maximum possible re-direct when felling a leaner

[Plasmech]

What as a general rule could be considered the maximum amount of re-direct possible when felling a leaning tree (say 25 degrees lean)? If 0 degrees is where she really wants to go, is say +/- 30 degrees possible with the proper face cut? I imagine at some point, the saw will bind on the back cut...or the hinge will blow apart in your face?

 

[Ekka]

Depend on the side rope, if you got a side rope then you got no worries.

 

[treemandan]

Depends on the wood you are working with. What kind, what part of the tree? what shape is it in, etc. Yoou can do a lot with a notch, there is lots of control in there. Some wood does not hold a hinge ( just breaks with no flex) very well and that could be a real big set back. You have to know the hinge will hold until the trunk has come about and has made it to where you want it to go. If it breaks before? Not good. You may even end up squished.
So you should look out for rot and stuff that would interfere with a clean notch, like when you were chunking down the pine, I had you cut is clean places on the stem.
Even if you realize it ain't gonna go after you have made a back cut the rope you put in it first will save your ass. So put the rope in, especially if you are in the tree and have a groundy to pull limbs so they don't land on your head. Even if its real easy, PUT A ROPE IN IT TO PULL IT OVER. Either with the throwball or climb to set , do it right.
Well if you are cutting it the way its leaning I guess you don't need the rope. Anyway, When you dropped the pine trunk you should have been a little more cautious, it is no time to let the guard down til it stops moving. Don't go behind a falling trunk, the barber is waiting there, go off in the opposite direction of the fall but at an angle away from the trunk as well.

 

[joesawer]

There are too many variables to answer with a degree of lean number.
Experience will tell you a lot.
If the favor is behind the hinge and you make your cuts properly, the tree should set back on your bar long before your hinge blows apart in your face. But I have lost a few over backwards.

 

[Spottedgum]

Depends on the wood you are working with. What kind, what part of the tree? what shape is it in, etc. Yoou can do a lot with a notch, there is lots of control in there. Some wood does not hold a hinge ( just breaks with no flex) very well and that could be a real big set back. You have to know the hinge will hold until the trunk has come about and has made it to where you want it to go. If it breaks before? Not good. You may even end up squished.
So you should look out for rot and stuff that would interfere with a clean notch, like when you were chunking down the pine, I had you cut is clean places on the stem.
Even if you realize it ain't gonna go after you have made a back cut the rope you put in it first will save your ass. So put the rope in, especially if you are in the tree and have a groundy to pull limbs so they don't land on your head. Even if its real easy, PUT A ROPE IN IT TO PULL IT OVER. Either with the throwball or climb to set , do it right.
Well if you are cutting it the way its leaning I guess you don't need the rope. Anyway, When you dropped the pine trunk you should have been a little more cautious, it is no time to let the guard down til it stops moving. Don't go behind a falling trunk, the barber is waiting there, go off in the opposite direction of the fall but at an angle away from the trunk as well.

This is EXACTLY right. Couldn't put it better. If fall control is critical, a rope and winch is far better than a damage bill. Hinges and fell cuts are 10% theory and 90% experience.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think in terms of raw geometry is the outer constraint/potential;
Then species/condition as considerations of how much that potential/range is applied/reachable.
i kinda think in sound wood can get towards 45degrees with relative risk, more extreme after that.
If the mechanical geometry is not there, species is irrelevant type view.
.
A forward lean to me is a 2 dimensional scenario of down and forward
>> while a sideLean more 3 dimensional scenario of down and forward and to side
>> sideLean/3d description not in pull on round tree, all are equal leverage paths max
Linear simple strip hinge gives unequal leveraged path maximums across hinge
>> so now can have complexity of side pull, 3 dimensional scenario
.
Tapered Hinge is a more complex hinge against the more complex problem.
>> tree folds at same forward hinge resistance if same pivot point ( compressed front on sideLean side of hinge )
>> as all hinges will start to fold at forward resistance just less than load
BUT, different resistance against sideForce, as a 'heavier ballast' truing side pull more to center w/Tapers Hinge
>> same fold forward resistance, but anti-sideForce leveraged positions now pulling
>> so forward resistance is a response to leveraged load
>> so just reapportioned fibers to more side leverage while maintaining forward leverage
AND, can have more direct inline fibers controlling Center of Gravity going forward in motion.
>> until tear off, so openness of face dictates this commitment duration.
.
Rope/wedge force of direction portions are on forward or anti-sideForce directions
>> i think mostly exercise hinge stronger with FAUX load to force stronger hinge/ thicker from earlier fold as a response
>> to then let hinge fight forces until tear off, and with added leverage multiplier in chain
Rather than FAUX support against sideLean, relieved as tree starts to move/lifts from wedge etc.
>> more of a babying of hinge with force that could be used to exercise thicker hinge response
.
BUT, that is in GOOD wood, in lessers , perhaps more babying including felling into lean.
Still, Tapered Hinge simply doesn't remove the most leveraged controlling positions tree used thru life
>> that can still allow folding forward too.
So, also works in climbing, rigging, bucking top bind etc.
Center punch hinge can again avail more fibers to extreme leverage positions against sideLean while maintaining same forward resistance.
>> best to leave at least spot of fiber front lean side as closest pivot possible
>> giving greatest usable leverage distance to fibers
>> and as anti-swivel from too hard a Tapered Hinge pull across stump
.
Strip Hinge exercised thicker can give enough fiber positions for falling some sideLeans, but Tapered Hinge accentuates the affect.

.

 

[softdown]

Not a pro but a winch is very persuasive.

 

[ATH]

Not a pro but a winch is very persuasive.

So is a skidder

 

[JTM]

I like swinging small hickory trees. It’s fun. Maybe up to 18” in diameter is my limit. Anything else gets roped.

 

[beastmaster]

The height of the tree has a impact if it’s a tall tree. A short spar at 30 degrees isn’t the same as a 100 footer at 30%. There’s techniques such as side roping that’ll helps A leaner fall 30degrees against the lean. There’s cuts though frowned upon, that’ll help, Dutchmen, triple notch etc. species has a lot to do with it, hard wood, soft wood..
I never trust a leaner to go how I want it to. If there’s anything of value use a rope, or and chunk it down to remove end weight. You can’t win against leverage.