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Pioneer chainsaws

Screwbolts

Screwbolts

Never to many Engines!!
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
280
Age
65
Location
Central NY
Beavers, I will adjust air gap tomorrow and retest.

I have small echo coils from a echo 610 saw. I will substitute one of them for the small black and retest. The echo coils came from a running engine that I use in giant scale rc airplanes. I changed the echo ignition out for a electronic battery power RCEXL unit for a weight savings and electronic timing advance.

Thank you for the help

Ken
 
Screwbolts

Screwbolts

Never to many Engines!!
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
280
Age
65
Location
Central NY
To everyone that offered help and suggestions, thank you!

I have fixed my P41S, it is now a P41S/45. :) :) :)

20200105_161627.jpg

Beavers, thank you for the ideas on diagnosis the problem. I was spending to much time heading down a dead end road. The parts are from Unatainium so what difference does it make what failed?

The P41S that recently found its way to me has a bad ignition period, and there is very slim chance of locating parts for a P41S, so I decided to not waste any more time going in that direction.

I have been flying R/C airplane since 78, in 84 I started building and flying giant scale planes, and sourcing, building/modifying my own engines for those planes from old chainsaws. The first two engine were from 65cc Remington/John Deere chainsaws , both old reed valve points designed. Good solid running engines will turn 24" props with authority. Third engine was from an old 70cc 4.2 Lombard saw. And the list goes on!


Some were around then, Klaus , a canadian, started marketing more Quadra Arrow engines. Q65, Q75 and Q100 were added to the 30:, 35cc, 40cc and 42cc line of engines. Many small saws use the 30 to 42cc engines and the larger 3 all share Pioneer/Partner chainsaw goodies. The Quadra Q65 even used a cut out of chainsaw magnesium case. The Q75 and Q100 were crank cases cast/designed for R/C use.

Well when I pulled the recoil housing on my P41S I saw a Quadra Q65 staring at me right there in front of me, but it had a morphidite 2 piece ignition set up different than the great rc aircraft version. Unfortunately this ignition had decided to take a permanent vacation.

Around 2000 I was given a Quadra Q75 with a bent or most likely twisted crank. I never got the correct round tuit to pull it apart and see or to fix it. Well this is a Q75 with 1 piece Phelan mag. 20200105_083505.jpg 20200105_083535.jpg
Has anyone recognized the muffler as a Partneer? They came with the blank muffler and instructions on pipe numbers and sizes for user to install.

This morning I compared the flywheel from my saw and this engine. The flywheels were the same, other than cut fins for rc use on the Q75. At 3:36 ESDT, my P41S ran with the 75cc cylinder, piston and great easy to find / replace Phelon 1 piece mag.
20200105_143220.jpg

Now have decompression.
20200105_143545.jpg

I am currently running the 41S carb and stock muffler. I may add a second outlet to the muffler cover.

If I decide to replace the seals on the crank, I will at that time pull the saw completely apart and mill in another transfer opening in the mag side of the case. The Q75 cylinder has the 2 boost ports opposite the exhaust. The stock 41S case does not have the cut to feed them and I didn't want to take the time today to disassemble every thingy to clean all the chips out from the cutting the passage way would have created. Besides I wanted to dry the muffler out and hear engine noise.

20200105_153625.jpg

Would you just look at that decompression button.

I can see more Quadra chainsaws in my future, OOPS, Pioneer , what was I thinking. Lol

Laus Deo,

For the republic,

Ken - Screwbolts
 
MrTwig2

MrTwig2

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Jun 15, 2016
Messages
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Location
Skien
Hi guys, I'm the one that requested the p21 papers.
I just took it apart now, and the coil seems to be broken. No continuity anywhere.
Is there a different coil that is known to fit and work for the p21? I assume a new one will be hard to find.
 
pioneerguy600

pioneerguy600

Lost in Space
Staff member
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Messages
39,820
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N.S. Canada
The coil from the same chassis size like the 970, 1072, 1073, 1074, P20,25, 26, and P28 with points, not the P28 E or the P28ES should all be the same. I have not needed to swap in a newer unit from a current saw but with some ingenuity there would likely be a coil that would work.Pioneer number 473340 is what you would be looking for.
chainsawr has a few as well,
https://store.chainsawr.com/search?q=Pioneer+coil
 
Screwbolts

Screwbolts

Never to many Engines!!
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
280
Age
65
Location
Central NY
PioneerGuy600, isn't the coil that you have a link to a CDI coil and not the coil for points? All the coils for points that I am familiar with have 2 spade termanals not the single as shown, one spade to points the other for kill switch. Like the one shown here.
20200106_155651.jpg

Ken/ Screwbolts
 
fossil

fossil

Eh?
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
6,247
Location
Southern Ontario
Hi guys, I'm the one that requested the p21 papers.
I just took it apart now, and the coil seems to be broken. No continuity anywhere.
Is there a different coil that is known to fit and work for the p21? I assume a new one will be hard to find.
Just a suggestion.

Try unscrewing the plug wire at the coil and see if it appears to be making good contact with the barb in the wire well. You might try nipping off 3mm or so and screwing the wire back in to see if things change. The wire itself could also be broken inside the insulation if someone has been yanking on.
 
pioneerguy600

pioneerguy600

Lost in Space
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Messages
39,820
Location
N.S. Canada
PioneerGuy600, isn't the coil that you have a link to a CDI coil and not the coil for points? All the coils for points that I am familiar with have 2 spade termanals not the single as shown, one spade to points the other for kill switch. Like the one shown here.
View attachment 786132

Ken/ Screwbolts
The ones in the link are for coil type on Pioneer saws.
 
Beavers

Beavers

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
431
Location
Canada
Does the pioneer 650 use standard bearings and seals? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You should be able to get these seals and bearings at local bearing supply store. These are all used out of your Saw. 6203 bearing are open face or closed . The NTN is the original in your saw. You need 2. Hope this helps a little.
 

Attachments

brandonstc6

brandonstc6

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You should be able to get these seals and bearings at local bearing supply store. These are all used out of your Saw. 6203 bearing are open face or closed . The NTN is the original in your saw. You need 2. Hope this helps a little.
Would it be better to use sealed bearings or not?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
brandonstc6

brandonstc6

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ML12

ArboristSite Guru
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Vancouver, BC
Thanks for the help, what about these bearings? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114029842006


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Those are shielded bearings? they'll work, I'd avoid sealed bearings (or just pop the seals out). The seals in the 600 series pioneers are standard sizes and easy to come by. My file has the seals as the following:
Pioneer 425076---CR6541
Pioneer 425077---CR6582

You'd need 1 of each. The flywheel side seal can only be driven in from the inside of the crank case before the bearing gets installed.
 

89HD

OLD SAW
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
196
Location
Kamloops
Looking for a coil to work on Pioneer P51.
I read on here The husky 272 will work on some pioneers.
What's the latest news on replacing these ignitions? I have a few that need replacing.
I tried baking and got 1 spark from each that was it, then nothing.
 
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