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My oldest cutting down his first tree...

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by TXScout, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    Hopefully, everyone here can see this

     
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  2. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    Ps, I am in no way an expert in felling. I know just enough to get me in trouble. LOL

    However, I can at least pass on what I have learned. I don’t want my boys to learn the same way I did. Just saying.
     
  3. ATpro

    ATpro ArboristSite Member

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    Don't mean to be nit picky but he should never use his nee to prop the saw up for the cut that's asking for trouble in more ways than one. I am just pointing this out so you can correct this in the future. I know maybe it's just me but I was trained to look for things like this as I trained Meatcutters off and on for 40 years and looked for danger before the accident happens and correct the problem.
     
  4. Huskybill

    Huskybill Addicted to ArboristSite

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    In felling one must clear a path to get away from a falling tree. The boy did good for his first tree. The first tree is the hardest. We learn as we go. On the job training alone is tough. At least dad is there. Next he needs to learn how to steer the tree as it falls using different horizontal angles of the back cut, more back cut on the left side of the knotch the tree goes to the right, more back cut on the right side the tree goes to the left side. You will become like babe Ruth pointing to left field where the home run is going. We become so accurate we can pile up the trees. Don’t forget safety first, plan your moves don’t rush. Make sure your felling saw is gassed up, and sharp.
     
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  5. Huskybill

    Huskybill Addicted to ArboristSite

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    The knotch was perfect for us but was a tad too high for the kid.
     
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  6. U&A

    U&A Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I agree,

    Boy and dad did a great job! As constructive criticism, using your leg to hold the saw up is dangerous. There is a BIG artery in that leg.

    All in all...
    Well done dad! Teach them safety first!


    Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM
     
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  7. ChoppyChoppy

    ChoppyChoppy Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Any reason to make the stump so tall? On most timber sales we do, we have to keep them under 12" tall.
     
  8. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    Great responses!!

    Darren actually cut the Humbult. I had to recut it to clean it up, but that was the reason for the height. I helped him with the plunge cut, but that was because he didn’t know how to do it and I was using the EDGE method. And yes, the saw was gassed and sharp.

    We did go over using the gunning sight on the saw and were we wanted the tree to go. We cut the Humbult about 20 degrees off to the left because the tree had about 20 degrees more foliage to the right. We were close and the fall split the middle. It actually fell within 6 in of where I wanted.

    Ps, after this video, the MRS let me order 2 sets of chaps.

    Thank you for the reply’s!!!
     
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  9. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    I was trying very hard to let him do it and not take over. When he put the saw on his leg, I actually grabbed the bottom of that MS 180.

    But again, thanks for the comments!!! If y’all didn’t care, you would not have said anything!!
     
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  10. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    Oh please be picky!

    I am a NRA instructor and a Chief RSO. When on the range with Boy Scouts, safety is the most important thing on the range. Just saying.

    I have watched hours and hours of video from the American Forest and the BC falling standard. I don’t have the resources with using a chain saw like I do with shooting sports, nor the experance.

    Thank you AT!
     
  11. ATpro

    ATpro ArboristSite Member

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    One thing I learned over the years is the more one uses the equipment the more skilled and confident one gets, the trick to is to not let them create bad practice along the way, that bad practice will become ingrained also and sooner or later come back to bite them.
    In my profession I did as much safety training as I did Meatcutting skill set training, to me they were one in the same. You spend all day with a knife in your hand, or your hand less that an inch from a running saw blade and there is no room for a mistake. That is the reason I trained my Meatcutters this way and I gave them the latitude to be observant to others around them. They carried these skill sets through life and pasted it on to others, in that I was proud to be a part.
     
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  12. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    AT, you said a mouthful. That is exactly why I joined this forum!!
     
  13. SteveSr

    SteveSr Addicted to ArboristSite

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    This ain't timber for sale... Cut at whatever height is comfortable for the sawyer!
     
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  14. SteveSr

    SteveSr Addicted to ArboristSite

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    It looks like you are off to a pretty good start... Definitely missing a face shield. Couldn't tell if he had glasses on. The rest of the PPE looked good. I couldn't really see the notch or the plunge cut in the video but I assume that the last cut was the "strap" cut. The strap cut can go anywhere as long as it meets or bypasses the bore cut. Once the face cut and bore is in place and the hinge set the "gun" is loaded and the trigger wood (strap) is cut. All you can do is get to your escape zone.

    I do sawyer field evaluation for a state and a national trail organization to USFS standards. I am attaching a copy of the current but soon to be replaced sawyer training handbook. It has some good stuff in it. However, for trail work and such we are now recommending open face notches preferably the high angle variety as it is harder to screw up. It is also much more forgiving of the vertical placement of the bore/back cut.

    I don't know if you have any trail organizations in your state that rely on volunteers but this would be a great way for him to get some GREAT sawyer training. However, I think he might have to wait a couple of years as I believe that you have to be at least 18 (maybe 21) to run a saw. I believe that this is an OSHA requirement.
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. ChoppyChoppy

    ChoppyChoppy Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Realize that, but doesn't even look comfortable to cut that high.
     
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  16. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    LOL. Darren is the one who cut the notch. He learned he cut the notch too high.
     
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  17. SteveSr

    SteveSr Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I was more thinking about the previously mentioned 12" height. It was obvious that the face cut was too high for him. I think the saw was a little too big/heavy for him as well.
     
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  18. U&A

    U&A Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Well said sir!!

    I like the ethics!!


    Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM
     
  19. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    First and most important. I appreciate everyone being civil!! Any comments that were made here were posted with a safety first mentality. It was noticed. Second, this is long…


    What you didn’t see in the video is the steps leading up to the felling, or after. Darren and I had been cutting wood in the wood lot for over an hour before I let him cut down the tree. I was just trying to get him comfortable with the saw. Hind sight and what I am guessing now, is that he was fatigued. That did not hit me until yesterday. When he was first working with the saw he was fine. But after an hour, it would be like me trying to limb a tree with my MS 391.


    Quite a few of you caught the real reason for the video. For one, y’all don’t know me from Tom, ****, or Harry. With my masters in music performance and my trainer certifications in BSA, I have come to appreciate the raw, uncut, unedited videos that show you the good, the bad, and the ugly… The point of this video was not to show off. The point was to let you know were I was in this facet and get feedback. That is exactly what happened. And to be honest, it was more effective. I have found a couple of things with the video I would change that this group is just being nice about and not bringing up. LOL


    AT, your comments did not fall on rocky soil. I am a certified NRA instructor and a CHIEF RSO. I have shut down a range on a BSA camp, kicked my own son off the range, and even kicked a DE, (paid scouter,) off “my” range and the Camp Ranger backed me up as I have a reputation on Scout property for safety. (Note, 99 % of Scouters are volunteers, DE’s are employed thru BSA. Kicking a DE off the range would be like firing your Forman on the job sight and your boss backing you up on it… Just saying…)


    U&A, your classic “oreo cookie” feedback was duly noted and appreciated. Well done with your comments! But I am going to use this point to Segway to the next.


    The comment on the “triangle of death” aria of the human anatomy is noted. When I teach the “Axe Yard,” I put my boys on their knees when splitting wood with an axe for this very reason. That goes back to the good, bad, ugly, and the reason I grabbed the saw with my left hand.


    Steve, wow… you are awesome!! I would love to pick your brain for a while. Yes, the boy was wearing eye and ear protection. I actually saved the section of the tree you are asking questions about. I will try to post a picture of it this evening. Feedback is a gift.


    I have tried to volunteer, but “I” couldn’t find anything. What I found is the state parks will let you volunteer, but they want you to have a fellers cert to do so. Another great Segway point.


    I am not going to say that there is a lot of conflicting information, but there really is. I get the face shield concept. (It also would promote the helmet no one has brought up yet. Just saying…) The BC falling stander info uses the face shield. The US wildland fire instills eye and ear, not a face shield.


    My point is that I have spent a lot of time researching safety. Stihl has a small segment, Husqvarna has a wonderful how to, USFS has some information, and BC falling standard has an entire series. But I really have to be carful on what I watch as I really don’t know if Billy Bob is doing it proper on youtube…


    That being said, it is the little things. Until I watched someone make an old school square Humbult, I didn’t fully grasp on the true facet/function of cutting under notches while liming. It goes back to the difference between knowledge and practical application.


    Friends, that is the reason I got tired of being a lurker and joined this forum. I apricate all the feedback so far.


    V/R


    Duane
     
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  20. TXScout

    TXScout ArboristSite Lurker

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    There was a clear path, and thank you for saying something about that. The grass was too high for you to see it. That section is actually the trail head to the little park we have cleaned up in the bottom.

    I didn’t know that about steering. However that makes sense. Less holding wood means that it will naturally pull to the other side when it falls, yes?
     

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