Milling chain safe for crosscut?

[Blue42]

I understand that using it for crosscut isn't recommended but, why? From what I understand, the ONLY difference between a milling chain and a semi-chisel full comp crosscut chain is a top plate angle of 30 degrees on the crosscut instead of 10 degrees. Does that really make a difference in safety for crosscutting? And, for that matter, does it really make much difference in effectiveness for crosscutting?

I have done some milling with my 395XP but no crosscut, and I want something that will be easier to handle because of my limited experience with a big saw. I understand that the safer choice should be semi-chisel full comp, rather than chisel, or skip chain. But then it seems like that pushes me to buy almost exactly what I already have. I have the Woodland Pro milling chain, and was about to get the Woodland, semi-chisel, full comp, but had to ask what the different really is.

 

[Mad Professor]

It has to do with how the wood fibers are oriented and severed.

Same idea with carpenter hand saws for crosscut vs rip cuts

 

[Philbert]

The 30° cross cut and 10° ripping angles are the top plate cutting angles ('A' in the diagram below). That also affects the bevel angle of the side plate cutting edge.


When crosscutting, the side plate cuts the wood fibers and the top plate clears out the chips (it is the real 'raker'!).
When ripping, the top plate cuts the wood fibers and the side cuts between them.
So, by switching roles, the different angles make a difference. Depth gauge settings may also be different, depending on the species of wood.

Granberg makes a special ripping chain that also has additional scoring cutters. My local saw shop custom makes this type of chain by grinding the top plate off half of the cutters, as well as changing the grinding angles.
https://granberg.com/product-category/chain/chain-chain/?v=7516fd43adaa


Back to your original question about safety: using a milling chain for crosscutting would probably be inefficient. I suppose that it is possible that it could lead to chain breakage or kickback, but not sure why you would want to use it that way. Using the chain for what it is optimized for makes the most sense, No reason you can't have different chains for different uses.

I have run a lot of semi-chisel, full comp, low kickback chains - they cut well if properly sharpened. The way that a chain is sharpened, including the amount of 'hook', and the depth gauge settings, will have a lot to do in how aggressive it cuts.

Philbert

 

[Blue42]

Thanks for the explanation. I have a 36" bar and milling chain. I have no objection to getting another chain, as long as it really does cut differently/more safely. But if there isn't any safety hazard to doing a couple crosscuts with a milling chain, I will just use that.

What exactly would make a milling chain less safe to use for a crosscut? As I understand it, basically the more bite your chain gets, the more chance of kickback. So full chisel, more hook to the cutter, lower rakers, are the factors that give more bite. Assuming that is correct, which of those factors does a ripping chain have that would make it less safe than a regular semi chisel full comp?

 

[foeke]

A correctly set up milling chain has its rakers way to low for normal cutting. Boging down is one thing, kickback is a far more dangerous side effect.
You probably will get a smooth surface.
Just buy multiple chains. With a 36" bar you don't need skip chain.

 

[AUSSIE1]

A milling chain should have rakers too low for cross cutting.

 

[rarefish383]

I mill with two 36” saws, a Homelite Super 1050, 100cc with 404 chain and a Stihl 660 with 3/8. I use out of the box Stihl RS for milling. A friend came over with ripping chain and both my saws cut just as fast and just as smooth. I can pull my saw off the mill and go straight to the wood pile. But, after bucking firewood, no matter how sharp it feels, it needs a touch up. I don’t want to put words in BobL’s mouth. But I’m pretty sure he said with proper technique you can cut just as fast and smooth standard chain. Maybe he’ll see this and set it straight. I just know I’ll never buy milling chain. I mill almost all Red, Chestnut, and White Oak.

 

[foeke]

You don't really need special milling chain. The cut will only be smoother, not quicker. But you do need to drop the rakers (with both) to mill.
Maybe you cross cut with the rakers to low anyway. Be careful then.

 

[BobL]

The theory is that when cross cutting the wood cut/torn fibres dangle/hang in from the side of the cut slightly reducing the kerf and is why higher top plate filing angles are used. When Milling there's fewer fibres hanging in from the side so lower top plate filing angles can be used. In practice I found it doesn't matter that much. I've waxed and waned about the role of top plate cutting angle in determining finish. I now reckon cut finish is mostly operator dependent. A good operator can get decent finish even with fully cross cut profiled chain. Of course if a chain is "loose", the mill flexes around and the saw is not held steady in the cut then chances are that higher top plate filing angles will allow the chain to dive sideways in the cut and roughen up the finish.

I also cross cut with the same low rakers as I use for milling - just gotta be a bit more careful. I guess one should alway be careful around chainsaws anyway.

 

[buttercup]

...I now reckon cut finish is mostly operator dependent...

I don't really care for "cut finish", by the time that wood has properly dried it will be twisted and curled.
Want to make something nice you need to put it through that planer/thicknesser anyway.
Of course if you just wants to make some rough hut or shed it wouldn't matter anyway either.

 

[foeke]

I get what you are saying, but if you stack it correctly and tie it down you can get it pretty straight. Having to remove 1 or 3 mm on a planer it quite a time saving.
Bob is right that the operator makes the biggest impact. No sloppy chain, good maintained bar etc. Makes a bigger difference than the 10° or 30° top plate.

 

[BobL]

Want to make something nice you need to put it through that planer/thicknesser anyway.

Not necessarily, and even then just a bit of care milling and storing of the timber can save a lot of thicknesser pSSERS.
No thicknesser ws used in making this table.




These are the bench tops in my shop.


these are a couple of bench tops in my shop - again no thicknesses involved, just a belt sander.

 

[Tarki0]

Not necessarily, and even then just a bit of care milling and storing of the timber can save a lot of thicknesser pSSERS.
No thicknesser ws used in making this table.
View attachment 842487

View attachment 842488

These are the bench tops in my shop.
View attachment 842488

these are a couple of bench tops in my shop - again no thicknesses involved, just a belt sander.
View attachment 842489

Looks superb

 

[buttercup]

Not necessarily, and even then just a bit of care milling and storing of the timber can save a lot of thicknesser pSSERS.
No thicknesser ws used in making this table.
View attachment 842487

View attachment 842488

These are the bench tops in my shop.
View attachment 842488

these are a couple of bench tops in my shop - again no thicknesses involved, just a belt sander.
View attachment 842489

Very nice sir.
Nothing like that is going to happen with my Granberg minimill with a 2x6 as a guide...

 

[Tarki0]

Did you sand those tops? I’d you didn’t I’d like to know what kind of voodoo magic spell you have to mill LIKE THAT. It’s just beautiful!