New Setup 3/8 or 404?

[SierraMtns]

Hello Guys,

I am looking at getting a Husky 3120xp and will be running a 50" or 52" bar on it. My current setup is a 395 xp and 36" and 42" bar in 3/8.

Is it worth staying with 3/8's chain to be able to run those bars on the 3120 or should switch to 404?

Thanks

 

[psuiewalsh]

Seems you would be more flexible with all 3/8 esp if you spin your own. The few bars I have seen 50" or bigger have been .404. so not sure if there is a better clearance in the cut or something.

 

[Walkdog]

I run .404 on my 3120xp and think it feels right for such a burly saw. Have heard experienced folks say it cuts straighter at longer lengths. I use a 32” bar for occasional bucking and milling smaller logs, and a 60” cannon bar for the big slabs. For me, at least, the 60” bar makes the saw neigh impossible to control starting slabbing cuts if I don’t use the ladder every pass.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

S M there is a big difference from 3/8'' to 404, but a larger saw can pull both. 3/8'' works better for a faster moving more modern saw like the Stihl MS 660. The 404 works better on a Stihl 070 because it pulls hard and slower. Can they be interchanged yes, but not always a wise move. The 404 is a all around bigger chain that has little bigger teeth that stay sharp longer. And it takes a little more pop to pull it it. One advantage for milling is that it follows the bar a little better because it is bigger and thus it will not wonder as much as a 3/8''. On a longer bar as you describe I would consider the 404 if you are very confident that you have enough power and your chain speed can be managed. Thanks

 

[andy]

Hello Guys,

I am looking at getting a Husky 3120xp and will be running a 50" or 52" bar on it. My current setup is a 395 xp and 36" and 42" bar in 3/8.

Is it worth staying with 3/8's chain to be able to run those bars on the 3120 or should switch to 404?

Thanks

+1 for .404
Easier to sharpen (my opinion anyway)
More durable agains foreign objects.
Feels Way more stable in milling cut... less chatter.

One drawback on long bars is tightening chain up.
Fortunately the 3120 has a strong more direct chain tensioner being front mounted.( I mill with 3120).
I’ve broken those side tensioners pawls on stihls.... too wimpy for long chains.
For 42”+, OrderIng a bar with a big curved belly (vs flat) will help keep the chain in the rails.

 

[Brent Nowell]

I find putting chain on the husky a real pain myself. The rim has alot of side to side travel and is quite difficult to get chain to line up with it and the top/bottom of the bar.. off topic but just had to mention.
Did not know that .404 wanders less than 3/8. I do know however the flatter the cut the better. Even 1/8 change in height on a slab is a real doozy to plain out...

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

+1 for .404
Easier to sharpen (my opinion anyway)
More durable agains foreign objects.
Feels Way more stable in milling cut... less chatter.

One drawback on long bars is tightening chain up.
Fortunately the 3120 has a strong more direct chain tensioner being front mounted.( I mill with 3120).
I’ve broken those side tensioners pawls on stihls.... too wimpy for long chains.
For 42”+, OrderIng a bar with a big curved belly (vs flat) will help keep the chain in the rails.

Andy, I am new and not giving you a hard time like Brand of saw fan boy or anything. But this tensioner pawl Stihl type you speak of, do you know if the old 051 075 saws have this type tensioner too, or were they more similar to the current Husky style? I actually have some large Stihl, Husky, Oregon, etc Bars in 404, also a 36 and 42 in the .375 for my 660. Working my way up to milling some small logs, under 20 inch diameter with my 660 while I rebuild my 075 for the larger 24-30+ inch Maple logs I have to use my new Alaska Mill on.

 

[andy]

Andy, I am new and not giving you a hard time like Brand of saw fan boy or anything. But this tensioner pawl Stihl type you speak of, do you know if the old 051 075 saws have this type tensioner too, or were they more similar to the current Husky style? I actually have some large Stihl, Husky, Oregon, etc Bars in 404, also a 36 and 42 in the .375 for my 660. Working my way up to milling some small logs, under 20 inch diameter with my 660 while I rebuild my 075 for the larger 24-30+ inch Maple logs I have to use my new Alaska Mill on.

Yeah I'm not a fanboy either... have both Stihl and Husky saws (and one Echo).

I'm not familiar with the -051/075- series saws so can't answer the first question.
The saw in particular I had issue with chain tensioner was an MS661.... so probably very similar if not identical to your Ms660.
It's not that it does not work.. it's just "weak kneed" compared to the Big Husky front tenioner in the 3120.
I'm calling the little screw/stud that fits in the bar and runs on the tensioner worm a "Pawl" (may or may not be correct term).
That part broke one time on each of two different 661's when tensioned a longer chain/bar... it just is not very robust.
I would not say worthless just kinda weak.

 

[Assembler]

Yeah I'm not a fanboy either... have both Stihl and Husky saws (and one Echo).

I'm not familiar with the -051/075- series saws so can't answer the first question.
The saw in particular I had issue with chain tensioner was an MS661.... so probably very similar if not identical to your Ms660.
It's not that it does not work.. it's just "weak kneed" compared to the Big Husky front tenioner in the 3120.
I'm calling the little screw/stud that fits in the bar and runs on the tensioner worm a "Pawl" (may or may not be correct term).
That part broke one time on each of two different 661's when tensioned a longer chain/bar... it just is not very robust.
I would not say worthless just kinda weak.

It appears that on some saws one may be better off with a double ended bar and try to use a tensioner at the outboard end of the bar. Just saying. Other saws that are more robust there should be no problem.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

It appears that on some saws one may be better off with a double ended bar and try to use a tensioner at the outboard end of the bar. Just saying. Other saws that are more robust there should be no problem.

Thanks. I will be on the lookout for this on my 660. I also remembered the design of the 051 and 075 type saws are like the Huskys are where it comes to Sprocket/clutch design vs the newer Stihls. In other words, outboard vs inboard. So, I believe the adjusters are different based on the era of Stihl model we are talking about.

 

[Assembler]

Thanks. I will be on the lookout for this on my 660. I also remembered the design of the 051 and 075 type saws are like the Huskys are where it comes to Sprocket/clutch design vs the newer Stihls. In other words, outboard vs inboard. So, I believe the adjusters are different based on the era of Stihl model we are talking about.

Thanks I know someone who has a 660 or 661 and did not know this. At least adjusting at the outboard side can be easier in general with more robust parts.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Thanks I know someone who has a 660 or 661 and did not know this. At least adjusting at the outboard side can be easier in general with more robust parts.

Assembler, The 051, 075, 076 type tensioner looks like this.


While I believe the 660 661 etc type looks like this

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

 

[andy]

Assembler, The 051, 075, 076 type tensioner looks like this.
View attachment 834022

While I believe the 660 661 etc type looks like this

View attachment 834023
View attachment 834025

It’s funny how topics drift but anyway... here we are.
Here is a pic of the the part that has failed and a new spare one.

 

[Assembler]

It’s funny how topics drift but anyway... here we are.
Here is a pic of the the part that has failed and a new spare one.

View attachment 834031

Did not mean to drift the topic the point is that no two saws or even different models of the same make saws have the older stile of chain adjuster. What I'm referring to by outboard is on the outside of a double ended chain bar. How strong the parts are made can make a lot of difference in the long run that is for sure.

 

[andy]

Did not mean to drift the topic the point is that no two saws or even different models of the same make saws have the older stile of chain adjuster. What I'm referring to by outboard is on the outside of a double ended chain bar. How strong the parts are made can make a lot of difference in the long run that is for sure.

All good... it’s how we share stuff we experience.

I wonder if an outboard tensioner could put too much pressure on crank/seals.
Suppose it’s up to the user to get that right.

I don’t have any experience with that type of bar (Double ender).
With that style your pulling the chain against the crank/sprocket as opposed to... pushing away from the sprocket with built in tensioner ... suppose the net result is the same.

 

[Assembler]

All good... it’s how we share stuff we experience.

I wonder if an outboard tensioner could put too much pressure on crank/seals.
Suppose it’s up to the user to get that right.

I don’t have any experience with that type of bar (Double ender).
With that style your pulling the chain against the crank/sprocket as opposed to... pushing away from the sprocket with built in tensioner ... suppose the net result is the same.

Yes not many will think about how much tension or pressure is being put upon the sprocket, crank bearing and seal. The double ender bar may put a little more tension on the roller nose of the bar. Don't forget to do more vacuum testing of the crank seal from time to time.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Did not mean to drift the topic the point is that no two saws or even different models of the same make saws have the older stile of chain adjuster. What I'm referring to by outboard is on the outside of a double ended chain bar. How strong the parts are made can make a lot of difference in the long run that is for sure.

I didn't really see any drifting off topic as to me the members here all use various saws for milling, and these saws have different style parts to get the same thing done. In my case, I have an MS660 like I said, that I bought primarily to do CSM milling with until I get my larger Stihl 1111 Series saws such as my 051 and 075. Since it was mentioned that the tensioner type on the MS660, 661 type saw gave at least one member failures of his component, I felt it was relevant to anyone with these saws to visually see the makeup of their tensioner vs the ones in the Husky 3120 or Stihl 051, 075 type.

In addition, I doubt too many guys will be running a double ended setup on a 36-42 inch CSMill which I can see using .375 or .404 chain on, But with the heavier 404 in long bars like 48-60 inchers, it is good to know some tensioners may cause folks troubles, while the other doesn't. Plus while using the longer 48-60+ inch bars, then it does seem folks have to take into consideration all the factors mentioned above where it comes to .375, 404, double ended or single ...