Lighter/thinner or heavier/thicker?

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I see lots of activity on this thread yesterday while I was tied up with "honeydo" items. This post will be a bit lengthy as I try to comprehensively respond.

First item, as a result of a response on another forum, it's dawned on me that I mixed up two of my trees and referred to this as an ash. The ash is the one I took down 10 days ago, this one's actually an aspen.

Next item, Dadatwins suggested some photos, etc. I've included 5 photos. #1 shows the aspen at left, next to a red maple. My home also appears. #2 is a closup of the dead top from the same location as #1. #3 and #4 are from behind my home from same location. #5 is also from the backside, shifted slightly. More photos to follow in another post.

Dadatwins makes several other points that I'll respond to. Yes, I've reviewed the injury reports and will not proceed until I'm fully prepared and assess the risk as manageable. As to a job plan, I'm leaning at this point toward putting my rope high into the maple and pulling myself over to the aspen, to provide a quick escape route. (Comments?) I'd plan to stand on one of the two strong limbs that appear approx midway up on left in photos #3, 4, and 5 in order to take down the top. Another strong limb on the left side, just above roof line in #5 would provide another good perch for the next section. From there, I would fell the remaining spar.

DDM, interesting idea about a "freelance"/supervisor. I'll pursue local availability.

Elmore - Vonage commercial? Assume this is TV? I don't watch much and am not familiar. Is this relevant or an attempt at humor?

Ax-man, my thought process about this is classic chain/weak link. Of course you're right, it's not just about the rope (or any other link), but none can be ignored. I'm skilled at using a saw, but not yet in a tree. But then, I guess everyone who's ever used a saw in a tree has said this originally. I.E. Everyone has a first time! I take the risks seriously and will manage appropriately.

Yes, this post was moved from Homeowner Help. Curious, as it has substantially less to do with my future intent (rec climbing) than about my short term goal of dropping this tree. (Maybe it's as TreeCo suggests; the mod(s) were trying to "hide" it.) In any event, thx for comments on rope/saddle, and for your cautions and thoughts on stepping stone approach. I'm going into this "low and slow", am in no rush on this, and won't go until I'm comfortable I've minimized the risk to acceptable level.

TreeCo - Oh, man,
It's to early for the "Arboricultural Injuries and Fatalities " forum.
that hurts! I see I haven't yet convinced you that the probability of me completely this successfully is high, due to proper preparation and planning.
 
EngineerDude said:
TreeCo - Oh, man, that hurts! I see I haven't yet convinced you that the probability of me completely this successfully is high, due to proper preparation and planning.

1. ED, this group can be brutal... put on your brass protector, and hang in here... primarily, there are the best of intentions (ie. you not landing head first on the earth) here on this list... but if i can survive with my little homeowner questions when accused of not demonstrating sufficient cajones, anyone can!!! (i did buy extra brass polish, however...) :)

2. praise you for doing Honey Do projects
 
You have taken some good pictures Engineer, this is hardly what I would call a good tree for a first time attempt at getting your feet wet trying to take a tree down.

I don't know guys do we help EngineerDude out ??? Personally I would go the freelance climber route as DDM suggested.

How long has this Popular been standing dead ???? ( toooo long in my book ) It is an accident waiting to happen, for the uniniated.

As far as putting a rope high in the Maple tree, personally I wouldn't go that route, you would be fighting the rope angle the whole time trying to take this tree down. For you it might be the best approach, just to keep you out of trouble.

Get some climb time under your belt before taking this tree on.

Larry
 
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Engineer,

Have you selected which of the highest limbs your going to be using as a gin pole????

Larry
 
Trinity, can't believe you actually referred to "cajones" (actual spelling is cojones, you'll see why I know and note this in a moment). You'll probably think I'm making this up, but I swear it's true, my initial and name are actually C.A. Jones. Before the rest of you jump on this, I'm not trying to suggest anything with this, but was just too amused by Trinity's reference to pass up the opportunity to respond.

OK, as promised, here's some more pics. #8 looks from across the street in front of my house toward my house on right and neighbor's on left. (#1 from previous post looks at tree from in front of this neighbor's house.) #9 is another view of the top. #10 shows the large limb on which I'm tentatively planning to stand to take down the top. (Note that this is at about 43 feet up.) #11 shows the top portion of the tree looking up while standing next to the trunk.

Ax-man, yes, I wish this were a bit less of a first project. Unfortunately I don't have any small dead/dying trees. Not sure how long this tree has been on its way out. The torn-off limbs seen clearly in #10 broke during 70 mph wind in Sep '03. (Unfortunately, they didn't quite come down. I pulled them down with Zing-It sometime this spring. As to the integrity of my proposed perches, I've bounced with rope slung over both of them (separately), approx 6 feet from spar, with approx 390 pounds attached. (Teenage son and I.) No cracking sounds, etc., so I'm confident they'll support me.

Any perceived specific issues resulting from the characteristics of aspen/poplar with respect to taking down the dead top?
 
Why all the talk about ropes, any good rope will do. Climb it with spurs and a steel core strap, strip and chunk. The rope might never be used. Done lots of removals and only used my rope to rappel to it or out of the butt log and only if it was tall. With a tautline of course, try not to over-intellectualize all treework people. Engineer Dude, go in the bush and climb at few easy little trees to get some practical experience. Before I ever climbed I ran a saw for years and fell and bucked thousands of trees but in the air it is a whole different world. Good luck.
 
TreeCo, yeah, I knew you were playing with me. My response was feigned pain. As to chunking down vs. rigging, I'm leaning toward the former, as the latter seems to add another element of complexity (not to mention cost; i.e. bull rope) to an already complex process. I'm not particular concerned with lawn damage (soil is clay, hard as a rock), and despite what many in this forum may think, I know my limitations, or at least what I allow them to be at the moment.

Ax-man, no, haven't yet chosen the specific approach. I've climbed the maple up to about 20 feet (without rope), and there look to be a number of good candidates up there, but I haven't refined it yet.
 
EngineerDude said:
Elmore - Vonage commercial? Assume this is TV? I don't watch much and am not familiar. Is this relevant or an attempt at humor?

An attempt at humor.
 
Clearance, the the reason for going at this with rope rather than spurs is that spurs don't allow me to accomplish the second purpose of having equipment for rec climbing.
 
EngineerDude said:
Trinity, can't believe you actually referred to "cajones" (actual spelling is cojones)

i stand corrected... <sigh> no wonder i only passed Spanish in college by giving blood and bringing can goods for the hungry... or maybe i am the list psychic (no, folks, not "psycho") and really knew that was your name but tried to play dumb...

yep, the dumb is the act... maybe.

just in case anyone wants to know about their "cojones", here's a test... but notice the spelling on the link!

http://www.queendom.com/tests/minitests/fx/cajones.html
 
Thanks for the Pics, my assessment is dead aspen / poplar very brittle wood, loose bark when dead, not much holding wood, limbs tend to pop when cut and shatter on impact with the ground. Limb conditions deterioate very quickly so what may be sound this week, is ready to fall next week. Also base rot sets in quickly because of all the water in the trunk, so the bases tend to break off at or just below ground level and fall over without warning. Live this would be a great size as a training tree, but dead it presents a hazard even to a pro. Regarding comments of climbing up 20' in the maple without a rope, this is a big no-no, believe anything over 6' requires tie-in. Not a flame again, just the facts as I see them.
 
EngineerDude said:
Clearance, the the reason for going at this with rope rather than spurs is that spurs don't allow me to accomplish the second purpose of having equipment for rec climbing.

I almost hate to say this, but Clearance is right, you are going to need spurs if your going to do this right. I don't agree with his other statement about not using a rope, I would definately have one at my side, the lanyard is a matter of choice, wire core or rope is up to the individual. Using climbing spurs leads to another thing to master, climbing on them, a dead tree is not a good canadate for this either, it is not as easy as it looks, there is a technique to this just like using a rope and working with a chain saw in a tree.

How is the condition of that tree at the bottom ?? Have you checked it out??

Larry
 
Tree is definitely dead on top. But lower portion of tree still has limbs thick with green leaves (intertwined with maple limbs), and as stated in another post, I've "bounced" on the limbs I'm considering as perches. Also, no loose bark up to the limbs shown in aspen10.jpg. Especially if I use the maple as the high point, anybody got any serious energy for Dadatwins comments being a showstopper?

And yeah, I now know 20 feet without rope wasn't too smart. This was in the spring, before I knew better. Wouldn't do it now.
 
TreeCo, based on what I've read, my guess is root rot. Agreed?

Given the implications, even though I haven't dealt with this sooner, are you at all surprised that now that I've engaged, I've done so aggressively?
 
TreeCo, thanks for the input.

At this point I'm abandoning this thread and a parallel thread on the Buzz.

It'll take a couple of days before I come to a final conclusion as to how to proceed. You state that the communities on these sites are "not really very impressed". Not really sure how to interpret that, but your comment is enough to lead me to the conclusion that this pursuit isn't going to take me where I expected it would. Unrealistic expectations on my part, perhaps.

Thanks to all who have provided productive comments.
 
EngineerDude said:
I've figured this out on a conceptual level, and am confident I can make this work.

This mentality is responsible for the death of many men. Be careful.

love
nick
 
EngineerDude said:
Especially if I use the maple as the high point, anybody got any serious energy for Dadatwins comments being a showstopper?

Showstopper??? That a new one on me, I thought the guy asked for help and I offered my assessment on the tree. I usually charge $20.00 for the same if I had to drive out and do that locally, but he gets it for free and then runs off and hides. Good luck with your your climbing career ED.
 
EngineerDude said:
And yeah, I now know 20 feet without rope wasn't too smart. This was in the spring, before I knew better. Wouldn't do it now.

Imagine the other million details and variables that fall into this category...

I too am an engineer and a new rec climber. (You guys are thinking "Oh, great!") Been climbing 8 months and have done around 50 climbs. Those climbs have taught me that I have barely scratched the surface. Have I done some trimming? Well, yes. (I own 3 saws.) Should I have done? Probably not. Would I block down a big tree? Nope. Would I climb with spurs. Hopefully never, unless I take up a new career.

I certainly would encourage dude to climb and hang out here. What a blast, particularly if you love trees and the outdoors. Right now I am loving my new econoledge hanging over the "big lake".
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngineerDude
I've figured this out on a conceptual level, and am confident I can make this work.



This mentality is responsible for the death of many men. Be careful.

love
nick


For that, nick, it should be read as

I've figured this out on a conceptual level, and am confident YOU can make this work.



Ronald
 
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