NCB 175 settings

[92utownxh]

I've been keeping the thermostat in the house at just 68. My grandpa built the house in 1986. It's fairly well insulated except for the crawl space and single pane windows. I plan to replace most of the windows and exterior doors this spring and insulate the crawlspace. The crawlspace is vented. I don't know anything about in floor radiant heat.

The wood I'm burning is fairly well seasoned but not covered. It's a mix of oak, cherry, silver maple, and hackberry. Not the best wood, but I would think it should do ok.

I've been experimenting with different water temps and 150 is plenty to heat the house and water. I've tried hotter, but that just uses more wood. If the outside temp is above 30 it will got almost 24 hours, but any colder and the wood usage goes way up.

 

[92utownxh]

I fill it completely full with as much wood as I can. Its a mix of rounds and slits, decent size.

 

[applefarmer]

I think you have found a lot of your problem. Single pain windows plus unisulated duct in a crawlspace that is close to same temp as outside would be a huge draw in these temps. When you are insulating next spring make sure you do a good job at the rim joist. Also check your attic, its pretty cheap to have 14" celulose blown in. Just a note it has been my expenence my wood useage almost doubles when daytime temps fall from 35ish to 15ish. Good luck I am a strong believer in heating the indoors not the outdoors!

 

[atlarge54]

Your crawl space has open vents? I'd be down there right now blocking those babies off---the warm air from the furnace should handle any normal moisture, unless your home sets in a puddle.

There's a lot of burning season left what is stopping you from doing the insulation now?

I didn't know much about floor radiant, so I just started reading about it. Ask anyone who has it, the comfort is great. You've already got the biggest expense (boiler) out of the way. You should start a new thread on floor radiant BEFORE you insulate your floors.

Did I get that right you can FILL YOUR OWB AND IT'S EMPTY IN 8HRS? What were your previous heat bills?

What does your attic look like? The previous poster who mentioned blown cellulose was spot on. Once you get the attic prepped so you don't block venting at the edges, the rest of the job is a breeze. The boy and I just blew in 50 bags in my shop attic. The job took about 5 hours and cost about $300. Blown cellulose in the attic has to be about the best $$$$$ value when it comes to improving heat loss.

 

[92utownxh]

Last night I stuffed it full with 10" cherry rounds and splits to fill the gaps. It was 5 degrees when I went out this morning. After 9 hours there was barely anything left.

Last we only used about 600 gallons of propane with the house at 67. When I told my dealer that he said I should very happy with the wood usage. The main reason I went with the owb is because I have 40 acres of woods and I plan to live here forever. I'm in my 20's and my grandpa built the house.

I'm going to insulate the crawl space as soon as I have the money. It won't take much though. Most of the crawl space is dirt with plastic over it. One section is about 5 feet tall with concrete since the house in on a hill. That is where the water heater, furnace, and well tank are.Since all the water lines and duct work are exposed, should I insulate the block walls of the crawl space from the floor to the ground? I've read different opinions on whether to do the floor or the walls of the crawl.

There really isn't and attic to the house. There is a vault ceiling with a moderate slope which was the old roof. Then a new roof was added on top of that with a steeper slope. It is just air in between the two. I asked my grandpa about the insulation in the house a while back, and he said at the time, 1986, the house was well insulated. The snow never melts off the roof. There is an upstairs with just 2 bedrooms. The ceiling is just separated from the roof by 2x6s and insulation. This is the roof that could be improved, but it would be very difficult.

One of the things I'm having problems with is the blower and damper on the owb. There is a slide that controls the airflow from the blower to the ashpan. I don't know how far open to go with it. My dealer didn't know that was there on the new model and he has one. It's a 146 cfm blower and in the owners manual it says to start and the smallest opening and increase it if need. It also says to not exceed a flue draft of 0.1000" W.C. whatever that means. I've messed with the damper and the water temperature, and I'm going crazy trying find out what works and uses the least amount of wood.

 

[atlarge54]

Concerning insulating the block wall you need to understand "vapor barrier" . Actually that applies to any insulation. Look at a cold drink on a hot humid summer day. Where hot and cold transition you can get wet areas that can rot or create mold.

What does your boiler lineset look like? How long is it? If it has the foil bubble insulation it's junk. At 3'-4' deep it could be waterlogged. A wet lineset can eat you alive.

You're in your 20's and plan to stay there, it's not possible for me to emphasize how desirable floor radiant can be. When your feet are warm it's easy to feel warm. When your feet are cold it's pretty tough to feel warm.

You can play with that flap on your boiler all you want but that's NOT where your problems are.

If I lived closer I'd be over to help you. Do your single pane windows even have storm windows? It's nice to know you're young so you can get some of these things right and enjoy them

 

[92utownxh]

I see what you saying about the insulation and the block walls. I know a bit about vabor barriers and that but not enough. You think I would be better off to insulate between the floor joists? Then I would need to insulate the duct work too, right? I really don't think I would do the in floor radiant anytime soon. I looked at some and it looks like they are at least a dollar per square foot.

As far as the owb water lines go, they are not water logged. The house is on the side of a hill at the top of it. The owb is about 60 feet from the house. Under the house they only have to go about 10 more feet to the side arm and furnace plenum. The exposed lines under the house are insulated as well. The pex I have might be the kind you are talking about though. My dealer got it for me and said it was great stuff. He used it for his too. It has 2 1" pex lines with a 3/4" water supply line. The lines are wrapped in foam insulation with a foil covering inside a 6 inch black corrugated pipe. I was told it has a R value of 19.

Thanks for your help.

 

[atlarge54]

Are you looking at electric floor radiant like they put in bathrooms at $1 sq/ft?I'm talking about loops of pex tubing with aluminum diffusers under your floor which are then insulated from below.
A typical guideline would 1 linear ft of tubing for each sq ft of floor. In my case where I had to work around existing ductwork I could only get about 800' of tubing installed to heat 1000sq ft (I have a 250sq ft unheated comb. mud laundry enrtance). The pex is about $80 for a 250 ft roll. I made the aluminum diffusers out of 6" aluminum flashing probably $70. I used a fancy manifold which was nearly $400, if I were doing it again I'd use the cheap soldered units. A 1" mixing valve (like what you SHOULD have on your water heater) $75. Taco 009 pump $175. Google "staple up radiant".
On your insulation question. Yes the floor joists must be insulated no matter what you do. I did also insulate the crawl space block walls with 1" foam on the inside. I don"t think I can safely recommend you do that because of a potential for mold.
If I were in your shoes I would open the air adjuster to its maximum opening and disconnect the blower. You can't hurt anything and if it won't heat that would tell me your wood is wet or your lineset or both. You DON'T have to blow on a fire to get heat. When your boiler is operating just look at the heat going out the chimney.
You are aware that I'm probably having the same weather as you, right? My house is smaller but won't win any energy awards. I keep it about 71-72 during the day and 68-69 at night. My wood is DRY, DRY, DRY and it isn't Hickory, Oak, Locust or Osage. I filled the boiler 26 HOURS AGO AND HAVEN'T EVEN OPENED THE DOOR TO LOOK AT THE FIRE. I'm hoping to add wood in 22 hours, we'll see this is an experiment.
You wouldn't be the first person who installed corrugated lineset and had it get wet. Let's hope like h*ll your linesets aren't wet.
Keep your chin up you're in the learning curve so hang on tight.

 

[92utownxh]

I don't know if I want go with the radiant now. I have too many other projects to do. I did see the pex stapled up below the floor. I think I was looking a kit though.

How do I disconnect the blower, but still have the flap open to allow air into the firebox? I may not try that until next weekend when I'm around to watch it. What will that tell me? If it uses less wood and if it can keep up. The wood I'm burning is well seasoned, but I don't have it covered. It sits out in the open sun. I already have most of next year's wood cut and stacked.

Today it got up to about 28 and was sunny. So far after 10 hours there is still a decent amount of wood left in the boiler. Blower hasn't cycled on in several hours and the fire is just smoldering. Seems like when it gets below 20 degrees outside it uses a whole lot more wood and won't last long without reloading it.

I hope nothing is wrong with the lineset. Really don't want to have to do that again. How can I tell if it is wet? I was really impressed with the boiler until it got really cold at the end of December. I've gone through a bit over a cord of wood in the last month, which isn't bad I guess, but I'm getting terrible burn times. What boiler do you have atlarge54? About how often does yours cycle and what are you set points? Thanks for all your help.

 

[atlarge54]

I bought a Global Hydronics boiler that had a junk SS water jacket for $300 which I wrapped with 300' of 3/4" copper tubing. I think the controls are similar to yours. When the aquastat (mine is set at about 140 deg) on a call for heat a solenoid opens an air port and turns on the blower. I simply followed the wires from the blower motor and disconnected the wire nuts and put the wire nuts back on the hot leads so they won't short out. If you have any doubts about your electrical skills don't touch anything.
The cycling is dependent on the weather, hard for me to give you an answer on that. As far as this burn, I couldn't resist looking in the boiler. After over 27 hours of burning, all the wood in the back half of the boiler is in its original shape. After running this thing a few years one observation I've made is that the amount of heat in the coals is amazing.
I burnt some dead elm last year that was standing dead without bark, cut in October and stored in a garage until January. Even though it appeared dry, to me it was wet and just didn't burn right. I've even burnt unseasoned mulberry because I didn't want to handle it again. There's a big difference between burning wood and getting the most out of wood.
Good luck

 

[92utownxh]

It sounds like I have some places to start now. Even though the wood I'm burning seems dry it may still have moisture. Last night I loaded it with some junk wood that wouldn't stack that I had piled up from cutting for next year. It was a mix of green and standing dead twisted pieces and crotches. It burned for about 10 hours. So this tells me the other stuff must have some moisture in it too. I'll burn some other that I've had stacked for over a year and get through this year. I have a lot of what I'll need for next year stcked up already. I'll let it season until the end of summer outside in the sun and then cover it up. That should help me a lot.

I'll insulate the floor of the house as soon as possible and see what that does for me. What R value should I use for that? Any suggestions? I'm replacing several windows and doors this spring as well. I'll get 30% of the cost of that back on my taxes next year so I'm definately going to do everything soon.

Thanks for all the help. I'll keep you posted on how the improvements help. Also, does a taller chimney help burn times any? I don't have anything now.

 

[atlarge54]

I don't think I'd use less than r-19.

Now are you prepared to get the chimney 5' above the peak of any building within 150' of the boiler? If not then plan on shutting down your boiler by Sept 2011.

You'd better be getting the ear of some of your elected officials.

 

[92utownxh]

I was thinking R-19 would be the way to go. I was also looking at the duct insulation with foil on both sides.

I saw that proposed legislation for Indiana. I'm already 5' above any house within 150' except my own house. I only have one neighbor and they are over the hill from me. I'm good as long as I don't have to get the chimney 5' about my own house. I don't think I do.

 

[atlarge54]

You've got to be 5' above your house too.

Stay away from the foil bubble type of insulation. I used some on my system and you can feel the heat coming through it. The 1/2" foam with foil, you can't feel the heat.

 

[fordboy2]

we purchased a ncb-175 this season and I am also unhappy with my burn times. Did you ever figure out what works best for you?

 

[92utownxh]

I have the slide damper on the blower opened to 2.5 notches. Hope that makes sense. It builds a good, hot fire. For the water temperature, I have it set so the blower turns on 155 and shuts off at 165. I've thought about bumping it up to 165-175 just to see what it does, but I haven't yet. It keeps up just fine with where it is now. I easily get at least 12 hour burn times. I burn about 5-6 full cords of wood per year from the beginning of October to sometime in April. I'm heating my house and hot water. The first year I struggled with not having good, seasoned wood. Now everything I burn has been cut, split, and stacked for at least a year. I really like it now. If you have any questions just ask. It took a year or 2 to figure it all out.

 

[fordboy2]

Ok I think that is about where mine is currently set at. I will check for sure. I think some of my situation right now is I am burning a load of slab wood and the stuff burns like paper. I am lucky to get a 6-8 hour burn time and that's just jamming it full. Anyone moved the blower switch around to the front on one of these. It's a real pain to go to the rear to turn it off and you get tired of getting smoked out when it's on. Also did you ad any stove pipe to your chimney and if so why.

 

[92utownxh]

It's definitely a pain having the fan switch and temperature in the back of the unit. My routine is to open the back, check the water temp and make sure the blower isn't on, then fill it with wood. I do have an extra 3' piece of chimney. It's not really needed, but I like getting the smoke up a bit. Did you add any to your chimney?

 

[fordboy2]

No I have not added any chimney yet. But thinking I will. I may move that switch to the front as I think this spring I am going to put a cover over the front area to keep the wood dry. Well see I guess so far I have to say I am disappointed in the boiler and would not buy another one. But in to deep to turn back now, just gonna have to fine tune it I guess.

 

[artbaldoni]

I have added a piece of standard galvanized smoke pipe to mine, 5', I think. It just slips inside the pipe on the stove. No worries. It's cheap so I just replace it when it rusts out.

I usually don't even shut the fan off when filling. It's not that smokey.

I consistantly get 12-14 hour burns @ 20° ambient with a 3/4 load of dry wood. Heating 2800 sq' and DHW. At 40° ambient and up I can get 24-48 hours on a load. At 20° and down I have to pack the wood in to get the same 12-14 hour burn time. Run the stove at 175° on/185° off.

I replaced the circ pump after 2 years of service. No other problems. It's been burning since Dec 2010 without stop.

I love my NCB-175!