Log splitter kinetic or hydraulic??

[RyeThomas]

I posted my own thread about this delima with prices. I couldn't buy a hydro quick cycle unit made by a known manufacturer for near the price of a SS.
I couldn't get a unit with a hydraulic adjustable 4 way wedge without spending even more. Having a hydro with a non adjustable wedge I can tell you it's about useless unless you have the perfect size rounds.
If your talking about making one that's awesome!!! But for most of us making a log splitter is not a reality so you have to pay for a manufactured unit and that's a lot of coin.
I also think some are asking machines to perform outside of there intended realm. If your not going to noodle big crotchety wood, if you need a log lift and handle big rounds all day I don't think a Kinetic was ever intended for that purpose.
You can make a lot of things work but they work a lot better if you know their limitations and work with them.

Jmo, hope to see my splitter some time soon. Waiting sucks.

 

[sirbuildalot]

Just for comparison sake, here is a video showing a hydraulic splitter that isn't 12 grand going through an ugly. Doug's video showed the first ugly taking about 2 and a half minutes. Note the time it takes this hydraulic.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...1D4EFCB857DDAA0665221D4EFCB857DDAA0&FORM=VIRE

 

[sirbuildalot]

And yes 3 seconds is the correct cycle time

 

[muddstopper]

Not to make this a mine is bigger than yours discussion. That 20ton huskey was pretty pitiful, speed and power.

 

[sam-tip]

SS is about 2.4 to 3 seconds. The Wood Mizer does look nice. Just needs the machine to push the wood back into the slot. They currently have the person sliding the wood back into the cutting position. More work. Not sure how I feel about the dual direction. Making two piles.

 

[CaseyForrest]

Seeing guys struggle with the SS on tough crotches in person, like in the video, is what pushed me to the TW that I bought! It just didn't cost much more than a top of the line SS and it's a LOT more splitter, that easily splits everything...

SR

You keep forgetting to factor in the investment of your power supply.

Ill grant you that you have a nice set-up. But your comparisons between your TW and any other splitter in terms of value is not valid. SS owners don't need an aux hydraulic supply to make them go. Factor the cost of your tractor in with the cost of your TW, the cost of maintenance on the tractor, fuel, hyd oil etc and the numbers start to separate a little.

I could have purchased a TW 3pt splitter, but I don't have enough tractor to make it work to its potential. And my tractor cost $24000 new. So lets factor in a used tractor that does have the ability to make the TW work to its fullest... Ill be conservative for my area but probably looking at a min of another 5 grand. JUST to run the splitter.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

WHY do you need to spend so much for a tractor?? I already had the tractor, it's made me back WAAAAAAY more than it's cost of $3,500.00 just in jobs I've done for "others", and is worth more than $3,500.00 today...not to mention it came with a Howard rotavator on it that's worth more than $1,000.00 today.

I see deals on tractors all the time, most guys just figure they have to buy new or near new, and that just isn't so...

Anyway, most folks that do firewood, like to have a tractor around, so it's really no big deal. As for maintenance on my tractor it's an oil change once a year. (5 qts.) Plus that little diesel just slooooowly sips fuel, running at half speed...

AND it's ready to do all kinds of OTHER jobs too, (read MAKE MONEY) unlike other splitter power plants.

SR

 

[sirbuildalot]

That is kind of the point Muddstopper. At this "snack bracket" you aren't getting a TW6 with a hydraulic 6 way wedge and hydraulic log lift. Or anything like it. You're getting a slow 18-20ish second cycle time hydraulic with at best a non adjustable 4 way that would not go through those uglies. Granted you could do better than the Huskee, but I don't think it would be any faster than Doug did his ugly piece in. Then factor in that slow cycle time is on every..... single.....piece, not just uglies.

If I had to buy a hydraulic splitter... and I almost did. I would choose this model from American.

http://www.firstgeartrucks.com/amer...h-woodsplitter-w/4-way-wedge-backer-and-pans/

This dealer has very good prices on Saws as well. This model that is now $5,600 used to be $4,900 when I was looking. Couldn't come up with the 5 grand, so I waited and bought my ss instead. Never regretted that decision. I have since used, ironically, the same model American loaned from a friend and it wasn't any faster than a ss. As far as hydraulics go it was a very nice splitter. My biggest complaint was the amount of small splits coming out of the non adjustable 4 way.

 

[CaseyForrest]

Jmo, hope to see my splitter some time soon. Waiting sucks.

Surprised you don't have it yet. Id make a phone call.

 

[CaseyForrest]

WHY do you need to spend so much for a tractor??

Cost is dependent on functionality and a willingness to accept condition. $5000 isn't an unreasonable number for a tractor with the hydraulic flow or HP to run an independent PTO pump to make the TW use its full productiveness.

I already had the tractor,

That doesn't negate the fact that you still had to purchase it at some point. Not everyone that is buying a splitter has the capacity, funds or need for a tractor with the specifications needed to make your TW run at peak efficiency. The cost of your tractor needs to be included in your comparison to other splitters because without it, your splitter is just a hunk of iron sitting on a block.

it's made me back WAAAAAAY more than it's cost of $3,500.00 just in jobs I've done for "others", and is worth more than $3,500.00 today...not to mention it came with a Howard rotavator on it that's worth more than $1,000.00 today.

Again, your making an apples and oranges comparison. Some folks just want to split wood for their own personal use. Not use it to make money.

BUT, add that $3500 to the cost of your TW and now we have a real world cost comparison. What did your TW cost you?

I see deals on tractors all the time, most guys just figure they have to buy new or near new, and that just isn't so...

I didn't imply such. I simply placed a new value on a tractor that would leave someone dissatisfied with the results running your splitter. Its why I used a $5000 number to purchase a used tractor. But the fact remains, with your style splitter, one needs an aux hydraulic power unit whether its a tractor or stand alone motor, pump and tank. You're comparing your set up to a stand alone splitter.

Anyway, most folks that do firewood, like to have a tractor around, so it's really no big deal.

My tractor would be useless to me if it was running the splitter.

And lets be honest.... even you have a second tractor thats not dedicated to running your splitter. So add that cost in, too. Because just as you alluded to, having a tractor around is handy. Might as well add in the cost of your wagon too, since its such an important part of your splitting process. And the grapple on your second tractor....

As for maintenance on my tractor it's an oil change once a year. (5 qts.) Plus that little diesel just slooooowly sips fuel, running at half speed...

Ill probably change the oil in my SS once a year, around .5 qts. And it just sips fuel, running just over half speed.

AND it's ready to do all kinds of OTHER jobs too, (read MAKE MONEY) unlike other splitter power plants.

Not if its running the splitter. I can have one of my brood running the splitter while my tractor is off doing other productive things.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. You have a sweet set-up that I am envious of. But its not a valid comparison to Harry homeowner such as myself and 90% of the rest of the board. As you have alluded to in your post above, you have not only the capacity, but opportunity to utilize your equipment more than most. So you can capitalize on the investment more than someone like me. It would not be a good investment for someone like me to iron up to a level you have.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Thought you might enjoy these. I was looking at old photos of when I used the log arch. This is a photo of pre log-lift. When raising a family you make do with what you have. I had a good old splitter but not a good way to move wood. Picked up a nice used quad eight years ago when the kids were in college, the arch a few years later. New splitter or... log arch? Saw cut to depth of bar, and one pop with a maul. Not so much work. Like everything else...it gets done one piece at a time. Slowly I acquired the tools I have. Always want more something. There is no perfect splitter under $60,000. The SS comes close enough at $3,300. At times I think of selling the TW as a down payment on a different truck. Always something...

Edit: Kinetic vs hydraulic. It's all about efficiency. For me efficiency is still about handling the firewood before and after the splitting.

 

[muddstopper]

Mine is better than yours because it will do this better than yours will. I think that is the mindset of a few folks. They own what they own, and they like the way it performs so its better than anything else out there. Well they are right, it dont matter if you have a hydr or a kinetic, if it does the job you are looking for, then that is the best type of splitter you can have. There is no doubt in my mind that I can build a hyd splitter that can cycle just as fast as a SS and just blast those ugly crotches apart with a single blow. Its not a matter of whether or not it can be done, I dont need such a machine, so I aint building one. I aint into wrasseling big rounds around on any kind of splitter, so a multisplit wedge will always be in my tool box. A round might start out big, but its one cycle and its into manageble size pieces. Cant do that with a SS or a single split wedge on a hyd splitter either.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The cost of your tractor needs to be included in your comparison to other splitters because without it, your splitter is just a hunk of iron sitting on a block.

OK, I agree, let's add in the ----------------------> TRUE cost of my tractor...

I paid $3,500.00 for my tractor, it came with a Howard rotavator on it... but WAIT, I put 500 hours on that tractor rotavating and MORE than half of those hours was for customers at $40.00 per hour!

SO, 250 hours x $40.00 per hour = well, you do the math!! lol

The way I see it, that tractor has paid ME to own it!! AND anyone could do the same thing I did, I'm still getting calls to do gardens ect...

SR

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I think it is great that a company can build a splitter that customers become passionate about, doesn't matter what company it is, that is a huge accomplishment in itself.

 

[Tenderfoot]

I think it is great that a company can build a splitter that customers become passionate about, doesn't matter what company it is, that is a huge accomplishment in itself.

Ain't that the truth.

Mine is better than yours because it will do this better than yours will. I think that is the mindset of a few folks. They own what they own, and they like the way it performs so its better than anything else out there. Well they are right, it dont matter if you have a hydr or a kinetic, if it does the job you are looking for, then that is the best type of splitter you can have. There is no doubt in my mind that I can build a hyd splitter that can cycle just as fast as a SS and just blast those ugly crotches apart with a single blow. Its not a matter of whether or not it can be done, I dont need such a machine, so I aint building one. I aint into wrasseling big rounds around on any kind of splitter, so a multisplit wedge will always be in my tool box. A round might start out big, but its one cycle and its into manageble size pieces. Cant do that with a SS or a single split wedge on a hyd splitter either.

I agree. Just make something that works well enough.

I also think that from a business perspective up front cost is a major deciding factor. I have a $1200 splitter. With wood around me (split and seasoned) about $250-$320 a cord it paid for itself after 5 cords for my family. Now, after splitting about 120 or 150 cords (hard to keep track) with it I think it has been worth the cash. It burns about a gallon per cord (high, I know but it is what it is). Considering it has only had oil changes (change it every 5 cords, about a half quart, I get 5w30 for $5 a quart), a spark plug and nothing else it has cost me $475 to split 150 cords, or about $3.17 per cord in operating costs. Not bad In my opinion. If I add that plus the purchase price it is $11.20 per cord, give or take. Also really not bad at all. It is not as fast as a SS but it is a lot cheaper. When I wear it out I can upgrade, but for even the small time firewood guys like me, the cheap machine makes sense. You will run out of space to put wood before you run out of time to split it.

 

[muddstopper]

A lot of emphasis is placed on cycle times, it dont matter how fast a machine can cycle if the operator cant keep it fed. When you look at all the videos of factory splitters, the advertisers main goal is to split as much wood in as short of time as possible. How many here think they can keep up that fast pace for very long. Us older folks aint going to be hoisting up larger rounds or even trying to keep up with a splitter day in and day out. Also, just how accurate of measure is a 3sec cycle time if in between cycles you spend another 3 sec repositioning that same piece of wood for another split. I want the most wood with the least amount of effort in a given amount of time. I can sit and pull levers all day long, been doing that operating equipment for 40 years, what I cant do all day long is pickup and wrassel heavy rounds trying to make little sticks out of big ones. When all these young bucks turn into old bucks with bad knees and shoulders and backs, they too will realize it aint all about being fast.

 

[gary courtney]

A lot of emphasis is placed on cycle times, it dont matter how fast a machine can cycle if the operator cant keep it fed. When you look at all the videos of factory splitters, the advertisers main goal is to split as much wood in as short of time as possible. How many here think they can keep up that fast pace for very long. Us older folks aint going to be hoisting up larger rounds or even trying to keep up with a splitter day in and day out. Also, just how accurate of measure is a 3sec cycle time if in between cycles you spend another 3 sec repositioning that same piece of wood for another split. I want the most wood with the least amount of effort in a given amount of time. I can sit and pull levers all day long, been doing that operating equipment for 40 years, what I cant do all day long is pickup and wrassel heavy rounds trying to make little sticks out of big ones. When all these young bucks turn into old bucks with bad knees and shoulders and backs, they too will realize it aint all about being fast.

i spent an extra 1200 and shaved 11 minutes off the time i spent splitting. this is what this thread has turned to.

 

[muddstopper]

i spent an extra 1200 and shaved 11 minutes off the time i spent splitting. this is what this thread has turned to.

I think it leans more to not buying more than you need.

 

[captjack]

I like the SS , seems like a nice machine for the right set up. If I had smaller trees that I could man handle onto the table with easy it would be perfect. In my case I get mostly red oak - not the perfect straight "no knot" kind but the "what ever the tree service takes down kind" If I had to noodle all those pieces so I could pick them up onto the splitter it would take up a lot of my time. Taking into consideration the entire wood process of your individual set up is important. I have a tw5 Timberwolf and usually split with 3 people - one loading the lift - one running machine and one clearing table to elevator. The Timeberwolf has a much slower cycle time than a kinetic splitter but with the 3 people we cant out run it.

 

[muddstopper]

I would love to own a SS just for resplits. With 5 people, I have split a cord in about 15min, but it was all apple wood, nothing over about 12in dia. Some of it we where stacking two pieces at a time on the splitter. My wedge is 24in tall, which makes stacking smaller rounds possible. Those days aint normal, its usually red oak, 20+in dia and a ton of resplitting to make stove wood size splits. I hardly ever resplit until all the rounds have been reduced to 6 pieces. I throw what ever size split I have on the splitter, make one pass and grab another round. A SS would fit in real nice about then.