New Oregon Narrow Kerf Chain and SpeedCut Guide Bars

[Philbert]

Finally got a 20" SpeedCut bar for my Husqvarna 353


Compared the weight with the OEM bar: saves 5 ounces, which is about 18%:


Bar groove is slightly longer, and has angled oil holes, vs the slightly larger diameter, conventional holes on the Husky bar.


The bar has an unusual, dull, almost rough finish. Have to mount it on the saw and see how it affects the overall balance and compare flexibility - my only real concern with narrow kerf bars.

Philbert

 

[Franny K]

There are a whole bunch of these threads.
Oregon speed cut is currently purchasing a spot in a changing spot just to the right of the Arboristsite name (desktop computer view)
If you click on it it takes you to a link which among other things has a video comparing 95txl, Stihl .325rm and 95vpx. They do 2 diagonal and 3 bucking cuts with a 50cc Stihl. Claim they chose the comparable Stihl product. Times are 1.11, 1.15 and 1.28. They could of course have equipped the saw with the 63 class picco chain and 7 tooth drive.



If nothing else no sense in getting some of the new stuff if you already have the old NK at least for speed.

 

[PDXchain]

Why Can't We Be Friends? - 3

Visual Differences

Clearly some cosmetic differences. The 'Oregon' logo almost appears to be etched in, instead of stamped. The witness marks on the new chain have a different appearance, and continue down along the side plate. The embossed tie strap is more of a flattened 'X' shape than linear. The 95TXL has oil retention grooves stamped into both sides of the drive links, instead of the holes. Bluing is more noticeable. As mentioned above, the shape of the low kickback drive link bumper looks more like those on the 95VPX chain.

Hook / Grind / Shape

The 95TXL has a more pronounced hook angle than the other chains, and the grind is taken deeper into the gullet. This is consistent with their comments that it is more aggressive 'out of the box'. Not sure how this chain would compare if each of the others was ground identically. There are even noticeable differences in grind between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains, which may be a function of different manufacturing dates, or different specs by Husky?

Oregon is recommending a 35/55°/10° grinder setting for the 95TXL, but seems to be encouraging users to file, in order to maintain the factory grind. Specs for the 95VPX were 30°/55°/10°.

The variation in the backs of each cutter is interesting. Note how the Carlton cutters are almost square, while the others have different degrees of clipping.

It is hard to tell if the radius of curve along the edge of these semi-chisel chains varies by much. I would need more precision measuring ability than I have. There may be significant differences in many cutter angles that are significant in controlled tests, but not obvious to my eyes.

Cutter Length

Cutter length also varies among the four samples shown, with the Carlton and Husqvarna chains being around 0.020" longer. Again, some of this may be due to different manufacturing dates, or it may be due to the grind; especially the differences between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains.

Significant?

Oregon has put a lot of time and money into this new chain, so I have to assume that there were significant differences under controlled testing. I hope to try some of this side-by-side with the 95VP chain at an upcoming GTG in a few weeks, to see if it makes a practical difference for general cutting. Since 95TXL will be replacing 95VPX, it is what we will be buying down the road.

Philbert

The TXL chain is ground on a CBN grinder with a special grinding wheel. By looking at the wide gullet you can see that the wheel comes in and grinds the bottom of the gullet first, then it sweeps up to form the radius that tangents with the hook angle. If they are recommending 55 degrees on the head angle, they are probably actually grinding these at 50 degrees but they don't want to specify that in the filing instructions because everyone is used to a 60 degree head angle, and they don't want to confuse people. From what I have been told, this chain was a carrot on a stick developed to try and keep the Husky business. Their bread and butter was supplying .325" semi chain to Husky, and they are really concerned about Husky producing their own chain. I haven't cut with the new husky chain but from what I hear it performs very well. Well enough that the guys at Oregon were pretty disappointed that Husky could actually produce a good chain. I have a loop of the TXL chain but I haven't cut with it yet either.

You can bet that they tested the ever loving crap out of the chain before going to market. They will delay a chain project to squeeze 1.5% more performance from a chain. The kid that worked on the chain is a very bright engineer. Kind of a Dexter's laboratory type. They have got rid of, or reassigned most of the seasoned engineers there to replace with young guys that like watching anime cartoons, driving the little cars that sound like bumble bees, and playing dungeons and dragons on the weekends. I don't think any of them have ever even fell a tree. If the TXL is not low-kick certified yet, they are working on it. They will play with it until they can achieve certification while losing as little performance as possible.

As far as the bar goes, they have been working on a lightweight bar core for years. Their aluminum replaceable nose bar is a big improvement for felling. Making a 16" laminated bar lighter than it already is seems a little odd, but they have so much time and effort into the bar project they probably figured it would be a good marriage to combine projects. They have a difficult time coming up with new products over there. I don't see a quick payback on this one because it is NK, and Husky is producing a satisfactory chain on their own.

 

[Franny K]

If the TXL is not low-kick certified yet, they are working on it. They will play with it until they can achieve certification while losing as little performance as possible.

.......... I don't see a quick payback on this one because it is NK, and Husky is producing a satisfactory chain on their own.

Looks like there is already the video I found back on post #154. I do not know about the payback stuff they seem to be spending on advertising for the new speedcut line.

You seem pretty knowledgable about this product. What sort bar life (or bar life with a nice tight groove) improvement is gained with the new drive link's oil distributing feature.

I have 56dl and 78 dl loops of vintage H30 chain and bars in 095 to match if someone wants to bring over a 50 or 55cc saw and some of the new improved chain. Also have some realistic stuff to cut with a little walking. trim oak near the main stem type of testing. Neither the fueledIowa youtube or this one here seem realistic for an evaluation for general use. Maybe for firewood cross cutting.

 

[PDXchain]

Looks like there is already the video I found back on post #154. I do not know about the payback stuff they seem to be spending on advertising for the new speedcut line.

You seem pretty knowledgable about this product. What sort bar life (or bar life with a nice tight groove) improvement is gained with the new drive link's oil distributing feature.

I have 56dl and 78 dl loops of vintage H30 chain and bars in 095 to match if someone wants to bring over a 50 or 55cc saw and some of the new improved chain. Also have some realistic stuff to cut with a little walking. trim oak near the main stem type of testing. Neither the fueledIowa youtube or this one here seem realistic for an evaluation for general use. Maybe for firewood cross cutting.

Bar life is a difficult one to predict. In theory, the serrations seem like they would retain lube well but realistically it is almost impossible to determine how much. The dimples like Stihl uses actually provide more lubrication because the oil is trapped in the dimples. Same with the hole in the drive links. The oil gets trapped and isn't influenced by centrifugal force. Simple observation will tell you that the serrations should provide more oil. Equating that to bar life is difficult because of the many variables involved. Nothing oils better than a clear bar oil hole and oil slot on the saw mount. This should always provide more than enough oil to the chain and bar.

 

[CoreyB]

I have been cutting every weekend with the 16" .325nk speed cut bar and 95txl chain as well as the 20 in versa cut 3/8 bar

 

[CoreyB]

I have also been grinding at least two txl chains a week. I can get them to cut faster but not as smooth as stock. They do seem to hold an edge well. And the 35-55-10 is not an exact match

 

[Philbert]

In theory, the serrations seem like they would retain lube well . . . Equating that to bar life is difficult because of the many variables involved.

I always assumed that the extra oil helped more to maintain chain drive link life (softer metal) than bar groove life (harder metal).

Philbert

 

[PDXchain]

I always assumed that the extra oil helped more to maintain chain drive link life (softer metal) than bar groove life (harder metal).

Philbert

Actually, the bar groove (below .100" from the hardened outer rail), is about Hrc 46 max. The chain drive link is about Hrc 49-55 depending on the manufacturer. Anytime you can carry more oil through bar grooves you will extend the life of the chain and bar both. Just looking at the different oil assist features on saw chain we all assume they will work, and probably do to some extent. The problem is that a lot of the oil is thrown off at the nose due to centrifugal force. Any oil is better than no oil

 

[Philbert]

Been a while . . .

I got the bar a while back, but have been using other saws, so no chance to really test these bars and chains. Sorry for the delay.

I have used narrow kerf (NK) .325 bars and chain on my Husqvarna 353 since I bought it - that was what came with it, and I like the way it cut.

Supposedly, this narrower kerf stuff takes a smaller bite, which makes better use of your saw's power. H30 or Oregon Type 95 chain, which probably came out of the same factory, until Husqvarna started making their own bars and chains recently.

The only concern I had about NK was that the bar seemed a bit more flexible than a standard .325 bar, which was more noticable with the longer (20") length bar. So, when Oregon said that these new SpeedCut bars were stiffer, as well as lighter, that caught my attention. But how do you evaluate that claim?

At a secret laboratory . . .

. . . at an undisclosed location, very near to my garage, I tried to develop a somewhat objective comparison using 'indigenous materials'. I assumed that a saw powerhead that uses these bars might weigh up to about 15 pounds. And I realized that I cared more about the relative stiffness and weight of the bars, as opposed to some standard measurement. Using instruments carefully certified by 'Calibrate This!' I devised the following comparisons. All guide bars are standard, Husqvarna small mount, laminated, (non-replaceable) sprocket nose bars.



1. Weight

- (? unbranded) 16" nominal length: 21 ounces total weight
- Oregon SpeedCut 20" nominal length: 23.5 ounces
- Husqvarna branded, 20" nominal length; 28.6 ounces

Pretty clear that the 20" SpeedCut bar is closer in total weight to the 16" traditional bar than the traditional 20" bar.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

2. Angle of the Dangle

Weight is not everything. It has more of an effect on longer bars, especially out towards the tip, due to leverage. So I wanted to see what effect the lighter bar had on saw balance.

I suspended the 353 (empty tanks) from an overhead beam using a couple of ropes, so that it could pivot, and find its own balance point. I attached a carpenter's angle gauge to the only flat spot I could find (rear hand guard) with zip-ties and twisty-ties, to get relative angle measurements (yeah, I could do better in a 'real' laboratory, but this is what I had). I measured:

Power Head Only (PHO) - 14°


Power Head with 16" conventional, NK bar - 11°


Power Head with 20" SpeedCut NK bar - 3°


PowerHead with 20" conventional bar - 0°


A bit surprising, but the lighter weight SpeedCut bar did not have as much effect on saw balance, as the total weight numbers might suggest. 8 degrees difference between the 16" conventional NK bar and the 20" SpeedCut, but only 3 degrees difference between the SpeedCut and the conventional NK 20" bar. Probably even less noticable with a full tank of fuel? Yes, the total weight of the saw and bar combination is still 5 ounces lighter, but that is not that a significant percent. This is why reduced weight guide bars are typically only found in longer lengths (28 inches and above?).

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

3. Flexibility

Again, I was interested in relative flexibility between the SpeedCut and conventional NK bar, so I used each as a reference for the other. I clamped both 20" bars to a sturdy table at the end of the bar adjustment slot (slightly longer on the SpeedCut bar, so I used that point for both tests).


I used 15 pounds of weight, hung just behind the nose sprocket rivet farthest from the tip (same on both bars), and measured the separation. Flipped the bars over and tried it again.


The SpeedCut bar flexed only about 1-5/8 inches: the conventional NK bar was closer to 1-7/8 inches. About a 1/4 inch difference.


So this SpeedCut bar does appear to be lighter and stiffer. The stiffness is likely to be more noticable with narrow kerf chain users. The reduced weight will probably be more of a factor with longer length bars used with larger pitch chain.

Philbert

 

[Franny K]

3. Flexibility

Again, I was interested in relative flexibility between the SpeedCut and conventional NK bar, so I used each as a reference for the other. I clamped both 20" bars to a sturdy table at the end of the bar adjustment sl.........
Philbert

What code are you calling conventional? Oregon had two grades. Ml and mp perhaps.

 

[Philbert]

What code are you calling conventional? Oregon had two grades. Ml and mp perhaps.

One bar (16") has no printed markings, and non standard stampings. It may or may not have been made by Oregon. Looks well finished.
The other (20") is a Husqvarna OEM bar, which was presumably made by Oregon (10+ years ago?).
So by 'conventional', I mean a well-made, NK bar, made from 3 steel laminations, spot welded together, versus some type of hollow core or other reduced weight bar.

Philbert

 

[CoreyB]

3. Flexibility

Again, I was interested in relative flexibility between the SpeedCut and conventional NK bar, so I used each as a reference for the other. I clamped both 20" bars to a sturdy table at the end of the bar adjustment slot (slightly longer on the SpeedCut bar, so I used that point for both tests).
View attachment 590679

I used 15 pounds of weight, hung just behind the nose sprocket rivet farthest from the tip (same on both bars), and measured the separation. Flipped the bars over and tried it again.
View attachment 590680

The SpeedCut bar flexed only about 1-5/8 inches: the conventional NK bar was closer to 1-7/8 inches. About a 1/4 inch difference.
View attachment 590684 View attachment 590681

So this SpeedCut bar does appear to be lighter and stiffer. The stiffness is likely to be more noticable with narrow kerf chain users. The reduced weight will probably be more of a factor with longer length bars used with larger pitch chain.

Philbert

Good stuff!

 

[Philbert]

*Correction*

Note that in Post #151 (above) the angle with the 16" conventional, NK bar should be 6° - sorry, but I cannot go back and edit this post. This also makes the impact of the lighter weight bar slightly more significant.

Philbert

 

[stubnail67]

Ok i tried to read the whole thread.. long story short i bought a cs490 it was recon at depot super cheap had to be a floor model brand new 20 inch bar and chain no dirt any where says fuel cap replacement....anyways it seems like 20 inch even with this narrow kerf smaller bar would be a bit much.. what would the right bar and chain narrow kerf 18 inch be?i have a few new ones in a box i bought when i had my pp295.... cant rember the mount but i think it was the same as the old echo cs 440....i also have some 16 inch as well still brand new....just have to find them....would ko95 work? to bad you could not use an a041 and lopro 3/8s and change the rim.... sure the studs are to big....let me know who has switched it to an 18 inch version and what chain you used and how you like it....thanks

 

[stubnail67]

If I was going to run 20" on 50cc under saws. stihl PS PS3 3/8LP picco is the ticket or for you semi chisel fans just pick any other chain in 3/8LP.

echo 4500 45cc 3/8 7T with 20" picco


View attachment 467673

what mount was that? and would it fit the cs 490?

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Cant remember off hand. All in a thread on CR

 

[stubnail67]

Cant remember off hand. All in a thread on CR

ok i will go check ot out under your echo section