long term stihl RDR carbide chain review

[imagineero]

Great work good reports imagineero as you know I used RD carbide on root n stumps for about 6 years now and have a pretty good feel on when and where it best suits.

I had a memory tucked away somewhere that you were using carbide chain, could you throw some comments in on where it works best vs where it doesnt?

Hard nose bar needed
Yup the chain flogs out and you run out of adjustment soon so a link removal required over the chain life span.

I figured hard nose was the way to go. Will have to order a bar because I dont have any hard nose in 20". Do the roller nose just seize up eventually, or do they get flogged out in the rails under the nose like my one has after only about an hours use?

I see a reasonable market for utility company's needing your skills when they come up against roots stumps in tight or tree protection tasks.
I run on MS 310 18 inch hard nose bar it does whats needed. Reckon I get great $ value per chain loop way better than axe sweat and wrecking my back.

Great comments! Are you getting utility work with yours? I was surprised to see you running it on such a small saw, my 660 wont push the RDR but I'm thinking it's all about the cutter geometry and extra safety bumpers which the RD chain doesnt have. Even an 044 should be more than enough saw to drive this chain, they are standard issue on a 460 after all.

I was going to ask you way back when you originally posted those root cutting pics; did they remove the tree? If not, did you get a liability waiver for cutting out such a major root on a public footpath/road?

Shaun

 

[zogger]

slick

Oh forgot to mention I got me one of these some months back, very handy tool for stubborn roots n splitin stumps.

The Slammer - Kiwi Super Tool. Made in New Zealand

Was about $250 per unit landed in OZ as I got 2 with same purchase the other helps tree planting chaps who are very happy with it in hard clays etc.

That's really cool,nice product vid as well.

 

[derwoodii]

I had a memory tucked away somewhere that you were using carbide chain, could you throw some comments in on where it works best vs where it doesnt?

Best on light loam sands n clays small rock pebbles are no great issue its the large road ballast or chunks of concrete that harms your edge. Interesting different tree species roots respond to RD saw chain in many ways I'm getting to know what easy and whats mean.

I figured hard nose was the way to go. Will have to order a bar because I don't have any hard nose in 20". Do the roller nose just seize up eventually, or do they get flogged out in the rails under the nose like my one has after only about an hours use?

Twas in 1990 I first used tungsten chain as a demo test and very impressed but then was $300 bucks a small loop & the trial ended when I found I could not get resharpened and it chewed my roller nose bar very fast. I re birthed the idea 6 - 7 years back after I found a saw sharpen service for tungsten thats cheap and works I've always used hard nose set up as seems obvious weak point.

Great comments! Are you getting utility work with yours? I was surprised to see you running it on such a small saw, my 660 wont push the RDR but I'm thinking it's all about the cutter geometry and extra safety bumpers which the RD chain doesnt have. Even an 044 should be more than enough saw to drive this chain, they are standard issue on a 460 after all.

Started with a 029 the 310 justs right now I run chain a wee loose try it. I get weekly LG tree roots vs kerb road services and a few utility's now with help save us calls.

I was going to ask you way back when you originally posted those root cutting pics; did they remove the tree? If not, did you get a liability waiver for cutting out such a major root on a public footpath/road?

The debate upon the ethics & ethicacy of cutting tree roots I wrestle with almost daiiy, more often I am comfortable with mein kampf's outcome. Only rarely I say no, that tree stays or goes but I will not cut them roots. As I am more often the decision maker I don't need a waiver or permit to cut tree roots. Rightly wrongly I hypocritically ignore AS4970 Protection Of trees On Development Sites when it suits me. But use it to defend a tree which is worthy and up against poor infrastructure options and dumb ass civil engineers.

 

[imagineero]

Over the holidays I ended up taking the chain down to 75/20/0 compared to the original 85/15/0. I also lowered the rakers quite a bit. I measured the original raker height and what I lowered them to but the numbers are out in the shed so I'll post them up on the next post. I left the big safety bumpers on for the time being but I'm thinking I'll remove them some time in the next month or so. Would be a lot of work with a dremel so I'll have to think on it a bit!

I'm doing a couple cocos palms tomorrow, one is in a raised garden bed that was lowered to ground level so it has about a foot of exposed roots. I couldnt do the stumps because there's no access for the grinder so I said I would take the exposed roots to ground level. Will be a good test for the new cutter geometry, I'm hoping it will cross cut now.

Shaun

 

[olyman]

Over the holidays I ended up taking the chain down to 75/20/0 compared to the original 85/15/0. I also lowered the rakers quite a bit. I measured the original raker height and what I lowered them to but the numbers are out in the shed so I'll post them up on the next post. I left the big safety bumpers on for the time being but I'm thinking I'll remove them some time in the next month or so. Would be a lot of work with a dremel so I'll have to think on it a bit!

I'm doing a couple cocos palms tomorrow, one is in a raised garden bed that was lowered to ground level so it has about a foot of exposed roots. I couldnt do the stumps because there's no access for the grinder so I said I would take the exposed roots to ground level. Will be a good test for the new cutter geometry, I'm hoping it will cross cut now.

Shaun

reading about the chain stretch.. when you get a new chain,,throw it in a container,,that has bar oil in it.. presoaking the rivets........and the rest of the chain..and set the oiler as high as it will go...so you have to fill the oiler more often?...it the chain stretches less,,well..i would imagine,,the dirt enviro,,is part of the problem..

 

[David (saltas)]

I know the numbers are wrong ....I cant remember the no of 3/8 links on a 20" bar

do you think the chassis links are stretching or
are the 74 link by 2 holes 148 holes now not perfectly circular and are a bit elliptical (0.1mm longer than high) x 148 is a 14.8 mm of stretch and that = 14.8/2 of adjustment = 7.4mm

but put spread those cutters over two chassis to make a skip tooth and 74/2= 37 cutters/2chains = 18.5 18 cutters x 2holes x 0.1mm wear = 3.6mm of stretch or 1.8 mm of adjustment

Similarly the pins would be also worn and be worn more at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock than at 6 and 12 o'clock

I know making the two skip tooth's is a lot a work but you reduce the "stretch" to a 1/4 of the adjustment and have two chains so you are likely to increase the usable life to 8 times longer.

Depending on the actual cutter wear you might be able to repeat it.

If it was me I would wait until i was out of adjustment and make one skip tooth out of the chain and keep the rest of the cutters for latter.

Re the lots of work with a dremmel to remove the safety bumpers a 5 inch angle grinder with a razor blade cut of wheel will give you a big head start, with the dremmel to do the tidy up.

It would be even less work if you ever do make a skip tooth to use a chassis with out the bumper links to cut of

I know I'm sounding link a broken record, but I just got one of those feelings you might at least make an enquiry into the cost of a breaker and spinner, and the cost of rolls of Carlton chain

 

[imagineero]

Took it to the job today and everything went well, the customer was watching everything so I felt a bit hesitant to shoot a vid about it. Will try to do another this week on a different job.

The chain did actually cross cut with the new settings, not very well but a lot better than before. Still feels like it needs the rakers lowered a little more. Taking the safety bumper off is looking like a better option all the time. Will get some pics/vids later in the week. I wish I'd taken a vid of how it (didn't) cross cut out of the box for comparison.

Shaun

 

[l3lue]

Carbide Chains

After searching the net I found very little information available on stihls RDR (rapid duro rescue) carbide chain, part number 3944 000 0072. There are a few reviews out there on the standard RD carbide chain, but a few anecdotal posts about the RDR being 10x better thn RD got me wondering. It sure is pricey, list price in Aus is $580, I think list in the states is around $350. I picked mine up for $480, and I think you can get then stateside for around $300 if you look around. It's a lot of money to put down for a single loop of chain so I thought it was worthwhile posting a long term review of this chain for others. I intend to post to this thread throughout the life of the chain.

First, a little background on myself. I run a full time tree business and try to stay as far as I can away from stumps. I really don't enjoy doing them. I ended up buying a grinder this year just because you need to do the stumps to win the tree work and I havent had much luck with sub contracting my stumps out. The guys who have done it have been very hit and miss, cant tie them down for a quote, sometimes dont clean up, damage pipes and wont repair them etc. This ends up hurting my reputation and costing me money. So I bought the grinder and figure I dont mind doing stumps at cost, because trees are where I earn my dollars. I still sub out my larger stumps.

2 or 3 times I year I get a tree with a stump so awful it sends shivers down my spine. You can read about one such episode here;

http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/168818.htm

There are a couple of pics in that link but you have to click on the links as I didnt know how to embed pics at the time. I've tried most of the tricks that others have tried, plus a few more. Stump grinders, high pressure petrol powered water blasters, axes, sawzalls, circular saws, shovels and picks, blowers, etc etc. It's hard to get hold of dynamite in aus. I've destroyed a hired stump grinder once, and gone through a whole lot of teeth. Did I mention I hate stump removal? It's a filthy thankless task, with unpleasant surprises at every turn. What I also do is save up my old chains for stumping. Usually when they get down to their very last sharpen I throw them in my stumping bucket. They get one go on a stump and then go in the bin. Changing out 10 or 15 chains in a day sure gets dull, and sometimes you do run out of stumping chains and have to use new ones. I was going to give the RD chain a go but kept reading reports of it not being that great, and the cutters snapping off. Then along came RDR.

This chain comes as the standard on the 460R saw pictured below.

I'm not that familiar with the innards of this saw, the adjustable sleeve is pretty obvious, there's extra filtration I think, a screen at the front, and claims of better torque at mid revs. It has a bigger pull start handle, ¾ wrap handle and a scrench holder. The RDR chain as far as I know comes only as a 20” pre-made length in 3/8” .063 gauge. There was no information available on them in aus as nobody had ordered one before, so there may be other options available. I plonked down my hard earned and played the waiting game.

Here's a promo vid of the 460R saw and RDR chain. It doesnt really show a lot of detail

[video=youtube;hbfecKtZHR4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbfecKtZHR4[/video]

More to come soon

Shaun

Hi Shaun I seen this thread on RDR chain so I thought I would just throw this out here , There are other companys that make ( carbide chains ) And a wider selection of uses! One my be just what your looking for ?

Here are the links to a couple of Them :

Carbide Chainsaw Chain -- Longest lasting carbide chainsaw chain! Rapco Industries

Carbide Chainsaw Chains

And Rapco says they have a chain made just for stump removal !

Here is what they say : Whether you are dealing with extreme cutting conditions such as fire department roof ventilation, or lighter duty applications such as firewood cutting and stump removal, Rapco has chain designed specifically for your needs. Available in nearly all standard pitches and gauges, Rapco's carbide chain fits most chainsaws and can be customized to your unique requirements.


I hope this is of use to you and many others . Blue

 

[imagineero]

Hi Shaun I seen this thread on RDR chain so I thought I would just throw this out here , There are other companys that make ( carbide chains ) And a wider selection of uses! One my be just what your looking for ?

Here are the links to a couple of Them :

Carbide Chainsaw Chain -- Longest lasting carbide chainsaw chain! Rapco Industries

Carbide Chainsaw Chains

And Rapco says they have a chain made just for stump removal !

Here is what they say : Whether you are dealing with extreme cutting conditions such as fire department roof ventilation, or lighter duty applications such as firewood cutting and stump removal, Rapco has chain designed specifically for your needs. Available in nearly all standard pitches and gauges, Rapco's carbide chain fits most chainsaws and can be customized to your unique requirements.


I hope this is of use to you and many others . Blue

Hi Blue,
Thanks for the links. I did talk to a few other chain suppliers including the australian distributor for rapco. They are priced similar to the stihl RD chain in aus, and after talking to the rep I got the impression that they are at a similar performance level to RD. They stressed that the chain is not to be used around rocks or other hard materials and that cutters do come loose. Maybe they were just trying to reduce future disappointment but it sounded like they had received some complaints about the chain from customers.

I havent had a chance to use mine again yet. Business has been pretty good with the start of the new year but just normal tree work. I will continue to document and photograph the chain and how it performs over its life at each use but the next use may be a month or so.

Shaun

 

[StihlKiwi]

Did this chain hold up to use in the end?

 

[imagineero]

I haven't got anything to add at the moment, haven't used it since the last time which I already posted on. I'll add another update to this thread every time I use it, but I'm not expecting that to be very often. I should start carrying it with me more often I guess, I have had a couple situations where it would have been helpful but it was back at the shop so I just sacrificed a chain.

Shaun

 

[derwoodii]

my saw still going strong and I do terrible stuff with it n the RDR chain and sadly some bad juju to trees its either they git a root hack or go all together so not always easy choice this is one of last week efforts

ahh flip what is it with hotmail it shrinks ma pictures like a cold dip does to ma,,,, anyhoo put on yer magnify glass and peer while i' try n git thee larger file...

 

[derwoodii]

take 2 some bits here I could just lift by hand about 300mm plus dia as thats a 18 inch bar on Stihl 310,,, go on do that with an axe see how ye feel

 

[imagineero]

I thought you were using the RD from memory, not the RDR? How do you sharpen it?

Shaun

 

[derwoodii]

I thought you were using the RD from memory, not the RDR? How do you sharpen it?

Shaun

yes correct RD profile not the RDR rescue as its not quite needed on just dirty ol roots. I still need to get this sharpened by Saw chap with diamond wheel this costs about $22 bucks for a 18 bar inch loop. After its never as good as new but works ok till I kill it again, more often during the life of a chain I need to remove a link or so as it flogs out beyond bar adjust thread. Its great stuff but allows me to do harm to tree roots way to easy.

 

[zogger]

take 2 some bits here I could just lift by hand about 300mm plus dia as thats a 18 inch bar on Stihl 310,,, go on do that with an axe see how ye feel

Never run one, but...I wonder if a rented stump grinder would work better/easier/cheaper for cutting out tree root sections like that. Or a small trencher? Those I have run, they can cut some decent stuff if you are careul and watch your bite.

Anyway, with just a chainsaw, when I have done nasty dirty roots like that, I first cleaned just the area to be cut, axed the bark off, used a small garden hand shovel to get the dirt out around it, then swiped the root clean, then made the cut.