Noob here. Couple of questions

[TheLaundryMan]

Howdy folks. I read nearly every post in this forum trying to learn as much as possible.
Firstly thanks for all the knowledge! That being said I have some questions.
Everyone here seems against using a dremel to sharpen chains. Is it really that terrible? I feel like a dremel vs hand file is the same thing if you’re gentle with the dremel but I am aware I don’t know all things-hand filing just isn’t my idea of fun
I have a granburg Alaskan and after using it a few times and the tips in here gonna bolt the bar straight to it instead of using clamps. Any tips for drilling through the bar?
I don’t want to kill trees unless there’s a good reason to so I’m mainly going to be milling dead oaks. (Live in central Texas. It’s about all we got that gets to defend diameter). Picture coming but chain dulled FAST without hitting anything. Does that seem normal? Stihl full chisel. first picture. Started milling from far end. Pretty smooth halfway through then really started fighting it. Should have pulled out and sharpened mid cut but what can I say...I don’t like pulling out
Last question let some teeth hit dirt, I know shame me, but it happened. Do I need to grind back until I get back to a full straight edge? Makes sense I need to. Just wanted to ask before discarding a significant fraction of the tooth.
Thanks all and happy milling

 

[TheLaundryMan]

Accidentally attached photo of the bar where the details are. Was just showing a friend where he could find his chain specs with that pic

 

[sb47]

Welcome: I found that the stones wear down quickly and don't hold a true size like a file does. As for getting dull fast it depends on where the tree lived. Trees near dirt roads get dust embedded in the bark then are incorporated into the wood making it more abrasive then trees that grow where there isn't much dust in the air. Pecan bark is very abrasive no mater where they grow. Also cutting near forks and knots can dull a chain in short order. Then there is cutting cross grain or with the grain makes a big difference on how long it will stay sharp.
Now I prefer to sharpen with a file but I do use a die grinder on the rakers. I have yet to find a flat file that will last very long on the rakers so I use a die grinder for that. Dry dirt seems to dull a chain faster then hitting wet dirt. If I hit dirt I usually stop and resharpen before it gets very dull. It's much faster and easier to sharpen often then wait till it gets real dull. Always try to inspect the wood for metal before you hit it with a saw. Nothing worse then wrecking a chain hitting metal hidden in the wood. If you see black spots in the wood, there is metal somewhere near where the black spots are. Yard trees are the worst for finding metal embedded in the wood. Nails, I bolts, light fixtures, barbed wire, close line hooks, car parts left in crotches that grow over are just some of the things I have found in yard trees.

 

[J D]

I agree with removing the bark if possible. If that chain is just for milling I'd file it back to ~10° & that sould remove most of your damage. That chain looks like semi/chamfer chisel to me, it should keep an edge better than full chisel & be a little more forgiving when getting dull. If you sharpen with any form of grinder be careful not to heat the tooth too much as that will ruin the hardening causing it to dull quicker. Your chain will also appear to dull very quickly if it's not properly sharp to begin with. Consistently is key when sharpening for milling. You also want slightly more hook & the rakers a touch lower than you would set them for x-cutting (this helps with self feeding). Keep us posted with your progress

 

[TheLaundryMan]

Since that picture got to the point in the forum where someone (probably BobL the milling angel) said to not just flatten the tops of the rakers but to keep the hook shape going. Haven’t gotten around to that yet. I do know not to let the teeth heat up with any type of grinder. I’ll post a picture of chain next time I sharpen it so y’all can see it fresh. I can just actually not be lazy and hand files.
Any tips for debarking oak? That tree was in a city lot between two very busy paved streets but it probably still got tons of dust in the bark from road traffic

 

[TheLaundryMan]

And I do have enough chains to make one for milling only. Was thinking might do that with this one now to get those damaged teeth corrected

 

[BobL]

Lets see a close up side-on photo of a few chain links and I will have a go and a chain diagnosis for you.

Dremel are fine for sharpening as long as you can control and adjust the height above the cutter tip, so to do that you'll need a Dremel Jog like this


However, the stone grinders will eventually wear - better are the diamond tips as they will stay the same size
However I don't think these grinding tips come in anywhere near the range of sizes that files come in.
I use a the simple Oregon file guide like this - they come in different sizes from 5/32 to 5/16" and by using different size guides with different file sizes, small controllable changes can be made to the top plate filing angle (hook) - the Dremel sharpening kit doesn't have different guides as far as I know.
I usually use a 13/64" file in a 7/32" holder to reduce the hook or the same file in a 3/16" holder to increase the hook.



The most common cause of fine dust from a freshly sharpened chain is not lowering the rakers sufficiently to take reduced cutter length into consideration.
All raker guides are basically too wussy for my liking especially as the chains get older and the cutters get shorter.
A general guide is the raker depths should be about 1/10th of the gullet width.
New chains typically have a gullet width of 0.25" so the raker depth should be about 0.025".
However once the gullet reaches 0.5" the raker should be 0.05" - seems like a lot but teh same geometry as a new cutter.
Most folks that try this are blown away by how it resurrects old chains.
BTW the 1/10 of gullet width is just a number, Some folks in selfhood use 1/9 or even 1/8 and 1/7.
The downside is greater vine and B&C wear but provided an Aux oiler is used this is not as bad.

 

[Demonical]

^ Wut he said...

 

[BobL]

Sorry about the typos etc
Jog = jig
Vine = Vibe
"seems like a lot but teh same geometry as a new cutter" = "seems like a lot but maintains the same geometry as a new cutter"

 

[TheLaundryMan]

Haha I got everything except I couldn’t figure out what the vine was. I honestly didn’t even register jog as a typo. Just though eh he’s from Australia they got some of their own words.
Those pictures of that chain were from like two weeks ago. Originally I thought there were maybe 10 buggered teeth cut it was really about half of them so I gave up and took it in to get professionally ground. Gonna be a few weeks before I get another chance to use a saw. I’ll come back here after I dull a chain and sharpen it to see what ya got for me.
Bob, I guess I should really get a digital angle finder because there seems to be no other easy way to measure the tooth to raker

thanks again y’all

 

[J D]

Most smart phones have a digital angle finder built into them, you may just need to download an app to make use of it. It can be easier to measure the angle of an appropriately placed straight edge with the phone rather than trying to measure the cutters directly. Failing that a vernier, some feeler gauges & a straight edge work equally well. The process is a fair bit easier if all your cutters are the same length

 

[BobL]

Haha I got everything except I couldn’t figure out what the vine was. I honestly didn’t even register jog as a typo. Just though eh he’s from Australia they got some of their own words.

We do have few of our own words but having lived in the US for a couple of years I have a fair idea of what words work and what don't.

Those pictures of that chain were from like two weeks ago. Originally I thought there were maybe 10 buggered teeth cut it was really about half of them so I gave up and took it in to get professionally ground. Gonna be a few weeks before I get another chance to use a saw. I’ll come back here after I dull a chain and sharpen it to see what ya got for me.
Bob, I guess I should really get a digital angle finder because there seems to be no other easy way to measure the tooth to raker

As far as pics go, I wasn't referring to blunted teeth but rather raker depths. As JD says the death can be measured with a straight edge across the tops of cutters and a set of feeler gauges to measure the depth.

Re; Same length cutters. If you use the raker setting method I describe and file to remove glint (edge wear), then having the same length cutters is less important.(eg I haven't bothered to check cutter lengths on any of my chains for the last 10 years) as the longer taller cutter edges will wear more in the cut and exhibit more "glint" and hence be filed back more. This works if the slightly different cutter lengths are sort of randomly distributed on a chain. Problems can arise if longer cutters mostly end up on one side of the chain (eg more on left hand sided than right hand sized cutters). I just eyeball cutter lengths and jive teh longer ones a couple of more swipes.

 

[TheLaundryMan]

Ok got the chain back, fresh ground to 10 degrees. Then I took a lot off the rakers to make approximately a 8 degree angle from tooth to raker. Didn’t measure every single one. Measured a few and then went off eyeball from there.
JD-I had no idea my phone had an angle finder built into it.
lemme know what y’all think about it

 

[J D]

Might just be the photos but I recon they could've done better for you... On the upside, once you've filed it to the profile of your hand file it should be about spot on

 

[BobL]

Provided you power head has enough grunt that chain profile should make a lot more chips than dust. How did it cut?

 

[summery]

Lets see a close up side-on photo of a few chain links and I will have a go and a chain diagnosis for you.

Dremel are fine for sharpening as long as you can control and adjust the height above the cutter tip, so to do that you'll need a Dremel Jog like this
View attachment 897761

However, the stone grinders will eventually wear - better are the diamond tips as they will stay the same size
However I don't think these grinding tips come in anywhere near the range of sizes that files come in.
I use a the simple Oregon file guide like this - they come in different sizes from 5/32 to 5/16" and by using different size guides with different file sizes, small controllable changes can be made to the top plate filing angle (hook) - the Dremel sharpening kit doesn't have different guides as far as I know.
I usually use a 13/64" file in a 7/32" holder to reduce the hook or the same file in a 3/16" holder to increase the hook.

View attachment 897763

The most common cause of fine dust from a freshly sharpened chain is not lowering the rakers sufficiently to take reduced cutter length into consideration.
All raker guides are basically too wussy for my liking especially as the chains get older and the cutters get shorter.
A general guide is the raker depths should be about 1/10th of the gullet width.
New chains typically have a gullet width of 0.25" so the raker depth should be about 0.025".
However once the gullet reaches 0.5" the raker should be 0.05" - seems like a lot but teh same geometry as a new cutter.
Most folks that try this are blown away by how it resurrects old chains.
BTW the 1/10 of gullet width is just a number, Some folks in selfhood use 1/9 or even 1/8 and 1/7.
The downside is greater vine and B&C wear but provided an Aux oiler is used this is not as bad.

I like the idea of bringing the rakers down, but would you say the bottom of the raker glides would be enough or too much to gauge the same filing actions on all them? Thanks

 

[BobL]

I like the idea of bringing the rakers down, but would you say the bottom of the raker glides would be enough or too much to gauge the same filing actions on all them? Thanks

Not sure what you mean by "bottom of the raker glides".

 

[TheLaundryMan]

Well it cut amazingly. This was juniper though so very soft wood and only 14” on the base end. Good slope here and saw was pulling itself through. I am worried about having enough power next time I’m back in some hardwood though. Using a mtronic 661 for reference. Sure is a lot more fun milling in soft wood haha

 

[BobL]

Well it cut amazingly. This was juniper though so very soft wood and only 14” on the base end. Good slope here and saw was pulling itself through. I am worried about having enough power next time I’m back in some hardwood though. Using a mtronic 661 for reference. Sure is a lot more fun milling in soft wood haha

Muaa - HaHaHaaaa - excellente !