near balance point rigging

[Blakesmaster]

Question, how many of you can tie up your boots properly, by using the "loggers tie"?

You can't just jump in here making claims of groundbreaking new technique without a video, Clearance. Psh.

 

[Blakesmaster]

don't know that one clearance..

looking at the vid again (sorry but I like the music), what do you see....some tip tied (butt heavy), some mid tied to get them to hinge and turn into an open space (not in reality but just for Murph's vid) and .....drum roll....the big premise ....some "near balance point tied"...wow, just think of it.

Any whoo, it seems in this vid and the last one that when the pieces were mid or balance point tied they were lowered so the climber doesn't get skewered by the butt. So.....he cuts the branch and the groundie lowers while he is cutting so it hinges over safely .....my question is...

why even have a mid tie in(balance point) ....you may just as well have butt tied it at that point. They both hinge over in the same path.

If the rope is mid point tied it helps to hold the branch in the same position long enough for it to swing clear of obstacles utilizing the hinge. Sheesh, this is hard to describe over a computer 9 beers deep but let me try.

The key is still the ground guy, he is the one that keeps the branch suspended till the point that the hinge breaks and then quickly let's it run to remove the climber from danger. It only follows thew same path as a butt tied limb if the groundman lets it run from the start.

 

[treemandan]

Shoes? I guess I am just a sleazy utility hack, I wear lineman boots.

Question, how many of you can tie up your boots properly, by using the "loggers tie"?

yer supposed to tie em?

 

[treevet]

If the rope is mid point tied branch in the same position longit helps to hold the enough for it to swing clear of obstacles utilizing the hinge. Sheesh, this is hard to describe over a computer 9 beers deep but let me try.

If you read my post, I included the mid tie to turn the piece. His point was made that balance point tie in clears the ground better and other trees in the area. Then he proceeds to lower the branch downward (on some cuts) to clear the climber. My point is at that point it is the exact same thing as a butt tie.

The key is still the ground guy, he is the one that keeps the branch suspended till the point that the hinge breaks and then quickly let's it run to remove the climber from danger. It only follows thew same path as a butt tied limb if the groundman lets it run from the start.

[/QUOTE]

You are not making any point here (must be the 9 beers, I don't drink).

If the gm holds the piece if it is mid tied then the butt is going to be a threat kicking up at him. (but this is where it gets the clearance of the other trees and ground)

If the gm folds the branch to protect the climber it ends up in the same place as a butt tie and follows the same path not giving more ground clearance and not giving more later clearance to obstacles.

 

[treemandan]

I think Peter should have went up there and did soemthing with the dead top that looked like almost killed him but I think that was Dan climbing and taking some nice shots out of the oak .

 

[treevet]

ps

nice illustration....hic....:biggrinbounce2:

 

[Blakesmaster]

If you read my post, I included the mid tie to turn the piece. His point was made that balance point tie in clears the ground better and other trees in the area. Then he proceeds to lower the branch downward (on some cuts) to clear the climber. My point is at that point it is the exact same thing as a butt tie.

You are not making any point here (must be the 9 beers, I don't drink).

If the gm holds the piece if it is mid tied then the butt is going to be a threat kicking up at him. (but this is where it gets the clearance of the other trees and ground)

If the gm folds the branch to protect the climber it ends up in the same place as a butt tie and follows the same path not giving more ground clearance and not giving more later clearance to obstacles.[/QUOTE]

There's less upward pressure on the hinge if the branch is rigged at it's balance point allowing your hinge to remain effective long after it would have broken without support from the rope being tied at or near it's balance point. I wouldn't try to swing a big branch horizontally without a rope. If you rope the butt and take out all the slack ( grcs, or otherwise ) there'd be way to much up pressure on the hinge. Tie only the tip and there's too much down pressure. But if you can get as close to balance point as possible the hinge has fewer forces acting on it and can do it's job better. Wait. Why am I explaining this to you, TV, you should know this ####. I just laugh 'cause it's nothing groundbreaking to me but based on your responses, is it?

 

[Blakesmaster]

If the gm holds the piece if it is mid tied then the butt is going to be a threat kicking up at him.

Yes, it will be a threat and that's why the groundie has GOT to be good. He has to see when the branch has passed the obstacle and let it run before the hinge snaps the holding fibers and puts the butt in the climbers face.

 

[treevet]

There's less upward pressure on the hinge if the branch is rigged at it's balance point allowing your hinge to remain effective long after it would have broken without support from the rope being tied at or near it's balance point. I wouldn't try to swing a big branch horizontally without a rope. If you rope the butt and take out all the slack ( grcs, or otherwise ) there'd be way to much up pressure on the hinge. Tie only the tip and there's too much down pressure. But if you can get as close to balance point as possible the hinge has fewer forces acting on it and can do it's job better. Wait. Why am I explaining this to you, TV, you should know this ####. I just laugh 'cause it's nothing groundbreaking to me but based on your responses, is it?

Again Blakes, you are talking turning a piece when what I am contesting is not his turning premise (who doesn't know that one?) but rather the premise that it will fold within other obstacles (other tree/house) when balance point tied and the gm lowers it (straight down) to protect the climber. He also said it gives more ground clearance when in fact it does not.

You had 9 beers?....I am wasting my time you aren't playing with a full deck.

 

[oldirty]

Shoes? I guess I am just a sleazy utility hack, I wear lineman boots.

Question, how many of you can tie up your boots properly, by using the "loggers tie"?

i dont know the logger tie but i swear by the better bow. love tying that for laces.

 

[treemandan]

Yes, it will be a threat and that's why the groundie has GOT to be good. He has to see when the branch has passed the obstacle and let it run before the hinge snaps the holding fibers and puts the butt in the climbers face.

Yeah which is why the job was impressive.

 

[treevet]

Yes, it will be a threat and that's why the groundie has GOT to be good. He has to see when the branch has passed the obstacle and let it run before the hinge snaps the holding fibers and puts the butt in the climbers face.

"The groundie has to be good" because some dumb a$$ is doing a "balance point" tie in for no good reason.

 

[treevet]

Yeah which is why the job was impressive.

what impressed you about that job? Looked like all routine stuff to me with some totally unnecessary tie offs included.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Again Blakes, you are talking turning a piece when what I am contesting is not his turning premise (who doesn't know that one?) but rather the premise that it will fold within other obstacles (other tree/house) when balance point tied and the gm lowers it (straight down) to protect the climber. He also said it gives more ground clearance when in fact it does not.

You had 9 beers?....I am wasting my time you aren't playing with a full deck.

Well, it's actually ten now. lol. I see, we were arguing different points. I was a bit confused I had to explain something like that to you. I can't imagine the purpose of balance rigging a limb that's intended to go straight down.

 

[treevet]

Well, it's actually ten now. lol. I see, we were arguing different points. I was a bit confused I had to explain something like that to you. I can't imagine the purpose of balance rigging a limb that's intended to go straight down.

That's totally my point Blakes..

 

[Blakesmaster]

Yeah which is why the job was impressive.

I still wouldn't call it impressive. Relatively easy for a ground guy to do, they just have to know what's up, or be able to listen when you tell them what's up. It helps if they're not on a cell phone, smoking a cig, whistlin' at the ladies, etc.

 

[treemandan]

what impressed you about that job? Looked like all routine stuff to me with some totally unnecessary tie offs included.

That he didn't get smacked in the face of course.

 

[treevet]

That he didn't get smacked in the face of course.

But if he did we coulda quoted "Murphy's Law" and made the video a timeless classic.

 

[treemandan]

But if he did we coulda quoted "Murphy's Law" and made the video a timeless classic.

But he didn't and he took it the way he wanted which was the way he could. Sent out some nice shots. The one on the inside left was sweet coming out like that and he had some nice big flippers. ground guys looked like they had it good too.

 

[Adkpk]

Question, how many of you can tie up your boots properly, by using the "loggers tie"?

I can.

But what I'd like to say is, must be nice to have your climber sing to you while your lowering branches for him.

Good vid Murph, Thanks!