• Please be aware that we have recently gotten a wave of users that, when researched, are found to be from Nigeria. They are trying to sell products and asking to be paid through Zelle or Venmo leaving users with no recourse if they don't ship the product. If you suspect this activity please contact admin and we will research their information to verify their location.

ArboristSite.com Sponsors
Peak Industries


No Heat For 13 Hours

Outriggers

Outriggers

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Pittstown N.J.
I'm a wack job, I have no electric bill. I have a 8160 watt grid tie (no batteries)photovoltaic system on my barn, (see avatar) powers my whole house. Hot water, A/C everything. It makes about $2K a year in electric and I got $7K last year in energy credits. The system cost was $65K but the state gave me $35k of it. If the power goes out the system shuts down. I have a 20 kw diesel generator in the same barn that can be run as prime power 24/7. You can't even hear it run from the house. As I type this, the sun is making 3.5 kw of 240vac. Doug
 
Dalmatian90

Dalmatian90

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Northeastern Connecticut
I'm a wack job, I have no electric bill.
Nope, instead the rest of us get to pay higher electric bills to fund the subsidies for such wasteful, inefficient methods of generating power that they can't stand on their own economic feet.

Let me guess, in addition to the $35,000 in cash, you get to sell the electricity back into the grid at retail rates, not wholesale?

Turns the whole basis of the economy -- buy low, add value, sell high on it's head by forcing utilities to buy lower quality power at high prices.

Thank you liberalism! You saved us again!
 
Scrapiron

Scrapiron

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
142
Location
Creedmoor, NC
Well, with 2.4 kw you can't do much...the best you could hope for would be to connect cords/recps. into the furnace ckts. with disconnects that disable the neutral as well as the hot, but you MUST NOT DO ANYTHING that would cause a backfeed of power to the power line coming into your house.
I certainly don't want to backfeed power to the line.

We have a furnace fan both up and downstairs- what's the best way to connect in? I would have thought via the panel.

I'd think 2.4kw would be enough for:
two Taco 1/8 HP pumps (115 volts @ 1.76 amps = 202.4 watts) or 404.8 for both,
a draft fan (115 volts @ .75 amps = 86.25 watts
and two furnace fans (I'll check but I think these are 1/4 HP fans)
plus in a pinch the fridge (700 watts)?

I realize there is "start-up" surge for each, but the main point of the generator is to keep the water moving.

And yes, I should have gone bigger. :)
 
Last edited:
Outriggers

Outriggers

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Pittstown N.J.
This deal is available to anybody and alot of people and businesses took advantage of it. I'm usually on the paying side of the state. My property tax on this farm is $10k+ a year. So when they offer money even if I have to add to it, that's ok with me. I did sell just a few kwh back to the utility, they paid me .0409 cents per kwh, they charged my neighbors .17189 per kwh. The utility made 4x what they paid me. Quality?? The quality is constantly monitored believe me its good. Liberal ,There's a Cigarette boat in that barn. LOL
 
beerman6

beerman6

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
2,014
Location
BANCROFT,MI
Both my OWB and propane furnace are on the same circuit,I put a 20 amp female twist lock on the power from the panel and a male to the common j-box.I made a cord for the gennie to hook to this.Very simple and the heat is all we really "need".

If we lose power in the summer,some extension cords to the fridge and the more important BEER fridge works well enough for me.
 
mtfallsmikey

mtfallsmikey

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
3,598
Location
Mt. Falls Va.
I certainly don't want to backfeed power to the line.

We have a furnace fan both up and downstairs- what's the best way to connect in? I would have thought via the panel.

I'd think 2.4kw would be enough for:
two Taco 1/8 HP pumps (115 volts @ 1.76 amps = 202.4 watts) or 404.8 for both,
a draft fan (115 volts @ .75 volts = 86.25 watts
and two furnace fans (I'll check but I think these are 1/4 HP fans)
plus in a pinch the fridge (700 watts)?

I realize there is "start-up" surge for each, but the main point of the generator is to keep the water moving.

And yes, I should have gone bigger. :)
Well, I would possibly look into some type of Molex type power connector, or the recessed male plug setup. Also, you could put a standard in-line cord plug into the fan leads, unplug during a power outage, plug into the female end of an extension cord....no warranties, guarantees expressed or implied, not liable for accidents.
 
zh farms

zh farms

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
33
Location
Illinois
WV, do you have a tractor? If so, look into a PTO generator. I have a 24KW(I know overkill, but it was cheap) & can hook it up in a matter of min on the 3pt hitch. I just didn't want another engine to maintain & my diesel tractor burns a little over a gallon an hr at 2K rpm.

RD
I do the same thing, it runs everything in my house except our well-pump, which is 3-phase. In the summer, I can live without AC. In the winter it runs my OWB just fine, along with lights, etc. We have a hand pump in the backyard, so I can draw water there when we need it. The generator plugs into a aux. panel out on a power pole and feeds back into the house so any tractor noise is down in the driveway, not next to the house.

zh
 
WVwoodsman

WVwoodsman

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
1,039
Location
WV
Thanks for all the replies. I looked at a 8500 watt start up, 7000 continueous generator at Sam's club for $999.00. I think this is more affordable than a whole house generator. As for getting the power to my main panel I see there are a few different ways. The easiest being backfed through a 220/240 volt outlet with the main panel breaker turned off. I think that I would rather utilize a tranfer switch and probably opt for a licensed electrician to install.
 
RacerX

RacerX

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,934
Location
Northeastern, NJ
The easiest being backfed through a 220/240 volt outlet with the main panel breaker turned off. I think that I would rather utilize a transfer switch and probably opt for a licensed electrician to install.
That's the best advice you can follow. Although many of the things that were posted in this thread will work some are potentially deadly and violate various electrical codes. Backfeeding a receptacle with a male ended cord from a generator is one of them.
 
Cowboy Billy

Cowboy Billy

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
368
Location
Britton MI
One option you may consider is some of the battery backup systems that are being used by people who are trying to live off the grid. Instead of charging them with solar and wind power, you'll charge them with the grid or generator. This will let you run a smaller generator at a higher duty cycle and still have the power to start motors.
fuel is an issue with any generator that is why I recommend dual or tri fuel. atleast with a diesel generator, you can get a 100 gallon tank to haul to get fuel instead of filling a 5 gallon jerry can every day.
The bigger generator you have the more fuel you are going to use per hour even if it is not putting out all its rated power. We have off grid property in Michigan's UP. We were using a 20hp diesel engine spinning a 12,000 watt generator head. Since we did not need its full rated power we belted it down so the engine runs about 1000 rpm instead of the 2200 rpm of its supposed to run at. We were at the point we were burning 4-6 gallons a diesel in 24 hrs. Last spring we got a 5000 watt power inverter and a used forklift battery. Now we can run off of the battery for 2-3 days the fire up the generator for 4-5 hrs and charge the battery back up. The inverter was $465 and the used battery was $750 but we use it a lot so it is worth it to us. Plus we do not have to listen to the generator running.

Billy
 
gwiley

gwiley

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
1,240
Location
Goochland, Va
A forklift battery is a good choice, based on the research I have been doing to convert us to off-grid I find that another one is a set of golf cart batteries. These are designed for precisely that kind of use, are easy to get in any metropolitan area (look for golf cart sales) and are comparatively cheap for the AmpHours.

As far as backfeeding - you really DO need to be worried about it, but the solution is fairly easy, just throw the main breaker(s). The consequences of not keeping your generator off the mains are significant.
 
Mike Van

Mike Van

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
2,161
Location
Kent Ct. USA
If you are really worried about backfeeding the power grid cut the little tab on your service meter box and pull the meter. You are going to have some explaining to do but in a time of crisis.....do it!
Hard to believe you'd advise someone to do this?
 
dave_dj1

dave_dj1

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
1,965
Location
ny state
we have had this discussion about backfeeding, i do mine from a 13.5 kw genset in my garage through my 220 welding outlet , my main panel is right there too, so i throw the main. HOWEVER, think about this: if the people working on the grid during an outage are working properly they should never be in danger, that being said, think about this also, if you did backfeed the neighborhood, how long do you think your puny little 10k gen set would hold up? It would most likely kill it almost instantly.

"I do not advise using your generator to backfeed your house"
 
RacerX

RacerX

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,934
Location
Northeastern, NJ
The reason that generators use mechanical interlocks and transfer switches is because people cannot be relied upon (and shouldn't be) to simple shut off the main when the system is backfed from a generator. Those practices are dangerous, if they weren't there wouldn't be codes and standards that prohibit people from doing it. OK I'll get off of the soap box now. :angrysoapbox:
 
Scootermsp

Scootermsp

ArboristSite Guru
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
756
Location
Taxachusetts :(
for real!!

if you pull that meter, the company could assume you bypassed it and will have no idea how much you F'ed them, and you will get the full force of the law up your ass....

ridiculous idea.
Last December in our ice storm it was very common here for meters to be pulled either to prevent backfeed or hook-up generators. The power company did not bat an eye, they understood this was a CRISIS.
 
davec

davec

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
364
Location
Western Wisc
The reason that generators use mechanical interlocks and transfer switches is because people cannot be relied upon (and shouldn't be) to simple shut off the main when the system is backfed from a generator. Those practices are dangerous, if they weren't there wouldn't be codes and standards that prohibit people from doing it. OK I'll get off of the soap box now. :angrysoapbox:
+1. And WVWoodsman: No electrician would (should) hook up the gen set the way you describe. To be legal they would have to install a cutover switch. There's a very good reason for that, per above.

-Dave
 
Mike Van

Mike Van

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
2,161
Location
Kent Ct. USA
we have had this discussion about backfeeding, i do mine from a 13.5 kw genset in my garage through my 220 welding outlet , my main panel is right there too, so i throw the main. HOWEVER, think about this: if the people working on the grid during an outage are working properly they should never be in danger, that being said, think about this also, if you did backfeed the neighborhood, how long do you think your puny little 10k gen set would hold up? It would most likely kill it almost instantly.

"I do not advise using your generator to backfeed your house"
It's not just the rubber gloved power co. workers you're protecting, it's the tree guys, the neighbor that tied the wire up in a tree so he could get his car out, the kids riding their bikes & skateboards over the wire, the mom that stepped on it cause it was dark & she didn't see it. I could go on, but you get the picture?
 
Top