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Log splitter troubles 1300 PSI

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by staywarm53, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. staywarm53

    staywarm53 ArboristSite Lurker

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    I put a TEE coming out of the pump to the push inlet of cylinder, I attached a good fluid filled 3000 lb gauge. I put a piece of wood in and applied presssure. The tractor starts bogging down and something squealing. Wood doesn't split.The gauge reads about 1300 PSI. I don't know much but I was hoping for 2250 lol..

    I am running a tractor PTO driven splitter 3 to 1 ratio, pump spinning 1620, i think.

    Is this problem the seals in the cylinder? Any idea of approximate cost? This is the first spliitter I have had. Any advice is appreciated.The guy I got it from used it about 10 years. It will split dry wood, but not half green wood.
     
  2. mga

    mga wandering

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    seals are relatively cheap and not hard to replace. if it's 10 years old, doing them would be a good place to start. if the oil is leaking around the piston seals, then that gage won't be showing much pressure...it appears that at 1300 psi the seals are breaking down.
     
  3. olyman

    olyman Tree Freak

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    mga--true--but if it aint producing much pressure--why is something squealing---maybe person before didnt split large stuff---i/e--never pushed it to its limits????????
     
  4. jags

    jags ArboristSite Guru

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    Wait a minute here. You say that at 1300 psi the tractor starts to bog down?? From a PTO??? I am guessing that this tractor is probably over 15 H.P (probably WAAAY over). That just doesn't sound right. Even with a single stage pump you should not be pulling down a PTO at 1300 PSI (unless you are running something wacky like a 50 GPM pump). The squealing would probably be the relief valve or the pump itself (yep, had one do it). Need more info- does not compute.....:bang:

    What size of tractor are we talking??
    What is the bore of the ram??
    Where is the squeal coming from??
    Home built or factory splitter??

    Don't know for sure, but I am suspecting the pump at this time. If this is old school equipment, designed for old school tractor use, 1100-1500 psi was common operating pressures - although not typically for log splitters, its hard to get good tonnage from a ram at 1300 psi.
     
  5. jags

    jags ArboristSite Guru

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    I caught that part, but it doesn't make sense. The first log splitter I built, years ago had a single stage pump using a 8hp briggs for power. I could create approx 2200 psi before the pump/engine would quit. It did not have a relief valve on it (hey, I was 16, what can I say) and it would either squeal the pump or kill the motor. I am assuming that the pto output of this tractor is more than 8 hp even when you take into consideration the 3:1 gear ratio (8hp output would take 24 hp input) That would be the approx size of a case vac or a ford 8n. So I am just trying to get a feel for what he is working with. My most important question was probably "is it home built or factory." The reason behind this is: alot of old farm hydraulics worked at much lower pump pressure as well as the valves typically had a low relief pressure setting (1100 to 1500 psi was common) Either one of these components could cause this problem if they were not designed for typical 2250-2500 (or above)psi applications.:cheers:
     
  6. staywarm53

    staywarm53 ArboristSite Lurker

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    The tractor is a Ford 2000, thats about 25 HP ? Yes when I hold the pressure all the way the tractor will start bogging down when it can't split the wood. It will force the wedge in about 1/4 in and cant do any more.Its a new gauge so I assume its accurate..the splitter was homebuilt by a farmer I think. It's a 4.5 in cylinder witha 2inch rod.
    Theres nothing leaking on the outside. I would guess that its a single stage pump.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2006
  7. mga

    mga wandering

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    a 4.5 cylinder with a 2" rod should do the trick..unless, of course, the rod piston seals are leaking. you can't see them leaking because they are inside at the end of the rod. meaning they are leaking from the "push" side into the "pull" side of the cylinder.

    however, for a 25hp engine to bog down means something else isn't right.

    right or wrong? now i'm guessing :)

    my 18hp hardly ever uses the govenor unless i'm splitting heavy knots...other than that the RPM's remain steady. then again, i'm using a 2 stage pump.....
     
  8. jags

    jags ArboristSite Guru

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    well, that pretty much would indicate that you have some part, pump or relief valve (keep in mind, some relief valves are located in the control valve) that is from a low pressure hydraulic system. Or maybe both. I believe that you were (from an earlier post) thinking about putting a new pump and an engine on this thing, this may be your calling ;). A nice 2 stage 16gmp pump and an 8-12 hp engine, with a detent valve would probably shine that baby right up. :rock: But I digress.
    This is no way means that you can't fix what you have, but a 3:1 PTO pump is getting pretty expensive, relief valves aren't so bad (you can get a control valve, with detent and relief from many websites). Oh, and MGA, keep in mind the 3:1 step up, it cuts his 25HP tractor to one third of that (8hp). That hooked up to a single stage pump could bring it to its knees.
     
  9. BlueRidgeMark

    BlueRidgeMark Addicted to ArboristSite

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    At 1300 PSI, that's a smidgen over 10 tons of ram pressure.
     
  10. mga

    mga wandering

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    yep...thanks for that. i mis-read the 3:1 part. my bad.
     
  11. mga

    mga wandering

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    you're right, mark....and maybe why it's bogging down and quitting on him. but, he did say the previous owner used it for over 10 years splitting wood.

    maybe it's just time to upgrade things a bit
     
  12. BlueRidgeMark

    BlueRidgeMark Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Mebbe the previous owner only split small stuff?

    I dunno!
     
  13. staywarm53

    staywarm53 ArboristSite Lurker

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    Lots of possibilities :) I think the first thing I'm going to do is make a small adjustment to the relief valve and see what happens :) With the psi gauge there is minimal chance of explosions lol.
    It looks like 3 pieces make up the adjustment.
    The first piece out of the valve looks like a hex nut with a 3/4 rod, the 2nd piece is just a hex nut, the 3rd and final piece is a hex nut with a dome.
    I guess I take of the dome cap and see whats under :dizzy:
     
  14. staywarm53

    staywarm53 ArboristSite Lurker

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    Bogging down

    If the seals are leaking, should the tractor bog down when it can't split?
     
  15. ray benson

    ray benson Tree Freak

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    Any name or numbers on the pump? Someone could track down the specs.
     
  16. staywarm53

    staywarm53 ArboristSite Lurker

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    I'll take a wire brush tommorrow and see if I can see any numbers.
     
  17. mga

    mga wandering

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    while you're at it, see what type/brand the control valve is also...before you adjust it.
     
  18. dtw902

    dtw902 ArboristSite Operative

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    You might clarify where you actually have the gauge.
    Is it between the pump discharge and the valve, or
    between the valve and the cylinder inlet?
    Check and see what the pressure reads between the
    pump and valve, with the valve in the neutral position.
    If it is low there then try adjusting the relief valve,
    usually in the valve body.
    If this raises the pressure, then adjust it up to 2500#s
    or close and try splitting again.
    If this makes no change I would suspect a prob with
    the pump. Anyway good luck, you'll find the prob it just
    takes a little deduction and process of elimination.
     
  19. turnkey4099

    turnkey4099 Tree Freak

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    I am going to come off looking stupider than usual here. I always thought that with the valve in the neutral positon it is just an open loop, pump-valve-reservoir, i.e., no pressure build up other than through plumbing friction. No?

    Of course I am the one whose new homebuilt splitter would just barely creep, almost no movement at all. Real puzzle as ram and pump were new and the valve was off a working piece of equipment. Many head scratchings until I discovered that the fittings I "borrowed' were restricter ones with not much more than a pinhole.


    Harry K
     
  20. dtw902

    dtw902 ArboristSite Operative

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    It is getting late Harry but you are correct if he has a open center valve.
    I should have clarified, if he has a open center valve he will need to plug the valve outlet and open valve (like you would to extend the cylinder) and then
    check your pressures. Open center is what he should have on a splitter
    hopefully detent or double detent. If it is a closed center then my earlier post
    will work for checking the pump and relief valve.

    Hopefully I did'nt make this more confusing, getting late and I should have
    given my first post more thought. Thanks for catching that Harry.
    Here is a link I posted this in another thread it has alot of info.
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic.htm
     

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