Mini's, Boxer vs Vermeer, which one to buy

[sgreanbeans]

So I am at the point where I cannot make up my mind, so I throw this out for all you to help!
I have been told that Boxer's are hard to control with 2 hands, like you cant do multiple functions while operating. The Vermeer on the other hand has "pilot" controls that are much easier. Could those of you who have them, let me know what ya think!
I also was told that you either have to move or load, not both at the same time with the Boxer, this is what is holding me back on them.

 

[arbor pro]

So I am at the point where I cannot make up my mind, so I throw this out for all you to help!
I have been told that Boxer's are hard to control with 2 hands, like you cant do multiple functions while operating. The Vermeer on the other hand has "pilot" controls that are much easier. Could those of you who have them, let me know what ya think!
I also was told that you either have to move or load, not both at the same time with the Boxer, this is what is holding me back on them.

As you may know, I have the boxer 532dx. You are correct about the controls. It is difficult to operate both the steering controls and the loader controls simutaneously. That is the only downfall to the boxer. If the controls were like that of the vermeer, it would be the best machine out there hands down.

After I recently demo'd the vermeer 600tx, I can say that the joystick controls are indeed better and the machine is pretty comfortable to operate; however, it has less power than the boxer and will not move dirt or aggregate any easier. I did not get to try a grapple on the vermeer - only a dirt bucket. I would assume that it will work fine with a grapple.

If I were looking to operate multiple attachments, I would go the boxer. If only moving aggregate, dirt, etc, I would go with a ditchwitch 650. For everything else, there's the vermeer. Good all-around machine but not perfect by any means. None of the minis are unfortunately. Personally, I still like the bobcats best but they don't make a larger machine in the power and lifting range of the boxer, vermeer or ditchwitch. If they ever do, I'll be buying one.

AP

 

[arbor pro]

After making my previous post, I called Boxer/Mertz Manufacturing and spoke with a lead engineer. I told him about the the issues with the controls and he said I'm not the first to mention it. They are working on a prototype 'retrofit' that would allow a current boxer owner to change his machine controls to joystick controls. Not sure exactly what they would be like and any cost associated with it but he asked for my info and said he is going to speak with his group of engineers working on the prototype and see about using me as a field tester for the retrofitted controls. I hope they do. If they work out, the boxer might just become the machine I always hoped/expected it to be.

 

[sgreanbeans]

good deal! thanks for your insight, I was looking at the Boxer 427, was going to get the BMG and a grapple for it. Its good to know that they are working on that problem, makes me lean towards the Boxer over the Vermeer.

 

[treevet]

Dingo was the first mini and is the best. 5 pumps among other reasons.

May not be as cute as others but IMO they are the top dog (prob in sales as well).

 

[capetrees]

I've been thinking about a mini for a long time too and from what I've seen and read, Vermeer is most comfortable but the Boxer can't be beat for lifting power. If they upgrade the Boxer with Vermeer type controls, again, Boxer will be hard to beat in the mini market from what I see.

 

[prentice110]

2 companies near me have the vermeer and before I bought my mt52, I ran the vermeer. yes the controls are easy to operate, but i feel the machine is a bit squirrly. My friend at a landscape co was hireing me out to do alot of work with my mt52, and then bought a boxer at an auction. It only out lifts me by a lil bit , but the controls suck and so does the pump configuration. Hes always asking to borrow mine over his. You should check out the mini skid thread in the heavy equipment section. All your ?'s have all been answered there.

 

[arbor pro]

I wish I had taken pictures of my Boxer in action on Saturday. Took down a 36"dbh Silver Maple and loaded out the trunk sections in 36-48" lengths. My new grapple handled the big rounds great. The boxer grunted a little but lifted the rounds into the dump trailer fine. The only thing that bothered me is the lack of attachment roll-back power. Of course, my bobcat mt-50 had problems trying to roll back large trunk rounds too.

Overall, I was able to clean up all the wood from the maple in about 1/2 the time my mt-50 would have been able to do it due to the extra lifting capacity of the boxer matched with the large grapple.

Only had a small drop zone so couldn't have imagined doing this job without a mini skid.

AP

 

[prentice110]

Arbor Pro

How much does that grapple weigh? I cant imagine being able to lift anything if I had that thing on my MT52.... I wanted a demo style grapple but they weigh so much. I have the BMG wich isnt light but still suprises me what I cant lift. I like the fact that I can manipulate logs thru tight gates with it holding them near verticale, and at the right angle , it brings the weight closer to the machine , so I can "cheat" on the capacity. ADD ON. I wish they put the straigt angle on the other way with the log dawgs on the BMG. and made them longer. every now and then when a log shifts when I get close to the fence or passed it it makes me think of the 'what ifs'. Havent hit anything yet, but anyone familiar with this biz knows that anything can and will happen. But Im such a dammed good operator, I shouldnt worry, tee hee.

 

[treevet]

I agree Prentice....I have the BMG and a Dingo grapple. I like the Dingo grapple for the logs as you do not need to worry about the grapple spinning around when you are trying to grab a log or if you are carrying a log thru a tight space and doing some damage.

It is best for grabbing big limbs or piles of limbs and pivoting them into the chipper's feeder rolls and just plain dragging brush.

With the Dingo (horizontal non pivoting) grapple you can just "doze" into a log until you get the right bite on the big boys or piles and we also will have a second guy jump onto the back of the unit to get the honkers air borne. The Dingo grapple also gets the logs higher for loading.

I also agree AP's grapple is made unnecessarily big and like my Dingo grapple.....you have to choke brush with a rope and attach it to the to grapple to drag brush non horizontally. I see that unit in the Tree Trader Mag every month. Hard to pay that much and not buy a new one (or a Dingo).

 

[arbor pro]

...I also agree AP's grapple is made unnecessarily big and like my Dingo grapple.....you have to choke brush with a rope and attach it to the to grapple to drag brush non horizontally. I see that unit in the Tree Trader Mag every month. Hard to pay that much and not buy a new one (or a Dingo).

You haven't seen my boxer in the Tree Trader every month. It only ran one month. New, a 532dx Boxer costs $23k without any attachments. Mine was listed for $19k including a $1500 grapple. That's significantly less than a new setup with only 50 hours on it.

That grapple would be way too big on a smaller mini skid but it's matched perfectly well for a 32hp skid steer. I think you're overlooking the fact that this boxer is lifts 50% more and has 50% more HP so it can handle the bigger grapple.

I've won't argue that a BMG grapple doesn't have its good points. However, for my operation, it is not the right grapple. A demolition-typle bucket/grapple works best. My custom grapple is just right for this machine. It would not have worked on my bobcat mt-50. On that machine, it would have been way way too big.

PS - I also tried my grapple on a ditchwitch sk650. It worked great. But then, the ditchwitch is also a 30+ hp machine. That's the difference. You can't put a big grapple on a little 20hp machine.

 

[arbor pro]

pics

I got some photos of the log rounds that I loaded with my boxer and new grapple on the maple removal I spoke of previously. The sides on the dump trailer are 18". The board extensions are 2x12s so that makes it 30" to the top of the boards. The logs are a good 36" dbh and I cut them at least 36" long because they're at least as long as the grapple is wide and it's 36".

Using a wood weight calculator, I come up with about 1000# for each chunk. The grapple easily fit around each piece - no need to grab it from the end like I had to with my bobcat and smaller grapple.

With the weight of the grapple and the log, i figure I was lifting at least 1300#. Not bad for a 'mini'. Will a dingo do that?

 

[arbor pro]

I got some photos of the log rounds that I loaded with my boxer and new grapple on the maple removal I spoke of previously. The sides on the dump trailer are 18". The board extensions are 2x12s so that makes it 30" to the top of the boards. The logs are a good 36" dbh and I cut them at least 36" long because they're at least as long as the grapple is wide and it's 36".

Using a wood weight calculator, I come up with about 1000# for each chunk. The grapple easily fit around each piece - no need to grab it from the end like I had to with my bobcat and smaller grapple.

With the weight of the grapple and the log, i figure I was lifting at least 1300#. Not bad for a 'mini'. Will a dingo do that?

Forgot photos...

 

[adam32]

I have a Boxer but use it mainly for trenching and holes. It works awesome for that! About 700 hrs on it with pretty much zero trouble, a track will come off on steep/loose sidehills sometimes. Also use it for rock/dirt sometimes where the skid steer can't fit and yes it is kinda slow not being able to dump/load/move much at the same time, but its still A LOT better then a shovel and wheelbarrow! Haven't lifted any logs with it, got the excavator for that!!

 

[prentice110]

A P, 2 things

Ok you got the big one. Yes it must be nice to out lift all of us, but #1. I bought mine to go thru gates. #2. I hope you have a boxer dealer close to you. If you dont, you will no doubt one day understand why I said that.

 

[arbor pro]

Ok you got the big one. Yes it must be nice to out lift all of us, but #1. I bought mine to go thru gates. #2. I hope you have a boxer dealer close to you. If you dont, you will no doubt one day understand why I said that.

1) The 532dx boxer will go through a 36" gate with the tracks retracted (How I run the machine 95% of the time). With the tracks extended for stability on slopes, it is 43" wide but again, I seldom run it that way. Actually, being one of the bigger mini skids while still being able to go through a 36" gate was one of the big selling points for my buying a boxer. The DW sk650 far outperforms the boxer in many ways but it's too darn wide (42" I believe) so I had to rule it out. Same with the new vermeer 800tx which looks promising but is also too wide.

2) I don't have a dealer close but my local mustang dealer can fix anything including minis. My machine just came out of warranty so it doesn't really matter who fixes it. I hope I don't have problems but your warning is heeded and I will welcome your "I told you so" if I start to have problems. Truce?

I believe there is yet to be a perfect mini skid on the market. I am not claiming the boxer to be such. It is far from it. Like I said previously, I would have gone with another bobcat if they made a 30hp mini but they don't. Dumb marketing on their part as sooner or later, they will be forced to come out with one in order to compete with boxer, ditch witch, vermeer and anybody else who has a bigger mini that still fits through a 36" gate.

 

[prentice110]

Parts

I dont want to fight or split hairs over it either, its just my amigos had a 'lot of fun' when it comes down to gettin parts for his boxer. I bought my mt52 in december 07' and becides the tracks, have had no problems whatsoever. I have 640hrs on that thing and it was brand spankin new when I got it. I got a dealer right down the road. Scares the hell outa me thinking about what to do when the starter goes. You gotta have the hands of a chinese midget to get to it, and once its loose, what/where do you go with the thing? the mechanic at Bobcat was talking to me about it cuz I asked, he said its a nitemare.

 

[epicklein22]

Any opinions on the Ditch Witch mini's? I see a few of them running around. Dingo's and vermeers rule the roost around here though overall. I'm not a big fan of Vermeer or Toro though.:bang:

 

[treevet]

anybody else who has a bigger mini that still fits through a 36" gate.

bigger is not nec. better. Much harder on turf. My 525 tx Dingo 25 hp diesel is 34" wide and weighs 1900 lbs w/out attachments. It has a tip cap. of 1580 lbs. and turns and handles with finesse and ease. I have few to compare to but cannot imagine any other being any better. If I wanted to go bigger I would go to an articulating loader. When I want to take out huge stuff....I got a crane.

Some of the comparo's discussed can be like comparing an echo saw to a stihl ms200 just because they have similar displacement. There are so many factors but you have to look at the best "all arounder" Dingo is my bet.

 

[arbor pro]

Any opinions on the Ditch Witch mini's? I see a few of them running around. Dingo's and vermeers rule the roost around here though overall. I'm not a big fan of Vermeer or Toro though.:bang:

I tried the wide-tracked sk650 recently. That thing is incredibly impressive in just about every way except that it will not fit through a 36" gate without narrow tracks. With narrow tracks, it believe it would rip things up more and not get the traction that I would expect and need. If width is not a big factor to you and a 42" wide machine will work for your operation, I think the sk650's power, torque and ease of operation are hard to beat. Did I mention that it has unvelievable power for a mini!?! Kicks my Boxer's butt and that of vermeer's 600tx too.