M-Tronic - Avoid? Or Acquire?

[Levi of the North]

Hello from Ontario, Canada all!

I'm in the market to finally purchase my first chainsaw(s) after using my dad's Stihls for the last 15 years (193T, 036, and 460). I've got some decisions to make and could use help.

My biggest point of uncertainty at this time is whether to buy a saw with M-Tronic tech in it (I'm a Stihl loyalist). I generally prefer my machinery to be low-tech, easy to fix, and durable as hell. Putting computers in a chainsaw seems like a poor idea IMO, but that's just bias. Would like to hear from some more experienced folks as to what the real-life benefits are, and drawbacks.

Additionally, I'm probably considering buying something like a 271, then a 461 down the road. Those would cover pretty much anything I'd ever need a saw for. That or getting something in the same range as my dad's 036 as a do-all saw. Curious if there's any particular models I should be looking at/avoiding.

Background factors:

- Saw(s) would be used for a variety of brush-clearing, farm, and firewood-cutting tasks. We get into some big hardwood stuff in this part of Ontario (maple, walnut, ash, hickory) so I want to have some good torque and bar length options (this is where dad's 460 shines). Need to have something lighter for clearing brambles and higher-up limbs too though.

- Money is not a major concern. I'm not using these professionally, but would rather pay for quality up-front.

- I'm moderately handy, and like being able to fix my own things. Far from a small-engine mechanic though.

- Fuel efficiency is not a big concern. I drive 1000km+ a week for work, a litre or two for the saw is peanuts.

Appreciate any insight you folks have! Especially on the M-Tronic question.

 

[chipper1]

Hello from Ontario, Canada all!

I'm in the market to finally purchase my first chainsaw(s) after using my dad's Stihls for the last 15 years (193T, 036, and 460). I've got some decisions to make and could use help.

My biggest point of uncertainty at this time is whether to buy a saw with M-Tronic tech in it (I'm a Stihl loyalist). I generally prefer my machinery to be low-tech, easy to fix, and durable as hell. Putting computers in a chainsaw seems like a poor idea IMO, but that's just bias. Would like to hear from some more experienced folks as to what the real-life benefits are, and drawbacks.

Additionally, I'm probably considering buying something like a 271, then a 461 down the road. Those would cover pretty much anything I'd ever need a saw for. That or getting something in the same range as my dad's 036 as a do-all saw. Curious if there's any particular models I should be looking at/avoiding.

Background factors:

- Saw(s) would be used for a variety of brush-clearing, farm, and firewood-cutting tasks. We get into some big hardwood stuff in this part of Ontario (maple, walnut, ash, hickory) so I want to have some good torque and bar length options (this is where dad's 460 shines). Need to have something lighter for clearing brambles and higher-up limbs too though.

- Money is not a major concern. I'm not using these professionally, but would rather pay for quality up-front.

- I'm moderately handy, and like being able to fix my own things. Far from a small-engine mechanic though.

- Fuel efficiency is not a big concern. I drive 1000km+ a week for work, a litre or two for the saw is peanuts.

Appreciate any insight you folks have! Especially on the M-Tronic question.

Welcome to AS Levi.
I like the mtronic saws for paying work myself, but don't always recommend them for firewood.
They get great fuel economy, I know that you're not trying to save money on fuel, but this gives a much longer run time between tanks which means more work is getting done. The newest mtronic saws also have a return to run on the master switch where the control goes back to the run position after you shut it off, another small time saving feature. I haven't had any problems with my mtronic saws through the yrs and I jumped in back when the 441cm first came out. There have been plenty of problems with them through the yrs though, and they have had a good number of issues with the solenoids on them. They have some odd resets for the mtronic system that are different on each saw from what I've seen, but I've never used them.
Not sure what you want with a 271 this is a model I'd avoid(smallest displacement for the chassis), I'd probably get a 250/251 if I I was looking at something smaller in the farm ranch line or a 241 if they are available up there, but a standard carb 261 would be something that would go well with a 461.

From what you've said a standard carb 261 and a 461 are what I would suggest, both very durable and serviceable by you.
Why wait for the 461, as you said money is not a concern , besides they will be getting pushed out by the 462 so if you want one now is the time to act.
Hope this helps,
Brett

 

[holeycow]

I’m an avoider.

The 461 is being superseded by the 462, which is moronic (ha!ha! that’s what came up in the auto spell thing - I’ll leave it). I would get a 461 before they are gone.

I don’t believe that the 261 is available in Canada without moronic ( ha!!, did it again). I could be wrong, you may be able to special order?? The moronic ( and again!!) 261 is on sale right now, I think. Imo, all the auto tune saws run on the edge of lean and as noted there have been some issues.

Pro Stihls and Huskies in the 50cc size are all autotune, I think. I think both Stihl and Husky still offer regular carbed 70cc models (461, 372). Not for long, guaranteed.

I’d inquire about a non mtronic (huh? Didn’t do it that time) 261. I would avoid the 271. It’s a bit of an oddball and not very popular, really.

MS461 and Echo cs501p is what I would do. There’s always the Makita ea5000 (Dolmar 5105) which is a beautiful saw with a delicious motor, but not a great handler.

You want good saws? Buy pristine used from the late 90’s early 2000’s. They have not yet been bettered, imo.

There’s a fellow or two on here that can ship you brand-new older models from overseas ( where many are still sold). Unfortunately the math is pretty tough wrt Canadian dollar value.

It’s a shame we are stuck with mtronic in most pro models.

The Echo and Dolmar I mentioned are not autotune. I’m only imagining the Echo to be a great saw, as I haven’t run one. I’ve only held one. Some say they’re a little weak (but can be lightly modified to run decently). The Dolmar is certainly not weak, but it’s bulky and not a great handler for 50cc, imo.

It looks like you’ve run some good saws, so you would feel the handling of the Dolmar. It is super smooth and really does have a great motor though.

You want a really sweet little saw that handles decently and has nice power for limbing? The Makita ea4300 (Dolmar 421) is a really, really nice little saw. I would say that it would put the 271 and most of the modern saws in it’s class to shame . It’s a pro-constructed magnesium saw with superlative antivibe and a really nice overall feel. The 271 is a plastic saw. As suggested, the 251 would be a better choice (it’s a plastic saw too, but at least it’s not a heavy pig for its displacement). The little Dolmar 421 kicks that 251’s ass in all ways, btw. Jftr.

I realize you said you’re a Stihl loyalist. Being brand loyal is no way to buy the best-in-class of any type of machinery, but I can understand that loyalty. I don’t do that, mainly cause I don’t let others work on my stuff, so I see no advantage whatsoever for me.

You’ve run good pro saws (some of the best ever made). I doubt you’ll be satisfied with a farm-saw. They are heavy for their power and their power is somewhat uninspiring in its delivery.

If you’re a Stihl guy, don’t miss out on the last of the 461’s. Known good saw. The 462 is unknown and computer tuned.

I wrote a fricken book! And I’m all over the place. Sorry! Deal with it. Ha!

Ps, the previous poster’s comment regarding the new Stihl masterswitch has been Dolmar’s standard for many years. It makes the last generation Stihl switch seem ridiculous, kinda like those flippy caps.

 

[farmer steve]

Welcome to AS @Levi of the North. just some input. I cut a lot of firewood and my first m-tronic was the ms241. i have had no problems in the 3 years or so of running it. i bought the 462 this past winter and i don't have a lot of time on it (20 tanks+/-) so i can't say a lot about it's durabilty yet. it does handle nice with a 20"bar. the pic is the 241 with some dead,hard locust.

 

[pavel408]

The 461 is being superseded by the 462

IMO 461 is superseded by 500i, and 440 is superseded by 462.

Pro Stihls and Huskies in the 50cc size are all autotune, I think.

You can get MS261 carb version, but probably not in Canada... https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms261/

 

[pioneerguy600]

When the new M tronic saws work as designed they are fine but when they act up you need dealer support. The good thing about the older carbed saws is you can fix them yourself with basic hand tools. If you have a good dealer close by that can get the Mtronic saws fixed and back out quickly it would not be so bad owning them. For my own use I will stay with carb saws, fuel economy does not amount to a hill of beans for me.

 

[WidowMaker_1]

Only woman drive Autos lol

 

[nick060200]

I got a 461 and I'm glad I did, so much so that I think I'm gonna buy a second to give to my 6 month old son for his first birthday.

 

[Old2stroke]

Autotune is great when it works like it should, however if you have problems you will be making many trips to the dealer who might not have the expertise to actually fix it. Can get expensive after the warranty is off. Regular carb saws can be tuned to run just as well and you can repair them yourself without dealer assistance.

 

[Deleted member 117362]

Welcome! If you want torque in a 70cc range, buy a 572. Forgot you said Stihl.

 

[Deleted member 117362]

You guys make m-tronic and auto-tune sound like some type of black magic, while you use a computer controlled truck or car, personal computer, calculator or cell phone daily. All have been out for years and work well.

When the new M tronic saws work as designed they are fine but when they act up you need dealer support. The good thing about the older carbed saws is you can fix them yourself with basic hand tools. If you have a good dealer close by that can get the Mtronic saws fixed and back out quickly it would not be so bad owning them. For my own use I will stay with carb saws, fuel economy does not amount to a hill of beans for me.

Autotune is great when it works like it should, however if you have problems you will be making many trips to the dealer who might not have the expertise to actually fix it. Can get expensive after the warranty is off. Regular carb saws can be tuned to run just as well and you can repair them yourself without dealer assistance.

 

[holeycow]

Until they don’t...

 

[Deleted member 117362]

Until they don’t...

All carb saws are touble free, just like all carb cars? Everyone can rebuild and tune a carb saw properly? Many carb saws have been tuned to seized.

 

[holeycow]

I never said that, but;


There is no need whatsoever for computer controlled chainsaws. Just like there’s no need whatsoever for computer controlled vehicles, appliances, or a vast plethora of overcomplicated, finicky, breakdown-prone, money-sucking-weasel hard-to-work-on-and-diagnose equipment that we are forced to buy every day.

So there! Ha!

 

[stihlaficionado]

I never said that, but;


There is no need whatsoever for computer controlled chainsaws. Just like there’s no need whatsoever for computer controlled vehicles, appliances, or a vast plethora of overcomplicated, finicky, breakdown-prone, money-sucking-weasel hard-to-work-on-and-diagnose equipment that we are forced to buy every day.

So there! Ha!

Luddites Unite!

Have owned plenty of AT/MT saws, longest owned is the ported 2252, going on 6 years. Takes some getting used to. Personally prefer the non-moronic
saws.

Sure do like that 500i

 

[Deleted member 117362]

View attachment 744916

Luddites Unite!

Have owned plenty of AT/MT saws, longest owned is the ported 2252, going on 6 years. Takes some getting used to. Personally prefer the non-moronic
saws.

Sure do like that 500i

No way, not computer controlled fuel injection!

 

[chipper1]

You guys make m-tronic and auto-tune sound like some type of black magic, while you use a computer controlled truck or car, personal computer, calculator or cell phone daily. All have been out for years and work well.

Your fortunate to have a great dealer.
That said I've not had any problems with an mtronic or an autotune saw that made it unable to get the job done(had an early 550 with a slight stumble off idle).

The 462 can be had in a non-mtronic version too, but for a guy who likes proven technology the 461 is a superior saw, and there's no arguing since the 462 has no real track record. Besides we all know the old proven equipment rescues the new tech. Most who make a living with a saw can afford to try the newer saws as its typically a small investment compared to someone cutting firewood. They would also have other saws to run if the new tech was broke down so it wouldn't be as big of a deal. I like my mtronic/autotune saws for work as they have always done great for me(I forgot to mention the captured bar nuts, nice option on them), but if I had problems with them I would grab another saw and keep cutting and sell the broken one at a small loss if I couldn't fix it easily myself, whats a couple hundred loss if your making money with a saw.

 

[chipper1]

IMO 461 is superseded by 500i, and 440 is superseded by 462.


You can get MS261 carb version, but probably not in Canada... https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms261/

while I get what you're saying the 440 hasnt been out for quite a while here, not 100% but I thought it was long gone there too so how would it superseded it.

 

[chipper1]

Ps, the previous poster’s comment regarding the new Stihl masterswitch has been Dolmar’s standard for many years. It makes the last generation Stihl switch seem ridiculous, kinda like those flippy caps.

Yes they have had them on the 421 and I have them on my 4300, but it is not the standard on all their saws. The master control on the 4300/421 feels like its gonna break/very cheap, but it just keeps working, I really dont like the feel of it. If it was standard then my 7900/7910s would have it .
I agree with everything else in your post, especially the part about flippy caps , but I do like them better than the previous version stihl used.
And as far as choosing based on a brand and not the best of that class of saw/equipment many have taken been taken for a ride because they go with a brand they know and have grown to trust rather than picking a better quality product from another manufacturer.

 

[stihl86]

Levi, I have worked at a Stihl dealership for over 40 yrs. I'm the saw mechanic. All the qualifications.
I see hundreds of saws a year. Not just one I own. When the M-Tronic came out, there were a few problems.
Those have been fixed. The only problem I see are solenoids. Mostly because a "Pro" does -0- to the saw except ***** and whine like a schoolgirl. Solenoid problems show mostly on a MS201T. But that saw is used the most, by a great margin, in my area. Whats the symptom? Wont run on start and wont idle. All M-Tronics STILL have carbs. They aren't as mysterious as some of these guys are making them.
But the dealer network for outdoor power equipment is collapsing at a alarming rate. Majority in the industry are incompetent idiots. The dealer you choose is more important than the product.
Listening to some of these responses..... we'd still be using candles and chitting in a hole.
Any modern saw has electronics on it.