the tree to save a few minutes of rigging you've got 3 days of depreciation without much benefit.

I've been using ropes seriously (caving, climbing, mountaineering, industrial access, vert rescue) for twenty years. I've never retired a rope because of UV exposure. Other things (falls, abrasion, age) get the rope first. There are plenty of UV exposed ropes and slings fixed on climbs, but that's what you get leaving the gear in open all year round.

Also in this twenty years I've never heard a "my dog ate my ropework" story.

There are enough real ways to get into trouble with ropes without having to dream up imaginary ones.

Leaving a rope in a tree for a few days sounds like a convenient idea to me.
 
A climbing line is actually a life line and this is the name I always use. Any time a person ascends or descends on a line they are betting their life, or someone elses, that it will hold. A few minutes to reset the life line would be my first and only choice.
 
Bob has read both sides of the story. It is his decision. I store my ropes in a safe, dry aluminum tool box and check them out before every climb. Each climber consciously or unconsciously does his or her own risk/benefit analysis.

Either way, I'm glad he asked, and (sawn) I'm glad you gave us the benefit of your experience. He will be able to make an informed decision.
 
Yes, I'm absolutely NOT saying, "don't worry about your rigging, it'll be right even if you are careless".

There are always tradeoffs. Be safe.
 
Personally I would keep doing what you have been doing , with the tag line . I taught my daughters to climb , and my wife was telling me that I should just get a line and leave in the tree for them. Wife got me off gaurd actully considered it till my oldest " just turned 15 few days ago " said wont it get wore out and unsafe from the sun and weather?
 
I recently read the book titled TREE, by James Balog, that has some amazing photography of the country's champion trees (and other noteworthy trees.) One of the trees is named the Del Norte Titan and is a huge redwood.

The anecdote (or essay) that accompanies the photo describes an incident with some unidentified canopy dweller. Some of the local canopy researchers left a black nylon line over a branch some 300+ feet high for easy re-entry. When they returned they found that something had chewed through it.

The third attempt involved a steel cable which wasn't long enough to reach the ground, and the remainder was finished with nylon cord. The critter even climbed down the steel cable then chewed the nylon that linked to the steel.

In a non-tree related incident, I had a friend who had their boat sank by musk rats. Musk-rats like rubber so they ate all the rubber seals and grommets that keep the boat water tight.

Kernmantle rodent chow? Hmmmm........

As far as safety goes,:deadhorse: :deadhorse:


Lucas
 
Please consider...

sawn_penn said:
UV exposure over a few days isn't a problem. You get the same UV exposure leaving the rope in a tree for 3 days as you get using the rope for three full days.

Freeze thaw cycles aren't a problem with kernmantle ropes, and probably aren't a problem with other synthetic ropes either. Kernmantle ropes were developed for mountaineering, and yep, stuff freezes!

Days in a tree isn't a problem. Months and months would be bad for the outside of the rope, but probably wouldn't cause significant damage to the core.

(I've been up 8mm fixed lines that have been in place for years in the mountains. Not really recommended, but common enough practice.)

I urge you to read the article I have written regarding postings about this very topic/issue, it could save your life!

PLEASE CONSIDER?

Arb' rope is completely different to abseiling/mountaineering rope...

The exterior sheath of mountaineering rope is ONLY a PROTECTIVE cover over a woven core of A KNOWN rated strength...

ARB' ROPE is a thick RATED SHEATH over a core that keeps the sheath in form...

Arb' rope is made as such because we use it in extreme conditions e.g. in constant ascent and descent using a rope friction hitch, around falling logs and being constantly loaded and trodden on or tensioned over limbs THEREFORE our sheath needs to be able to stand up to constant heat through perpetual friction AND we need to be able to inspect frequently the working part of our rope for damage which is the rated outer sheath...(Ignoring at this point the fact that our working environment is filthy…)

If you leave Arb' rope out in the sun the rated part (the sheath) will get sun affected as the sun filters through the canopy (or belts down directly in most cases) on the resting line WHERE AS days being actually used in the sun sees the line constantly moving and therefore not subject to constant U.V. light in any one spot...USING YOUR ROPE FOR THREE DAYS IS NOT THE SAME AS LEAVING IT IN THE SUN FOR THREE DAYS...

I have read repeatedly on here (ArboristSite) posts by even those well respected and highly experienced and qualified in the industry claiming the use of mountaineering rope in Arb’ to be acceptable...

I will attempt to list and detail the reasons IMHO I believe it is a fallacy that you can safely use mountaineering rope in most Arb' work situations (I will also attempt give reasonable examples)...

An example we use in instructing students is this; if you were to drop a large piece of wood on your line as it lay across a solid surface (potentially a common occurrence in Arb’ work BUT NOT IN MOUNTAINEERING) you can easily (relatively) see the damage (if any) to the rated (very thick, purpose built) sheath and remove the section or discard the rope if this rated sheath has been damaged…

IF the same incident were to occur with mountaineering rope the damage to the structural or integral/rated part of the rope (that being the inner core) could not as easily be observed, therefore, potentially you could be climbing (or hanging) on damaged or even partially cut rope and you wouldn’t be able to tell because the thin outer non rated protective sheath would likely hide this defect...

The other critical part I see in this argument which is one that leaves me feeling sickened when I hear about blokes using mountaineering ropes for Arb' work is;

this protective sheath on MOUNTAINEERING ROPES IS NOT DESIGNED TO HAVE ROPE RUBBED AGAINST IT AS IT IS BOTH NOT STRUCTURALLY INTEGRAL TO THE LINE AND IS EXTREMELY THIN AND THEREFORE CAN BE MELTED and IN TURN CUT BY THE HEAT OF A RUBBING ROPE OR DEVICE (LIMB ETC, ETC) RELATIVELY EASILY…

Therefore, using any rope friction hitch/prussic or ANY FORM OF FRICTION DESCENT DEVICE on mountaineering rope as is done constantly within tree work where that device or hitch heats up (which it always will) and in turn burn/s through the very thin and non purpose designed mountaineering rope outer sheath which in turn will send the climber to the deck as the sheath strips down from the point of sheath failure which then in turn leaves your ascent /descent device exposed to the now unprotected core and the same heat will then very quickly cut this also...

Arb' rope avoids this scenario by having firstly a very thick and structurally rated outer sheath both designed to accommodate and dissipate heat and accommodate ropes rubbing against it (within reason)… (We use a rope friction hitch/prussic so we can discard them regularly as the week link in the system or the disposable link in the system…)

Arb’ rope is also a thicker rope with a design that assists heat dispersion through the weave and assembly of the sheath and core and by the very nature of it being thicker in diameter...

Devices such as “whale tails” and other "heat sinking" abseil/mountaineering devices were specifically designed to both assist the mountaineer in very slow descents because of the nature of mountaineering rope and to dissipate heat from the belay/decent device preventing rope burn...

(Fall arrest (or “Dynamic”) ropes in mountaineering are completely different again in their dynamic nature and as we don’t use dynamic ropes in Arb' I won’t bring them into this post...)

NEEDLES to say Mountaineering ropes are not and never were designed for tree work, they are purpose designed and manufactured for mountaineering and therefore for the combined use with hardware devices of mountaineering under a static load system for ascent assist and descent control using mechanical ascent and descent devices...(However as it is a static application ascent by prussic is acceptable on static Mountaineering rope BUT ONE SHOULD NEVER DESCEND ON PRUSSIC WITH MOUNTAINEERING ROPE UNLESS IN EMERGENCY OR SELF RESCUE SITUATION ONLY!)
 

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