Looking to get into Fire Contracting in NorCal

[JRoland]

I’m looking to get into fire this summer- I have a small tree service and normally work for Caltrans but have some free time this summer and would like to go.
I just got my vendor card ( Interagency Emergency Equipment Operator Card) and am looking to go.
I’d prefer as a faller, but dont carry all the required insurance and don’t want to take out that much policy without checking it out first this summer.
I‘m thinking if there’s a vendor that needs an extra hand- I’d consider being a swamper as well or even driving a water tender ( I have an unrestricted Class A with Tank endorsement)
I‘m mainly looking to make some connections so I can get deployed.
Thanks in advance,
Jason
P.S. I’m in Arnold 95223 but willing to travel wherever

 

[northmanlogging]

CalFire does things a little different down there, but I think you need to have various certifications through them to even carry a chainsaw anywhere near a fire...

anyhow, some CA locals should be along soon with better info

 

[madhatte]

Paging @2dogs

 

[rustykfd]

If you just want to get in the system and gain some insight, I know the feds hire a lot of chippers for fires and fire rehab. You just run the chipper and a hand crew drags brush.

Contract fallers just cut trees in my experience, no swamper. Fallers work in pairs.

CA might be different, most of my experience is on Fed fires in management teams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ted Jenkins]

When I worked in Oregon back in the seventies' with the USFS contracting was pretty easy. You did not need much insurance or equipment. I have worked with the USFS quite consistently for more than twenty years, but getting involved with fire suppression is getting harder, If you get connected with the USFS they have their system and it does not matter where. Working with Cal Fire is some what impossible. I did have a meeting with some Cal Fire people a year or two ago. They were open to some contracting, but not really fire suppression. If you want to get involved with USFS then they have much information that is available on line as to get started. The people I talked to kept directing me to set up a strike team with a pumper and crew which would be about a million dollar investment annually. During my investigation the possibility of a manned tanker appeared like a possible option which was a more feasible possibility. I wanted to do chain saw work with my expertise and equipment, but was not encouraged. The involvement was so confining that to run another business seemed unlikely. Thus I decided I needed to work with one or another, but not both. Thanks

 

[2dogs]

I was a contract faller for Cal Fire for several seasons though I only worked a few fires. I think 2016 was the last year. My phone hardly rang until mid-July then all hell broke loose. I chose to work just a few fires but I worked rehab on one for nearly two years. Fun times.

I said all that to make sure you understand my knowledge of the system may be lacking or just plain wrong. But that has never stopped me from throwing my opinions out there. Cal Fire hires "falling modules" which is a faller and a swamper. The faller pays the swamper out of his pay which at the time was around $1,700/day. That sounds like a lot but out of that you pay insurance, fuel, food, saws including breakage, PPE etc. A fire shelter is $300.00 or more. You need a reliable decent truck too, no junk allowed on the fireline, your truck will be inspected before fire season. At the time fallers were supplied with a radio though most of us had our own. A radio costs about $1,700.00, You are not put up in a motel at Cal Fire's expense, and on smaller incidents you will not be fed. Your module has to be able to commit to a fire when you answer the phone. If you take the incident or not your name then cycles back to the bottom of which ever list you are on.

To clarify, do you have your hired equipment vendor card? If so you are on a list but to be sure call your local headquarters and ask for the hired equipment vendor specialist. That person may be on a fire somewhere and may not get back to you. BTW you are months late to be doing this. Next year nail all these things down by February. Don't expect there to be a falling boss on all incidents, there may only be a firefighter acting as an engineer/captain. Your assignment may be vague so ask any questions you have politely. This person will write your review.

Once you are on a list regardless of the position you are considered an expert. You can turn down an assignment if you can't handle it safely, just follow the guidelines in the IRPG.

 

[HumBurner]

I was a contract faller for Cal Fire for several seasons though I only worked a few fires. I think 2016 was the last year. My phone hardly rang until mid-July then all hell broke loose. I chose to work just a few fires but I worked rehab on one for nearly two years. Fun times.

I said all that to make sure you understand my knowledge of the system may be lacking or just plain wrong. But that has never stopped me from throwing my opinions out there. Cal Fire hires "falling modules" which is a faller and a swamper. The faller pays the swamper out of his pay which at the time was around $1,700/day. That sounds like a lot but out of that you pay insurance, fuel, food, saws including breakage, PPE etc. A fire shelter is $300.00 or more. You need a reliable decent truck too, no junk allowed on the fireline, your truck will be inspected before fire season. At the time fallers were supplied with a radio though most of us had our own. A radio costs about $1,700.00, You are not put up in a motel at Cal Fire's expense, and on smaller incidents you will not be fed. Your module has to be able to commit to a fire when you answer the phone. If you take the incident or not your name then cycles back to the bottom of which ever list you are on.


Also, if you are hired on contract to run a chainsaw, safety bosses will note you for doing just about anything other than running a chainsaw. My crew-boss has encountered this a few times when attempting to cut a tree/snag/log is by far the most dangerous option; they chose to use rigging or other tools and were later contacted by safety officials. There were no penalties, but there certainly could have been.

To clarify, do you have your hired equipment vendor card? If so you are on a list but to be sure call your local headquarters and ask for the hired equipment vendor specialist. That person may be on a fire somewhere and may not get back to you. BTW you are months late to be doing this. Next year nail all these things down by February. Don't expect there to be a falling boss on all incidents, there may only be a firefighter acting as an engineer/captain. Your assignment may be vague so ask any questions you have politely. This person will write your review.

Once you are on a list regardless of the position you are considered an expert. You can turn down an assignment if you can't handle it safely, just follow the guidelines in the IRPG.

There are also double-modules, which is two fallers and no swamper. That allows flexibility for each sawyer to both swamp and saw as they need rest from one or the other. I'm not sure how it works turning down a call when you are not already deployed, but IF you are deployed (as in, on payroll and active on a fire) and you turn down a tree or site, you are done on that fire. You go home and wait for them to call you again, which may or may not happen that season. If someone shows a trend of turning down trees or moving-sites, my understanding is that person is less likely to be called upon in future incidents, or at least being one of the first to be called.

 

[northmanlogging]

There are also double-modules, which is two fallers and no swamper. That allows flexibility for each sawyer to both swamp and saw as they need rest from one or the other. I'm not sure how it works turning down a call when you are not already deployed, but IF you are deployed (as in, on payroll and active on a fire) and you turn down a tree or site, you are done on that fire. You go home and wait for them to call you again, which may or may not happen that season. If someone shows a trend of turning down trees or moving-sites, my understanding is that person is less likely to be called upon in future incidents, or at least being one of the first to be called.

Wait a minute, if you turn down fallling a hazard tree because you are concerned about it, they send you packing? What kind of backwards **** is that, half burned trees are sketchy at best, one mistake its and its smashish goes the cutter, it should be regular practice to avoid getting killed, pushing folks past what they consider safe and into things you know is not even remotely safe, is literally criminal.

Worst case scenerio, rather then cut the tree there is always the option to blast em, at least then by the time gravity re-establishes control, no one is around to get killed

 

[HumBurner]

Wait a minute, if you turn down fallling a hazard tree because you are concerned about it, they send you packing? What kind of backwards **** is that, half burned trees are sketchy at best, one mistake its and its smashish goes the cutter, it should be regular practice to avoid getting killed, pushing folks past what they consider safe and into things you know is not even remotely safe, is literally criminal.

Worst case scenerio, rather then cut the tree there is always the option to blast em, at least then by the time gravity re-establishes control, no one is around to get killed

It is possible, though I haven't heard of it, that if one was to address safety as the issue, that there may be exceptions. However, for every faller there is that finds a tree too unsafe to work, there are a dozen other fallers that wouldn't think twice about it. Again, this is my understanding of the situation based on a few anecdotal, though direct from the source, accounts. I have never contracted with CalFire or USFS. There also may be exceptions and/or different sets of rules for people working FOR USFS/Calfire and not contracting WITH them.

 

[RandyMac]

Learning when to walk away was a tough one for me, I rarely did so when falling timber and never on a fire.

 

[JRoland]

I was a contract faller for Cal Fire for several seasons though I only worked a few fires. I think 2016 was the last year. My phone hardly rang until mid-July then all hell broke loose. I chose to work just a few fires but I worked rehab on one for nearly two years. Fun times.

I said all that to make sure you understand my knowledge of the system may be lacking or just plain wrong. But that has never stopped me from throwing my opinions out there. Cal Fire hires "falling modules" which is a faller and a swamper. The faller pays the swamper out of his pay which at the time was around $1,700/day. That sounds like a lot but out of that you pay insurance, fuel, food, saws including breakage, PPE etc. A fire shelter is $300.00 or more. You need a reliable decent truck too, no junk allowed on the fireline, your truck will be inspected before fire season. At the time fallers were supplied with a radio though most of us had our own. A radio costs about $1,700.00, You are not put up in a motel at Cal Fire's expense, and on smaller incidents you will not be fed. Your module has to be able to commit to a fire when you answer the phone. If you take the incident or not your name then cycles back to the bottom of which ever list you are on.

To clarify, do you have your hired equipment vendor card? If so you are on a list but to be sure call your local headquarters and ask for the hired equipment vendor specialist. That person may be on a fire somewhere and may not get back to you. BTW you are months late to be doing this. Next year nail all these things down by February. Don't expect there to be a falling boss on all incidents, there may only be a firefighter acting as an engineer/captain. Your assignment may be vague so ask any questions you have politely. This person will write your review.

Once you are on a list regardless of the position you are considered an expert. You can turn down an assignment if you can't handle it safely, just follow the guidelines in the IRPG.

Thanks for the detailed reply. To clarify, I have my “Interagency Emergency Equipment Operator Card”.
I am a single resource, and looking to get on with an existing contractor- drive their water truck, be a faller in their module, etc.
My plan is to check it out this year, go out on a few fires, see how it all goes, then maybe this winter I’ll bump my insurance up and get all my own stuff to contract out next season. I also have a partner who is currently doing another job, but will be available next year. We both have Class A licenses, so we were considering if we had a water tender staffed with two folks, it would be able to work 24 hours.
But I’d rather fall trees.
I realize that about the trucks too- I‘ve been to a few fires and my junk didn’t pass the first try, so I was able to fix it and just lose 2 days. Currently I have either a 30 year old Cummins with 300k miles or a 20 year old Chevy (neither with working AC ) I wouldn’t want to take either of them on a fire.
Mainly looking to make some contacts and hopefully go on a few fires for this summer.
Jason

 

[2dogs]

There are also double-modules, which is two fallers and no swamper. That allows flexibility for each sawyer to both swamp and saw as they need rest from one or the other. I'm not sure how it works turning down a call when you are not already deployed, but IF you are deployed (as in, on payroll and active on a fire) and you turn down a tree or site, you are done on that fire. You go home and wait for them to call you again, which may or may not happen that season. If someone shows a trend of turning down trees or moving-sites, my understanding is that person is less likely to be called upon in future incidents, or at least being one of the first to be called.

Cal Fire will never ask a faller to take on a tree too hazardous fall. I have turned down a tree with no repercussions, I just moved to the next tree. I also continued to be called up. If a dozer or an excavator is working the fire and is in proximity then they might be used. If not they will call a blaster. Anecdotes are not facts or personal observations. Over estimating one's skill can lead to deaths. It happen to a dozer operator (two actually) very close to where I was working.

 

[JRoland]

There are also double-modules, which is two fallers and no swamper. That allows flexibility for each sawyer to both swamp and saw as they need rest from one or the other. I'm not sure how it works turning down a call when you are not already deployed, but IF you are deployed (as in, on payroll and active on a fire) and you turn down a tree or site, you are done on that fire. You go home and wait for them to call you again, which may or may not happen that season. If someone shows a trend of turning down trees or moving-sites, my understanding is that person is less likely to be called upon in future incidents, or at least being one of the first to be called.

Yeah, I was at the Camp Fire in Paradise with my SAR group and was talking to some of the fallers there and saw both the one faller one swamper module and the dual faller modules.
I like cutting trees but since I’m the last guy to get signed up I’m down for whatever.
As far as walking away from trees- I wouldn’t want to get into a Swinging D**k contest with anyone there- when I’ve done line clearance (both for fire cleanup and as a climber/ faller) that was always the rumor too- ” you can turn down any tree but may not get called back” but I’ve seen more often it was folks getting sent home due to not walking away and sending a tree through the lines. So I think I’ll just take it as I see it once I’m there.

 

[2dogs]

Driving a water tender can be fun too, and it is a lot easier on the body. I drove one in 1987 on the Pebble Beach fire, worked 36 hours straight the first shift. It is difficult to cat nap in a Peterbilt. (I occasionally drove my late father in law's 1955 Pete with a 5 and a 4, never knew what gear I was in). I wish the WT I drove had tank balls, it really rocked, poor baffling.

 

[RandyMac]

''Back in the day'' stories have little relevance in this time, things were very different then, the men doing the work were different, although the work remains the same, Governmental and societal interference has weakened the strain. Much of the personal initiative has been removed, replaced by overweening regs and certifications, leading toward a trend to overthink situations, which in many cases turns to fear and promotes walking away, often leaving often critical things left undone or unduly delayed.

 

[northmanlogging]

''Back in the day'' stories have little relevance in this time, things were very different then, the men doing the work were different, although the work remains the same, Governmental and societal interference has weakened the strain. Much of the personal initiative has been removed, replaced by overweening regs and certifications, leading toward a trend to overthink situations, which in many cases turns to fear and promotes walking away, often leaving often critical things left undone or unduly delayed.

Not many that understand risk vs reward, granted risking for a wage is foolish, but if you understand your risk puts others out of danger, then wages are secondary, which I do believe is lost on far to many people these days, old and young.

I don't have employees, so all the risk comes back to me, not many I've walked away from (mostly in my learning years) but sure are plenty I probably should have. Now if I did have employees, I'd get mighty uncomfortable putting someone else in harms way, so I could remain comfy and safe.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I was a contract faller for Cal Fire for several seasons though I only worked a few fires. I think 2016 was the last year. My phone hardly rang until mid-July then all hell broke loose. I chose to work just a few fires but I worked rehab on one for nearly two years. Fun times.

I said all that to make sure you understand my knowledge of the system may be lacking or just plain wrong. But that has never stopped me from throwing my opinions out there. Cal Fire hires "falling modules" which is a faller and a swamper. The faller pays the swamper out of his pay which at the time was around $1,700/day. That sounds like a lot but out of that you pay insurance, fuel, food, saws including breakage, PPE etc. A fire shelter is $300.00 or more. You need a reliable decent truck too, no junk allowed on the fireline, your truck will be inspected before fire season. At the time fallers were supplied with a radio though most of us had our own. A radio costs about $1,700.00, You are not put up in a motel at Cal Fire's expense, and on smaller incidents you will not be fed. Your module has to be able to commit to a fire when you answer the phone. If you take the incident or not your name then cycles back to the bottom of which ever list you are on.

To clarify, do you have your hired equipment vendor card? If so you are on a list but to be sure call your local headquarters and ask for the hired equipment vendor specialist. That person may be on a fire somewhere and may not get back to you. BTW you are months late to be doing this. Next year nail all these things down by February. Don't expect there to be a falling boss on all incidents, there may only be a firefighter acting as an engineer/captain. Your assignment may be vague so ask any questions you have politely. This person will write your review.

Once you are on a list regardless of the position you are considered an expert. You can turn down an assignment if you can't handle it safely, just follow the guidelines in the IRPG.

Sounds like solid experience that has paid off for you. Cal Fire would probably be a good bet for Californians and possibly those near enough to make the call in a timely manner. My experience with the USFS has been a different situation with some similarities. When the USFS calls they do not care where you are from or how far you drive just so long as you arrive at a reasonable time. My thinking was to have a trailer with a tractor pulled by a 5 to 6k gallon tanker. With two options available it seemed more likely to get calls. I finally quit trying because of so many issues and complications, but it still seems possible for those that have all the ingredients. Thanks

 

[2dogs]

I think the best option for anyone trying to break into fire is to 1. either work for a contractor or 2. hit up all the Headquarters in the off season and make yourself known. You will need an operator/vendor card and good clean looking equipment. There will be inspections before fire season and inspections while on fires/demob. In Cali state OES maintains the lists. If you are a disabled veteran, a female (of some type, after all it is Cali), a minority then you may be on several lists. I don't know how many there are but you can view the lists online through fire.ca.gov.

 

[JRoland]

So what’s happened now is I talked with a contractor about possibly being a tracked chipper operator. He’s on a fire now and is talking it over with his partner and going to get back to me when he returns home.
Also talked with a different contractor who takes water tenders out and possibly would be a second operator for one of his rigs so where it can work 24 hours instead of 12.
Nothing for sure yet though.

 

[2dogs]

This is a great way to start. Best of luck.

Come to the GTG in November in Napa County and I'll tell you a few stories that don't fit in here. (Assuming we have a GTG).