One-Man Firewood Business Rig. (Equipment, Fabrication, Ideas?)

[JimmyMac]

Pleased to meet y'all!

JimmyMac from NorCal here.

I've been lurking this site for a bit, gleaning a ton of useful information and drooling over y'alls equipment.
HOLY SMOKES!
I especially dig the dedicated, ingenuitive & work-ethic-rich people this site attracts.
Hope I can add to it at some point.

So.. here's my current situation & set-up.

I'm a 47 year old millwright who isn't millwrighting anymore, due to the depressed economy of our area.
My wife and I own a book store and I have a small fabrication shop attached where I build and repair stuff.

Recently, I was asked by a friend of mine to help fall, split & deliver firewood.
I did a short stint with a local logging outfit some years back & didn't realize how much I had missed the woods. And machines! And sawdust! (Is it just me, or does everyone get addicted to machines and sawdust?)

Since then, that's what I've been doing for work and it suits me right down to the ground.

I traded my 72 Chevy 1/2 ton for an MS310 & a 25ton/6H splitter to tow behind my 98 f150 XLT 2wd.
(I am painfully aware that I am at a severe disadvantage until I am able to procure a truck with a more suitable GVWR. This one is 6250# with the tow package.)

I've been delivering ponderosa pine with my current 1/2 ton, short-box with side rails. I prefer not to overload for safety and for my trucks sake but periodically I do.

So.. here's the thing.. I like to make stuff. Even if it's not as spiffy as the newest/latest and/or greatest.. I still wanna' make it.

I've been running different scenarios through the ol noggin and, for me, for now, I think I'm going to use the back of our stores large, paved & gated parking lot to sell palletized & wrapped split wood. ( We have great traffic and retail visibility)

Has anyone ever seen or entertained the idea of loading 1/4 cord pallets of wood with a monster pallet jack?
Also, is there a thread(s) where the DIY builders hang out around here?

Welp.. Thanks for the motivation!

~JimmyMac.

 

[ponyexpress976]

A local hardware store and a landscape supply house both sell this way. Fork lift it onto the customers truck. Not sure how much the plastic wrap costs...im pretty sure the pallets are just reused from other shipments.

Put you ideas up here. The guys have pretty much seen it all. And if we haven't, we'll let you know if/why/how it will or won't work.

Welcome and enjoy!

 

[cantoo]

When you are starting out and using smaller equipment (1/2 ton truck) you need to add some value to the wood you are selling. Selling bundles is a good idea but only if you have a decent market for it there and also little competition. Research swedish candles, the pine should work good for them and dead trees are usually priced right = free for the taking. If you are/were a millwright consider using your skills to make wood burning accessories like firepits, steel rod weiner roasting holders, firepit and fireplace pokers even firewood holders. Lots of stuff you can do to keep busy and some might actually make you some money. The most important advice I can give you is don't do what I did, I have $30,000 worth of firewood equipment and no time to use it. Some day though, watch out I'm gonna shine.

 

[JimmyMac]

Thanks! I appreciate the insight.

Thanks, guys.

I was actually blown-away by the response I received from the one craigslist ad I ran in my area. I can, literally, deliver $150.00 cords of pine as fast as I can get 'em down the mountain.

Unfortunately, it not very cost effective with the 1/2 ton. The area we've been cutting is only 40mi(+-) from my home and fortunately about a 4500ft elevation climb. (Empty for the climb & full on the descent back to town)

I've been bucking logs at the site and splitting and re-loading at a friends house that is roughly 10 miles from the harvest site in-between.
The inefficiency KILLS me.

Now that I have my own splitter I'll be splitting on-site. But it's still very inefficient.

So-far, my goal is to build a trailer to haul logs down to our store and process there. Or in some cases split into the trailer with sides and haul to the yard to season & palletize.

I just wish I already had a yard full of seasoned wood to pay for the stuff I need to GET a yard full of seasoned wood. Ha!

 

[woodman6666]

Hire a logging crew to harvest the logs and get them to your yard. Then you can concentrate on processing and marketing. You will never be as efficient as they are at what they do every day.

 

[JimmyMac]

I've been seriously thinking that, that might be my most cost effective rout.
But! That doesn't get me back in the woods on the daily. ..which is the reason I'm choosing this vocation.
Otherwise, I'd just be stuck with (GULP!) ..PEOPLE all day! No bueno.

 

[mountainmandan]

If you are getting two loads out each day you can make pretty good money. I agree you need to add value, for me it means my wood is stored longer so it is dryer. I will not haggle with old men, I regularly get calls where they want a deal, and I get off the phone quick, no way. I sell to expensive neighborhoods. I sold cheaper last year to get repeat customers, then raised my prices. I split smaller. I have many different advertisements, some appeal to women more, some to men. Women want a guy that is not creepy, men want to be affirmed in their manliness with guy banter. I post ads with different prices, women always answer the more expensive ones, men the cheaper ones. (there are exceptions)

If you want to get the budget market, sell cheaper, but go for the upsale with extra kindling, or a "small delivery fee". No one thing works, but each day people will be looking at one of your ads, make sure they at least call you so you can close the sale.

I hate to break it to you but selling anything is a people business.

Dan

 

[mountainmandan]

A couple of other things.

Most of the people who buy my wood are women, even if they have a husband, he wants the wife to take care of it. One of the biggest things that I noticed that increased sales is put in the ad that they could text me, lots of people can not or will not talk on the phone.

I do not mess with the email replies other than to tell them to send me a text, most never turn in to an order, and just waste time. People who email are not wanting to invest anything into getting their fuel, they are more likely to flake out on you or not respond. Or they will find joe bob who sells a pickup of green wood cheaper.

I always deliver more than they order, that makes them call back later to order more. If you make it easy for them they will call. You are not competing with other wood sellers, you are competing with the central furnace.

Dan

 

[Hddnis]

Where abouts in Nor Cal are you?



Mr. HE

 

[autoimage]

get a local tree company to drop pine off right in your parking lot ill bet you have no trouble finding that...did you say forty minutes or miles? actually either just wont work with the time and fuel. i wish i could sell pine for 150.00 i would have a yard full of it for free

 

[Gologit]

If you can roadside the trees you're cutting you might be able to get a self loader to bring them down to your place.

 

[Hddnis]

One thing I'll mention is that firewood guys often don't realize how much time and expense they have in getting the firewood to their sales area or yard one pick up load at a time. If you can establish a working relationship with a guy with a log truck it is worth paying him to haul the logs to you. Your margin might seem smaller, but expenses and time are far smaller too. Just something to keep in mind.




Mr. HE

 

[JimmyMac]

Thank you all for the insight. I really appreciate it.

I'm up in Redding, Hddns. Three hours north of Sacramento.

 

[allstihl]

i dont sell wood but since ive started giving it to senior citizens for free, i dont think ill ever have to cook again.

 

[zogger]

hey man, good luck! A new biz is exciting fun stuff.

At that distance, either what the other guys suggest, log truck and hire it, have it delivered, after you cut it I guess, or at least go for a one ton or larger rig somehow. No 1/2 ton is gonna cut it for long trying to do a lot of wood, especially mountain driving.

Bundles at your shop is a good idea. If people want a quarter cord, fine, just figure out how many bundles that is and load em up. Cost per bundle, big discount if you take a full 1/4 cord or more.

1/4 cord just now and then isn't enough to justify a forklift at a low level turn around. I really don't think you could fab up some sort of thing to do that job for the same money what even a small cheap used forklift would cost, for what they can do. Around two-three grand for an entry level older cheap small still decent shape used one around here. Maybe you could, i don't know, but I wouldn't want to chance an "oops"! with some egyptian engineering big tripod hoist thing with a customers expensive truck... and then there's SUVs, might get a lot of customers with those, even harder with a home made rig. I don't think you could improve much on a basic used forklift making your own...

Now IF you have a loading dock, different story on loading pallets, you could probably get by with just a cheap hand pumper pallet jack and a dock plate to load customers pickups with 1/4 cord palletized wood. That's very doable, and you could build the loading dock with just pressure treated and big bolts. I did one just like that for a small business before, needed delivery truck height, able to handle decent palletized incoming loads with a pallet jack. Basically a backyard patio, just used larger dimensional lumber and beams, etc, all PT.

 

[Patrick62]

Overload is the normal

1 full cord of dry pine is around 3K pounds. An AMERICAN 1/2 ton pickup can handle that, but only for awhile. You learn to carry a spare axle shaft with bearing already installed and do a roadside swap...:msp_scared: 3/4 ton version will handle that for a long long time with reasonable care driving it. I use a 1 ton for one cord, and a 2 ton for two cords. Both are dump trucks.

Blocking in the woods is about normal. You gotta do what you can. If you had the equipment to move logs then it can be a touch more efficient. You still gotta block them someday tho. You learn to work as efficiently as possible.

This is blood money. You earn every buck. Watch your expenses. Don't rush out and buy more equipment unless you have to. Deliver a full cord. In fact stack one up, add a few percent and toss it into the truck so that you know what it looks like (I did).

Home - Organic Firewood

 

[stihlrookie]

I am in a similar situation, using a 2wd toyota for my wood runner, not highly efficient or profitable for me. I do place ads on CL and they are geared towards different users. I advertise, for example, single loads of premium fireplace wood for ambience, 1/3 cord is a load for me. This particular ad pulls in the ladies and the high falutin customers. This is my best money maker for sure, it comes out to $250 per cord or better. I also advertise full cords of unsplit rounds, pulls in the manly men that want to prove they can provide for the family by splitting or they have a couple teenage sons that need a workout for football. This is pretty profitable for me as well since I have less time involved with processing. My regular repeat customers are generally just keeping me going, covering expenses with small profit, they want 2-3 cords split and delivered. I charge for delivery beyond 5 miles from my house, I am making 3 trips per cord remember. A cheap tarp and a pair of gloves can be had for less than $10, throw that in your ad and charge an extra $25, you will be amazed how impressed people are by that.

Bottom line, you need to know the customers needs and be able to accomodate. Communication is key, use email, text, phone, write a letter, whatever it takes to make the customer comfortable. A trailer for hauling would be your least expensive route to take as far as increasing haul capacity and increasing profits, decrease time on the road. Once on site making your deliveries you need to sell yourself, get those repeat customers, maybe offer chimney sweeping service or whatever you can do. I personally enjoy the outdoors and also have a small landscaping business and can get a couple jobs doing that while on wood deliveries. Get a couple ads going on CL and market towards different client bases as I said earlier. Don't be beligerent, I don't care who the customer is, sweet talking will get you farther, repeat business and frequently I get referals for more work. Good luck and enjoy that sawdust, I know I do.

 

[Como]

I have mostly pine and it is very very dry, 1/2 a cord for my 1/2 ton, though I know someone who gets nearer a cord in his with higher sides and has done for many years.

The going rate around here is $150 a cord split with local delivery.

I think the first thing you need is a strong back. I do sell a bit but with the fire ban knocking out summer camping fires and such a very warm winter there is much more wood than buyers. The loggers moved down some months ago, usually we would be hit by snow bigtime by now but nothing.

I was at the Bank in Breckenridge last Friday, T Shirt weather, the Snow bums in their gear looked very odd.

I did work out the costs and came to the conclusion that you either do it small or make the jump to a commercial operation, there is no middle ground.

The weakness in your set up is the splitter, you need to be realistic in the time and wear on equipment.

I have seen it with snow plowing, people get into it because they have a truck, but do not take into account the wear and tear on the truck.

 

[stihl362]

If you have some place to set up a firewood stand, I would consider selling small bundles of wood. I just sell small stacks of wood on the road to people who prefer to light a fire once in a while. It all depends on your area though, in my area in NJ people dont really burn wood for heat that often... I get about 50 cents per piece and generally have about 20 pieces in each stack. It covers a few expenses, is somewhat steady during the winter, and it helps me buy new equipment once in a while

 

[4seasons]

As you already know, your truck is the weak point in your supply chain. 40 miles of mountain driving hauling wood is going to take a toll fast. As others have mentioned you can get a trailer to increase you load capacity, but with a 1/2 ton row rig, you won't be able to pull 3 to 4 cords out of the woods at a time to get productive. As miles go up so must the amount you haul in order to stay profitable. This also applies to the delivery side of things as you can haul several orders to one area at a time. Also when you upgrade trucks consider if you need 4wd to get in and out of the woods (and customers yards) or if the added weight capacity and fuel economy of 2wd will better serve you.

I would also look at somewhere closer to cut wood. I won't go over 10 miles from my house to cut, so at 40 miles you need to make the most out of your day and get as much as you can. Pile it up at your shop so you can process it there on days you can't get into the woods. As others have mentioned, it will be more profitable to have someone deliver logs to your shop so you can focus on adding value rather than supply chain.

Also, in order to be productive, the 25t/6hp splitter is going to be slow. Without going to high dollar processors and 8 way wedges, a SuperSplitter is a high production machine for $3k. Or you can go the build it yourself route with a bigger engines/high gpm pump hydraulic unit that many of us have built, but don't expect it to be cheap unless you can get many of the components free.

Pallet jack loading will only work if you have a loading dock. You can build one of you don't have one, but keep in mind you want low angle slopes and the ability to match different truck height or go the forklift route.

It has been said if you want to make a million dollars in the firewood business you need to start with 2 million. Good luck.