LOL...anyone know of an underwater chainsaw???

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

teamtree

ArboristSite Guru
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Messages
767
Reaction score
71
Location
Indiana
A guy called me today and asked if I could cut off some stumps that are 2' under water.....I gave him a long pause and did not know what to say.

I asked a series of questions but ultimately told him that he has a problem and any problem can be solved, it is just a matter of how much you are willing to pay.

I thought I would post on here because I bet someone has dealt with this issue before.

BTW....the lake was drained for 2 years to fix the dam......and it is now full of water and covered with ice....lol
 
^^^^^^+1, believe it or not there is such a thing. I have been looking at a Kubota RTV; one of the accessories is a hydraulic chainsaw you can hook up to the hydraulic pump. The fact they make one for a Kubota blew me away. They actually make 2: one for concrete, one for wood. Bailey's has hydraulic chainsaws, just be prepared to bring the bank. Keep us posted.
 
Hydraulic or air does sound like a solution.
An old school manual saw would do it to.
Or, a short piece of dynamite and a long fuse.
 
^^^^^^+1, believe it or not there is such a thing. I have been looking at a Kubota RTV; one of the accessories is a hydraulic chainsaw you can hook up to the hydraulic pump. The fact they make one for a Kubota blew me away. They actually make 2: one for concrete, one for wood. Bailey's has hydraulic chainsaws, just be prepared to bring the bank. Keep us posted.
Just thinking. Maybe an electric chainsaw could be converted and powered by a Trolling motor engine.
In FRESH water some electric motors will run for a short time under water. Years ago hobby enthusiast would run small 12 volt DC motors under water for a while to seat the carbon brushes. I member not very long at a time. The water would be dark from carbon wear. A low voltage battery powered saw may work if it were properly sealed. AC voltage is different and dangerous. Back in the day some of my distant relatives used a hand crank AC, (I think) generator to catch catfish. It would stun the fish. Highly illegal. Dynamite was used too until some went to prison. That was a rough bunch of guys. All long dead.
 
Just thinking. Maybe an electric chainsaw could be converted and powered by a Trolling motor engine.
In FRESH water some electric motors will run for a short time under water. Years ago hobby enthusiast would run small 12 volt DC motors under water for a while to seat the carbon brushes. I member not very long at a time. The water would be dark from carbon wear. A low voltage battery powered saw may work if it were properly sealed. AC voltage is different and dangerous. Back in the day some of my distant relatives used a hand crank AC, (I think) generator to catch catfish. It would stun the fish. Highly illegal. Dynamite was used too until some went to prison. That was a rough bunch of guys. All long dead.
It only takes 1/10th of 1 amp 12vdc to kill. All voltage can be dangerous jfyi.
 
It only takes 1/10th of 1 amp 12vdc to kill. All voltage can be dangerous jfyi.[/weQUOTE]


My degree is in Electrical. Yes, Amps can kill. P = I X E. P is what we call Watts.
I is what we know as Amps.
E. Is what we call applied Volts or Electromotive force.
Not just anyone should mess with Electricity.
Even a high capacity (cold cranking amps) 12 volt battery can fry you. But under normal conditions I've placed a hand on each post and not been harmed.
Salt water carries current and some so called fresh water might if certain minerals are present.
Trolling motors ( the 12 volt ones ) are normally sealed.
I've not experimented with brush less 12 volt DC motors in water.

However, I must Agree with you and place a warning.

Anyone not FULLY QUALIFIED and Schooled SHOULD NOT RUN ELECTRIC DEVICES IN WATER OR OTHER DAMP PLACES.

Since I am schooled, even to the point that I built my own welding machine I would feel comfortable experimenting with the idea but YOU ARE CORRRCT. For MOST people any electricity around water, even earth ground, cement, or any place not specifically designed for electrical devices should be avoided.

I'm highly unconventional.
When I run my Petrol Chainsaw cutting dirty wood I actually carry a 5 gallon bucket full of water to wash the chain.
I dip the bar tip in the water, rev the engine up a few seconds. No soap, just fresh water. The oil on the chain stays put, dirt and chips don't.
 
Ah yes well then I'm certain you will agree then on lower voltages up to 12.5 kv its not the amps or the volts that kill its the lack of resistance and minimum separation to energized conductor. I have no degree just 30 years of working around it. In the mid to early 80s I pulled more burning overhanging limbs than I like to remember. I experienced several indirect contacts in those learning years but I learned to stay out of the path of least resistance which saved my Hyde on a few occasions. These indirect contacts were mostly barely enough to be felt and usually caused by the wind but one instance was a bit scary. On the 500 kv and above I worked later in my career no limb or body part could get within 15 feet after being qualified to work on it. It was interesting stuff to say the least. Most trims on it were set a rope and fall the whole tree.
 
Similar to what your saying I did hypot tests on bucket trucks and their liners in 2003 it was multi faceted testing at 100 kv and the basket liners are submerged in a tank of water then we took a metal rod with a base that was placed into the liner with the hot lead attached. The tank trailer is metal and we grounded it and finally the test lead also terminated to the tank all done of course with tested rubber gloves and leather protection "linemans gloves" then it is energized and current leakage tested in micro-amps certifies the liner. Then the boom is tested first upper then lower if the lower boom had a fiberglass insert. After energize test is over you must slap the hot to the truck or tank to eliminate possible static charge. I believe then the limits were 5 micro amps leakage in 100 kv . I could still do the testing but would need to have the limit charts as my memory is fuzzy there! Many folks out there running bucket trucks don't know dirt build up inside the boom could cause them trouble or worse wasp nests bird nests that can happen over a weekend! I power washed mine regular and shined a light down it every week with careful attention in the fiberglass jumper area of lower boom
.
 
Ah yes well then I'm certain you will agree then on lower voltages up to 12.5 kv its not the amps or the volts that kill its the lack of resistance and minimum separation to energized conductor. I have no degree just 30 years of working around it. In the mid to early 80s I pulled more burning overhanging limbs than I like to remember. I experienced several indirect contacts in those learning years but I learned to stay out of the path of least resistance which saved my Hyde on a few occasions. These indirect contacts were mostly barely enough to be felt and usually caused by the wind but one instance was a bit scary. On the 500 kv and above I worked later in my career no limb or body part could get within 15 feet after being qualified to work on it. It was interesting stuff to say the least. Most trims on it were set a rope and fall the whole tree.
Exactly
Ah yes well then I'm certain you will agree then on lower voltages up to 12.5 kv its not the amps or the volts that kill its the lack of resistance and minimum separation to energized conductor. I have no degree just 30 years of working around it. In the mid to early 80s I pulled more burning overhanging limbs than I like to remember. I experienced several indirect contacts in those learning years but I learned to stay out of the path of least resistance which saved my Hyde on a few occasions. These indirect contacts were mostly barely enough to be felt and usually caused by the wind but one instance was a bit scary. On the 500 kv and above I worked later in my career no limb or body part could get within 15 feet after being qualified to work on it. It was interesting stuff to say the least. Most trims on it were set a rope and fall the whole tree.

Exactly my point. I suggested 12 Volts DC..
But on second thought this conversation should not have happened.
My electric fence has High voltage but it doesn't kill just knock the heck out of a horse. High volts low amps. Electrical engineering is actually full of variables that fail a lot of students.
Best thing is never ever experiment with Electricity.
My two brothers (who are well educated in Electronics) and I hold long conversations about theories.
Let me present a question.
Say you have a 100 foot long extension cord. Your air compressor starts , builds up 100 psi and the pressure switch stops the electric motor as you expected. You use air and hear your compressor attempting to start but it won't. Bleed some more air off and she starts, builds up cuts off and won't restart. We, well most of us realize the extension cord is to long and under load (restart) we have a voltage drop. We get our 50 foot 3/12 extension cord out and realize we now need 10 more feet of cord but we don't have any more #12 wire and add a section of #14 instead. The air compressor works properly.
Now there are several questions. # 1, will the short section of #14 wire heat up with use?
#2, Will both the #12 and the #14 wire heat up with use ?
#3, Which end should we add the lighter wire to. At the supply or on the end between the #12 wire and the load?
Many smart men would say , well current is equal in a closed loop, (a circuit most times) so it doesn't matter.
That's the basic correct answer, but, my OPINION differs.
Here is why. My house is wired with #12 wire. Therefore it makes sense to me when #12 extension cord is plugged into the house supply I'm simply extending the house wiring THEN adding my lighter extension cord. First, I'd simply not do that but hypothetically it's a good question.
However, there are times when my brothers agree then choose to say they need more time to consider.
I'm not happy with most house wiring. Basic house wiring provides 20 amp breakers. There are exceptions where a 30 amp breaker is permitted. But lets go with the common set up.
What doesn't make sense to me is MOST light switches and wall plugs are rated for 15 amps and even though you can buy a #10 extension cord seldom are the end plugs rated for 30 amps. There is a cure but it's not something I want to get into. In my case I rewound the secondary portion of a transformer and made a step up transformer. I'm getting 125 Volts AC RMS at the compressor. Just enough to compensate for my losses. Now, I guess it's better to get back to Chainsaws. Loving my new Echo 490. Exact weight ( my bathroom scales as the old 026 Sthil and cuts as well. Weight with bar , chain, and oil. The Sthil has 18 inch bar, Echo 20. Good day.
 
Exactly


Exactly my point. I suggested 12 Volts DC..
But on second thought this conversation should not have happened.
My electric fence has High voltage but it doesn't kill just knock the heck out of a horse. High volts low amps. Electrical engineering is actually full of variables that fail a lot of students.
Best thing is never ever experiment with Electricity.
My two brothers (who are well educated in Electronics) and I hold long conversations about theories.
Let me present a question.
Say you have a 100 foot long extension cord. Your air compressor starts , builds up 100 psi and the pressure switch stops the electric motor as you expected. You use air and hear your compressor attempting to start but it won't. Bleed some more air off and she starts, builds up cuts off and won't restart. We, well most of us realize the extension cord is to long and under load (restart) we have a voltage drop. We get our 50 foot 3/12 extension cord out and realize we now need 10 more feet of cord but we don't have any more #12 wire and add a section of #14 instead. The air compressor works properly.
Now there are several questions. # 1, will the short section of #14 wire heat up with use?
#2, Will both the #12 and the #14 wire heat up with use ?
#3, Which end should we add the lighter wire to. At the supply or on the end between the #12 wire and the load?
Many smart men would say , well current is equal in a closed loop, (a circuit most times) so it doesn't matter.
That's the basic correct answer, but, my OPINION differs.
Here is why. My house is wired with #12 wire. Therefore it makes sense to me when #12 extension cord is plugged into the house supply I'm simply extending the house wiring THEN adding my lighter extension cord. First, I'd simply not do that but hypothetically it's a good question.
However, there are times when my brothers agree then choose to say they need more time to consider.
I'm not happy with most house wiring. Basic house wiring provides 20 amp breakers. There are exceptions where a 30 amp breaker is permitted. But lets go with the common set up.
What doesn't make sense to me is MOST light switches and wall plugs are rated for 15 amps and even though you can buy a #10 extension cord seldom are the end plugs rated for 30 amps. There is a cure but it's not something I want to get into. In my case I rewound the secondary portion of a transformer and made a step up transformer. I'm getting 125 Volts AC RMS at the compressor. Just enough to compensate for my losses. Now, I guess it's better to get back to Chainsaws. Loving my new Echo 490. Exact weight ( my bathroom scales as the old 026 Sthil and cuts as well. Weight with bar , chain, and oil. The Sthil has 18 inch bar, Echo 20. Good day.
Yup I find that in particular interesting as my compressor has that issue lol . So I get the step up transformer as we had 115 v going in to the transformer we used on tests and 100kv out bound. I understand as its wound into coil it increases voltage
Exactly


Exactly my point. I suggested 12 Volts DC..
But on second thought this conversation should not have happened.
My electric fence has High voltage but it doesn't kill just knock the heck out of a horse. High volts low amps. Electrical engineering is actually full of variables that fail a lot of students.
Best thing is never ever experiment with Electricity.
My two brothers (who are well educated in Electronics) and I hold long conversations about theories.
Let me present a question.
Say you have a 100 foot long extension cord. Your air compressor starts , builds up 100 psi and the pressure switch stops the electric motor as you expected. You use air and hear your compressor attempting to start but it won't. Bleed some more air off and she starts, builds up cuts off and won't restart. We, well most of us realize the extension cord is to long and under load (restart) we have a voltage drop. We get our 50 foot 3/12 extension cord out and realize we now need 10 more feet of cord but we don't have any more #12 wire and add a section of #14 instead. The air compressor works properly.
Now there are several questions. # 1, will the short section of #14 wire heat up with use?
#2, Will both the #12 and the #14 wire heat up with use ?
#3, Which end should we add the lighter wire to. At the supply or on the end between the #12 wire and the load?
Many smart men would say , well current is equal in a closed loop, (a circuit most times) so it doesn't matter.
That's the basic correct answer, but, my OPINION differs.
Here is why. My house is wired with #12 wire. Therefore it makes sense to me when #12 extension cord is plugged into the house supply I'm simply extending the house wiring THEN adding my lighter extension cord. First, I'd simply not do that but hypothetically it's a good question.
However, there are times when my brothers agree then choose to say they need more time to consider.
I'm not happy with most house wiring. Basic house wiring provides 20 amp breakers. There are exceptions where a 30 amp breaker is permitted. But lets go with the common set up.
What doesn't make sense to me is MOST light switches and wall plugs are rated for 15 amps and even though you can buy a #10 extension cord seldom are the end plugs rated for 30 amps. There is a cure but it's not something I want to get into. In my case I rewound the secondary portion of a transformer and made a step up transformer. I'm getting 125 Volts AC RMS at the compressor. Just enough to compensate for my losses. Now, I guess it's better to get back to Chainsaws. Loving my new Echo 490. Exact weight ( my bathroom scales as the old 026 Sthil and cuts as well. Weight with bar , chain, and oil. The Sthil has 18 inch bar, Echo 20. Good day.
Dern compressor does that lol I was thinking I would just run 240 out then wire it 115 v 2 circuits sorta but wow wire is expensive lol.
 
Yup I find that in particular interesting as my compressor has that issue lol . So I get the step up transformer as we had 115 v going in to the transformer we used on tests and 100kv out bound. I understand as its wound into coil it increases voltage

Dern compressor does that lol I was thinking I would just run 240 out then wire it 115 v 2 circuits sorta but wow wire is expensive lol.

Well the situation with running 240/220 out to the Compressor location is a single phase 110/120 motor Could use only one side of your 220/240 (same dog different name).
To keep from muddying the water let me clarify that we are talking AC voltage values.
Think of a bicycle crank. One peddle goes TDC when the other peddle is BDC. Now if each peddle has a value of 120 ACV RMS you could say BOTH peddles = 240 Volts RMS. But. They are out of phase. So as far as I know hooking them together would be a bad idea. Touching the Red and Black wires together should blow fire somewhere. However to get 120 volts off each wire separately works. Hook one ,Say red and white on one breaker and say black and white on a different bracket and run shop fan on a separate breaker than another tool. This is theory and I'm not wanting to be liable for damages so don't do it.
I will tell you this. My generator has 220 AC available. I run two 120ac circuits of it and split the load between my AC unit, fridge and hot plate. There is a box painted orange in my living room and one in my bedroom. Those are all 120 ac but they are fed by 240/220 AC off my generator otherwise I'd be using one side of the alternator because its wired for 240.
Another side note. Totally different subject. I study a lot of subjects. At this time I'm learning Spanish. Studying at night. Fun. I already speak American Sign and taught all three of my girls. At 70 my brain is good but my memory ain't what it used to be. Have a great day.
 
Yes the electric saw concept works well according to some one nutty enough to pull the trigger. I am nutty but not wanting to pull the electric trigger. I have heard of several people who modded a battery powered saw and it got the job done should be much safer than grabbing a 110 volt line. Plenty of silicone and some creativity should get some logs cut. Salt water has much less resistance than pure clean water and yes it tingles quite a bit. Thanks
 
There used to be an air operated one festering in the dark depths at the back of the workshop Don't know if it's still there will have to look IIRC it was APco brand
 

Latest posts

Back
Top