Pioneer chainsaws

[Acornhill]

Thanks Arrow
Pm sent
I doubt this saw was ran much in its life. Very little carbon deposit in exhaust. Bar plates are pristine and all clutch parts are like new. Btw are these pioneer rim sprockets an available size?
Picked up a carb kit after curling this morning. Tomorrow should see it running.

But all of that not run much is going to change with that little torque monster


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[2stroke_shaman]

If saw has enough torque , I would try 8 tooth . It might be the best , and it's a cheap test .

 

[Walter Glover]

This is fun eh fellas?!!!
Should have a Holtzfarma b&c in the post soon. 20" will be more fitting and a nice length for bucking. P28 for limbing and the P41 for the tree lol
Will try that 8 tooth rim for sure but as I remember from running my Jred670, chain speed isnt making the cut faster if it cant get down into the wood. Found it better to run the saw around 3/4 throttle which might be about the speed of these Pioneers. Might need to get better awuainted with the P51 which i bet would eat that 8 tooth like candy!
Happy in Alberta

 

[Walter Glover]

You know its bad when you start looking at the neighbors trees that might need some chainsaw work!
Even thinking i need a second woodshed. Then maybe sell campfire wood

 

[fossil]

You know its bad when you start looking at the neighbors trees that might need some chainsaw work!
Even thinking i need a second woodshed. Then maybe sell campfire wood

Walter.

Rim sprockets for the Pioneers.

Oregon PN's

3/8 Standard 7 7 tooth PN 68210

3/8 Standard 7 8 tooth PN 22273

The P41 will pull an 8 tooth no problem with a 20" bar.

I'm down to eyeing utility poles (wood only)

NOTE. Since you have picked up some 10 series MAC's, all the ones I have with rim set ups take a Small 7 Oregon rim (3/4" inch bore vs 7/8" for a Standard 7)

 

[2stroke_shaman]

Love the part sharing here. So is standard 7 older saws ?

 

[pioneerguy600]

Tailor the chain to your saw, that is what will cut more wood for you. I can drop as many or more blocks of wood when bucking hardwood with my Pioneer turning 5,500 RPM and my buddy`s saw is turning over 12,000 RPM. I file my whole chain to suit the type of wood/species and the saws power curve, keep the engine in its power range with the chain hauling wood chips.

 

[fossil]

Love the part sharing here. So is standard 7 older saws ?

I expect only Stihl on the newer saws has their own set up. The others will all likely be Std 7 which spec's the bore size of the rim and the drive splines on the sprocket drum..

10 series Mac's, 54, 58, 70 and 82 cc models small 7

A few old large Homelites Standard 6 .404. Maybe others as well.

The small, and standard sizes refer to the bore size on the rim and the number of drive splines on the sprocket, not the rim drive pockets for the chain drivers.

So ie. a standard 3/8-7 8 would be a 7/8" dia rim bore, with 7 drive splines in the rim bore and 8 drive pockets for the chain drivers if that makes sense.

I don't have one of every type of saw out there but measuring the diameter of the sprocket where the rim sits would point you in the right direction.

 

[Hoggwood]

Why rush a good thing?

7-pin will keep you in the wood longer.

Not the right forum, but I fancy the old Echos. Slower, but what's not to like about pulling a chain with conviction? I only bump up to 8's on 70 cc and up. Keep the bars short and the smiles long.

 

[Arrowhead]

Why rush a good thing?

7-pin will keep you in the wood longer.

Not the right forum, but I fancy the old Echos. Slower, but what's not to like about pulling a chain with conviction? I only bump up to 8's on 70 cc and up. Keep the bars short and the smiles long.

Agreed. I like 7 on a P41. Rims are cheap enough, find one that you like.

 

[Hoggwood]

Just posting up a reference chart from Oregon on rim/spline/pitch/tooth size. The second page is handy. Print to scale and it is easy to match spline-to-hub-to-rims. Nice list of PN's for assemblies that were (or still are) available.

I am on the lookout for a complete list of older Oregon PN's for assemblies (70's-80's) if anyone has one. It is sometimes easier (and cheaper) to look at picking up older assemblies (PN's) that have been hanging around for decades. Sometimes they are listed and folks don't know the application because they are so old.

 

[paul hill]

This is fun eh fellas?!!!
Should have a Holtzfarma b&c in the post soon. 20" will be more fitting and a nice length for bucking. P28 for limbing and the P41 for the tree lol
Will try that 8 tooth rim for sure but as I remember from running my Jred670, chain speed isnt making the cut faster if it cant get down into the wood. Found it better to run the saw around 3/4 throttle which might be about the speed of these Pioneers. Might need to get better awuainted with the P51 which i bet would eat that 8 tooth like candy!
Happy in Alberta

I've tried an 8 tooth sprocket on a 51 and didn't notice much difference in performance or a lot more chain speed. However, I cut a lot more hardwood than soft so I went back to a 7 tooth sprocket figuring I'd enjoy the torque more than a little extra chain speed. I was only running a 24 inch bar on the saw at the time so you may get different results with different bar lengths on a 41. I've only tried a 7 tooth on my 41. Great saws and I'm glad you're enjoying them.

 

[fossil]

Just posting up a reference chart from Oregon on rim/spline/pitch/tooth size. The second page is handy. Print to scale and it is easy to match spline-to-hub-to-rims. Nice list of PN's for assemblies that were (or still are) available.

I am on the lookout for a complete list of older Oregon PN's for assemblies (70's-80's) if anyone has one. It is sometimes easier (and cheaper) to look at picking up older assemblies (PN's) that have been hanging around for decades. Sometimes they are listed and folks don't know the application because they are so old.

I'm assuming you have this old sprocket reference but in case you don't....

 

[Hoggwood]

I'm assuming you have this old sprocket reference but in case you don't....

Thanks Tim.

I do have that one. I always went off of the Echo models they had listed on there as an indicator of the time period being around 1974-75 for that list? Perhaps a bit later. No 452/602/702/1001. I don't see any early P-series listed so I don't know if that is in line with that time as well.

I always figured there were another list for Oregon PN's for rim assemblies that would have come after that list. Late 70's early 80's era. I don't know how/when they went about changing rim assembly numbers.

 

[hillwilliam]

I've tried an 8 tooth sprocket on a 51 and didn't notice much difference in performance or a lot more chain speed. However, I cut a lot more hardwood than soft so I went back to a 7 tooth sprocket figuring I'd enjoy the torque more than a little extra chain speed. I was only running a 24 inch bar on the saw at the time so you may get different results with different bar lengths on a 41. I've only tried a 7 tooth on my 41. Great saws and I'm glad you're enjoying them.

Right on, Paul. I agree with the guys who say to go ahead and try an 8-pin on a P41. And I certainly agree with Pioneerguy about tailoring the chain to what you're cutting. That said, I always ran 7-pin on my ported P42, even in competitions. My ported P45s spin 7-pins for soft wood, and my ported P52 turns a 7-pin. Only my 655BP seems a tad faster with a 3/8 x 8.

 

[Walter Glover]

Chain sharpening......
As in more depth say 0.035" or more?
Up here be cutting mainly poplar andsome spruce or pine. May cut the odd birch. So how eould I sharpen to match a P41 and P51 power curve?
Walter

 

[hillwilliam]

Summer before last, my beloved P52 grenaded. I've had it since it was new, and a P51 originally. The wrist pin bearing had come apart and did enough damage that I needed to start with a different top end. My friend and member in AZ set me up with everything I needed to rebuild and re-BUILD the old girl - again, including a strong bottom end that mated beautifully with the jug in terms of squish.

It didn't seem as strong as it had in its previous iteration, and I was doubting my ability to build a Pioneer, though I've done a number of them. She got a lot of exercise last summer, though, and seemed to get stronger. My only way to gauge how it turned out its to compare it to my 655BP. I figure if I can speak of the two saws in the same sentence, I done good.





Go ahead and time them, if you want. I can't tell which is faster in that wood - they're within a few hundredths of a second. Doesn't matter anyway. This is where I apologize for bragging, but I'm mighty happy.

Yes, the bars are different. The chains are chisel filed the same, although the cutters on the 655 are shorter (faster). The 655 is spinning a 3/8 x 8 and made the same cut about a half second slower with a 3/8 x 7. (I didn't include and inter-tube video of that cut.) The P52 is spinning a 3/8 x 7, like it has for decades.

Of course, the 655 really comes into its own in bigger wood than I normally cut, but the old P52 sure holds her own!

 

[hillwilliam]

Chain sharpening......
As in more depth say 0.035" or more?
Up here be cutting mainly poplar andsome spruce or pine. May cut the odd birch. So how eould I sharpen to match a P41 and P51 power curve?
Walter

If you round file, I'd say the main thing you'd be tuning would be the depth gauges. A knowledgeable round filer may chime in with better information.

I use progressive depth gauge tools, usually an old file-o-plate. But the Husky progressive depth gauge tools are excellent, in my estimation. The slot marked 'soft' on one of those should work well, depending on just what chain you have.

I almost don't remember how to round file, having chisel filed my own chains for the last 40 yrs. My chains have a top plate angle of 5 degrees or less for spruce, to minimize the kerf and cut really fast. I'm still about the only guy who does that, as far as I know. I've found that I need considerably more top plate angle if I have to cut aspen or poplar. But that's chisel-filed chain.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Ditto on the progressive raker filing. File -o-Plates are hard to come by and when you run across em on Ebay they're 10 or 12 bux.
The Husky raker gauges are around 4 or 5 bux. Same principle.

​

 

[Walter Glover]

I have these