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Pioneer chainsaws

Discussion in 'Chainsaw Stickies' started by WesternSaw, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. Screwbolts

    Screwbolts Never to many Engines!!

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    Beavers, I will adjust air gap tomorrow and retest.

    I have small echo coils from a echo 610 saw. I will substitute one of them for the small black and retest. The echo coils came from a running engine that I use in giant scale rc airplanes. I changed the echo ignition out for a electronic battery power RCEXL unit for a weight savings and electronic timing advance.

    Thank you for the help

    Ken
     
  2. Screwbolts

    Screwbolts Never to many Engines!!

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    To everyone that offered help and suggestions, thank you!

    I have fixed my P41S, it is now a P41S/45. :) :) :)

    20200105_161627.jpg

    Beavers, thank you for the ideas on diagnosis the problem. I was spending to much time heading down a dead end road. The parts are from Unatainium so what difference does it make what failed?

    The P41S that recently found its way to me has a bad ignition period, and there is very slim chance of locating parts for a P41S, so I decided to not waste any more time going in that direction.

    I have been flying R/C airplane since 78, in 84 I started building and flying giant scale planes, and sourcing, building/modifying my own engines for those planes from old chainsaws. The first two engine were from 65cc Remington/John Deere chainsaws , both old reed valve points designed. Good solid running engines will turn 24" props with authority. Third engine was from an old 70cc 4.2 Lombard saw. And the list goes on!


    Some were around then, Klaus , a canadian, started marketing more Quadra Arrow engines. Q65, Q75 and Q100 were added to the 30:, 35cc, 40cc and 42cc line of engines. Many small saws use the 30 to 42cc engines and the larger 3 all share Pioneer/Partner chainsaw goodies. The Quadra Q65 even used a cut out of chainsaw magnesium case. The Q75 and Q100 were crank cases cast/designed for R/C use.

    Well when I pulled the recoil housing on my P41S I saw a Quadra Q65 staring at me right there in front of me, but it had a morphidite 2 piece ignition set up different than the great rc aircraft version. Unfortunately this ignition had decided to take a permanent vacation.

    Around 2000 I was given a Quadra Q75 with a bent or most likely twisted crank. I never got the correct round tuit to pull it apart and see or to fix it. Well this is a Q75 with 1 piece Phelan mag. 20200105_083505.jpg 20200105_083535.jpg
    Has anyone recognized the muffler as a Partneer? They came with the blank muffler and instructions on pipe numbers and sizes for user to install.

    This morning I compared the flywheel from my saw and this engine. The flywheels were the same, other than cut fins for rc use on the Q75. At 3:36 ESDT, my P41S ran with the 75cc cylinder, piston and great easy to find / replace Phelon 1 piece mag.
    20200105_143220.jpg

    Now have decompression.
    20200105_143545.jpg

    I am currently running the 41S carb and stock muffler. I may add a second outlet to the muffler cover.

    If I decide to replace the seals on the crank, I will at that time pull the saw completely apart and mill in another transfer opening in the mag side of the case. The Q75 cylinder has the 2 boost ports opposite the exhaust. The stock 41S case does not have the cut to feed them and I didn't want to take the time today to disassemble every thingy to clean all the chips out from the cutting the passage way would have created. Besides I wanted to dry the muffler out and hear engine noise.

    20200105_153625.jpg

    Would you just look at that decompression button.

    I can see more Quadra chainsaws in my future, OOPS, Pioneer , what was I thinking. Lol

    Laus Deo,

    For the republic,

    Ken - Screwbolts
     
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  3. ray benson

    ray benson Tree Freak

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    Looking for a P21 service manual for a member. Can he use the P26 P28 1074 small series service manual?
     
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  4. fossil

    fossil Eh?

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    They are pretty close to each other so I would think that would be considerably better than nothing.
     
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  5. pioneerguy600

    pioneerguy600 Lost in Space Staff Member

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    It`s lumped in with those saws in my manuals , same piston cylinder and stroke., page 65 in the repair manuals.
     
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  6. MrTwig2

    MrTwig2 ArboristSite Lurker

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    Hi guys, I'm the one that requested the p21 papers.
    I just took it apart now, and the coil seems to be broken. No continuity anywhere.
    Is there a different coil that is known to fit and work for the p21? I assume a new one will be hard to find.
     
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  7. pioneerguy600

    pioneerguy600 Lost in Space Staff Member

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    The coil from the same chassis size like the 970, 1072, 1073, 1074, P20,25, 26, and P28 with points, not the P28 E or the P28ES should all be the same. I have not needed to swap in a newer unit from a current saw but with some ingenuity there would likely be a coil that would work.Pioneer number 473340 is what you would be looking for.
    chainsawr has a few as well,
    https://store.chainsawr.com/search?q=Pioneer+coil
     
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  8. pioneerguy600

    pioneerguy600 Lost in Space Staff Member

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  9. Screwbolts

    Screwbolts Never to many Engines!!

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    PioneerGuy600, isn't the coil that you have a link to a CDI coil and not the coil for points? All the coils for points that I am familiar with have 2 spade termanals not the single as shown, one spade to points the other for kill switch. Like the one shown here.
    20200106_155651.jpg

    Ken/ Screwbolts
     
  10. fossil

    fossil Eh?

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    Just a suggestion.

    Try unscrewing the plug wire at the coil and see if it appears to be making good contact with the barb in the wire well. You might try nipping off 3mm or so and screwing the wire back in to see if things change. The wire itself could also be broken inside the insulation if someone has been yanking on.
     
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  11. pioneerguy600

    pioneerguy600 Lost in Space Staff Member

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    The ones in the link are for coil type on Pioneer saws.
     
  12. Beavers

    Beavers ArboristSite Operative

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    l have some here if you need one.
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. brandonstc6

    brandonstc6 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Does the pioneer 650 use standard bearings and seals? Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. MrTwig2

    MrTwig2 ArboristSite Lurker

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    Thanks Beavers, I have made a note of that. If the rest of the p21 proves salvageable, I'll be in touch.
     
  15. Beavers

    Beavers ArboristSite Operative

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    You should be able to get these seals and bearings at local bearing supply store. These are all used out of your Saw. 6203 bearing are open face or closed . The NTN is the original in your saw. You need 2. Hope this helps a little.
     

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  16. brandonstc6

    brandonstc6 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Would it be better to use sealed bearings or not?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. brandonstc6

    brandonstc6 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Thanks for the help, what about these bearings? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114029842006


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  18. ML12

    ML12 ArboristSite Guru

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    Those are shielded bearings? they'll work, I'd avoid sealed bearings (or just pop the seals out). The seals in the 600 series pioneers are standard sizes and easy to come by. My file has the seals as the following:
    Pioneer 425076---CR6541
    Pioneer 425077---CR6582

    You'd need 1 of each. The flywheel side seal can only be driven in from the inside of the crank case before the bearing gets installed.
     
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  19. 89HD

    89HD OLD SAW

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    Looking for a coil to work on Pioneer P51.
    I read on here The husky 272 will work on some pioneers.
    What's the latest news on replacing these ignitions? I have a few that need replacing.
    I tried baking and got 1 spark from each that was it, then nothing.
     
  20. Screwbolts

    Screwbolts Never to many Engines!!

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    89HD, is your coil a one piece Phelon unit like on the cylinder I used for my P41s? Above, second post on this page.

    Remember Lavoy,

    Ken
     
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