Pioneer chainsaws

[pioneerguy600]

When gasoline becomes old from sitting in the tank it will melt fuel lines and any rubber components in the carb or fuel filter, the gasoline does not need to have ethanol in it to do this. There was no ethanol in gas here til very lately but I have seen hundreds on old saws with melted components from sitting around and yes it will cause paint to bubble inside the tank, its a difficult job to remove all the paint from inside a tank. The loose stuff can be removed somewhat by dropping a handfull of nuts, 1/4 ,5/16" work fairly good, shake the saw hard with some mix in with the nuts, it will knock off most all loose paint or coatings, dump out the nuts and rinse the tank thoroughly. Keep a new fuel filter on it as more paint will likely flake off over time.

 

[White_Fang]

Thanks for information and advice.
Will clean the tank thoroughly, but should I repaint fuel tank with some gasoline proof paint in the future, or it doesn't matter if it's painted or not. Also could you tell if it's possible (probably is) to use the fuel/oil lines and the filter of the same dimension from some other chainsaw brand than Pioneer and could I have a problem by using the non original part on the chainsaw? Also should I try to make new ring seals for fuel/oil caps myself or keep using old ones, because I think they are softer than they should be and sometimes there are little leaks from the fuel/oil tanks?

 

[Lou]

The suggested fuel/oil mixture recommended for my FarmSaw purchased new in late 1979 or early 1980 is/was 24:1. I ran that until the end of the year 1985±. I ran pump gas and that mixture for that entire period (I fought with a swelled fuel cap part of that time, swiss files offered some help). It never occurred to me that ethanol was causing my fuel cap to swell. 86 through 89 it was in storage (dry fuel and oil tanks) in NM, we were in Germany. 89 until mid-1990 it was still in storage, we were living on base at Ellsworth AFB in SD. Early 91 we purchased this place on 3 treed acres. I think it was this site where I heard of the ethanol problem. and never put it away with fuel in the tank (without any problem with a swelled fuel cap, and she still has the original hoses). I mistakenly ran that saw with the starter cord caught in brush and ruined the plastic starter reel. Shortly after that, I purchased my Husqvarna 359 (at the urging of members here). I don't recall when I got a replacement starter reel but I did and still used my Pioneer often (24" bar). The Husqvarna uses 50:1, The Pioneer did/does fine with that mixture (name brand and I run some gas into the 2.6 oz container to get all the oil possible). I took it to a GTG in Oregon and the Prestolite coil condensed moisture, shorted and would not fire. I baked the coil to alleviate that problem and if/when I need her my Pioneer will run again. It is currently my rescue saw and hasn't run in a few years. I checked for spark a short while back and it still does jump the gap.
Good luck resurrecting yours.
Lou
Jerry (pioneerguy600) IMO is one of the most knowledgeable Pioneer folks here. You will do well to follow his advice.

 

[White_Fang]

Well, thank you very much!
What a story, and this is one of the many stories, about quality of homemade products. From the engineering products (machines and other things) of that time we can see that they were made to last, if cared for properly, not for one, but for at least two or even more generations. Now it's on us to try to preserve these reminders of the past times, and to try to pass them with our knowledge also, when the times come, to the younger generations.
The plate on the chainsaw I'm trying to repair says: Made in Peterborough, Canada; Mod: P26; Date: '80; and the serial number; -on the pulling rope and ignition cover says al ko 51ccm (at least I think it says that), there is also Easy Arc start sign on it (probably meaning it has a decompressor in the chainsaw because I saw something that looks like it, when was cleaning fins on magnet and contacts on the coil); and on the plastic air filter (that looks like it's made of wood) cover says Pioneer. I should take some photos of it, but always forget. I will try to get some other brands fuel lines and filter, to be sure that those things isn't problem to make it start, and if it starts that would be great, but if the saw still don't start then I'll know for sure that the carburetor is the main problem. But will see when acquire the fuel lines and filter.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thanks for information and advice.
Will clean the tank thoroughly, but should I repaint fuel tank with some gasoline proof paint in the future, or it doesn't matter if it's painted or not. Also could you tell if it's possible (probably is) to use the fuel/oil lines and the filter of the same dimension from some other chainsaw brand than Pioneer and could I have a problem by using the non original part on the chainsaw? Also should I try to make new ring seals for fuel/oil caps myself or keep using old ones, because I think they are softer than they should be and sometimes there are little leaks from the fuel/oil tanks?

There is no problems with using good quality fuel lines designed for todays fuels. Stihl and or Echo fuel lines stand up really well in modern gasoline. A large fuel filter from any saw will suffice, I prefer Stihl but the others work fine. Some people use Orings for seals on the fuel caps, I cut my own from flat stock butyl rubber, not likely to find originals in good shape these days. No need to paint the inner fuel tanks, most of mine are bare magnesium, on old saws that are for the most part shelf queens I fill them with ATF, it does not degrade rubber and keeps the inside of the tank nice and clean. One of my older saws, there are 47 more of them ranging from the mid 40`s on up to the mid 80`s.

 

[89HD]

There is no problems with using good quality fuel lines designed for todays fuels. Stihl and or Echo fuel lines stand up really well in modern gasoline. A large fuel filter from any saw will suffice, I prefer Stihl but the others work fine. Some people use Orings for seals on the fuel caps, I cut my own from flat stock butyl rubber, not likely to find originals in good shape these days. No need to paint the inner fuel tanks, most of mine are bare magnesium, on old saws that are for the most part shelf queens I fill them with ATF, it does not degrade rubber and keeps the inside of the tank nice and clean. One of my older saws, there are 47 more of them ranging from the mid 40`s on up to the mid 80`s.

That's a nice looking saw!
I had to put all the parts on my IEL today to see how it looks. Not sure if I like the color but it's a good match for the faded red.
Still need a little more work, a starter nut, and a couple welds one on cover where it bolts to case and one on the muffler.
Might bring them to the coast a job for the Rocketnorton.

 

[pioneerguy600]

That's a nice looking saw!
I had to put all the parts on my IEL today to see how it looks. Not sure if I like the color but it's a good match for the faded red.
Still need a little more work, a starter nut, and a couple welds one on cover where it bolts to case and one on the muffler.
Might bring them to the coast a job for the Rocketnorton.View attachment 845710View attachment 845710View attachment 845711View attachment 845712

Your saw looks fine just the way it is, especially if you plan on running it . The few I restore never get fuel put in them again.

 

[89HD]

It probably won't see fuel again. If they are runners, in reasonable shape they just get cleaned up. If they have to be taken right apart they get new bearings, seals, gaskets, carb kits and paint. The others I've rebuilt are retired now. I'm working on getting the IEL Pioneer saws up to the 600 series. I would like to find a IEL HA now.
I have a few Pioneer 650, I might rebuild one and put it in a Alaskan mill, just to try it.

 

[White_Fang]

pioneerguy600 :
That's a tip to write down. Thanks again.
That's really amazing chainsaw, did you rebuilt it from scraps, or it was mostly well preserved when you layed down your hands on it, or it is a new old stock piece chainsaw? Around here is rare to see some older date 'saws, other than Stihl and Husqvarna, then some Alpina, a few Dolmars. But sometimes, also some Jonsered, and very rarely McCulloch, Puolan, Partner, or Pioneer (at least from when I started looking around). And 'saws I've seen, are usually on the advertisements - almost half of the 'saws on advertisement are used ones, imported from Germany, Austria or Switzerland, and the rest of the 'saws is from regular people who are selling old ones so they could buy a new ones.

89HD :
That's one great chainsaw you got there. Good luck with repairing and restoring it. I'm in the process of repairing of a Pioneer P26 with electronic switch, and I think I'm making some progress.

Pioneer P26 -cleaned exterior





Yesterday, we flushed the bubbled paint out, of the fuel tank and it was a real to be or not to be situation. There was also some wood varnish inside, probably my neighbour, being a carpenter, mistook can with it for can with fuel+oil mix, so like it would be shown later that thing mummified the fuel tank and the filter and I'm thinking that also stopped gasses from mixture from evaporating right into the carburetor, so that could have stopped its deteriorating, and the carburetor should/could be in a decent condition.

Firstly I put screw bolts, nuts, and also some nails with fuel/oil mix into the fuel tank, and then I started shaking the 'saw, and suddenly the ratling sound stopped. I looked inside and nuts ,screw bolts and nails were holding all around the walls in the tank. Oh, boy!!!
Then my father and brother jumped in, took it from there, because my arms started to becoming numb from all that shaking of the 'saw. We put some chain (regular, not the one for chainsaws) in the tank, and then they started shaking the 'saw, alternately. Good thing is that almost all of the bubbled paint got off, and all of the wood varnish got off, but though all of the screw bolts, nuts and almost all nails got off of the tank, one nail left in there. We tried to get it out, but without luck. I have counted screw bolts, nuts and nails, a few times before putting it in the tank, and afterwards, and it looks like he is MIA. I hope he will appear sooner or later without making any damage.

I cleaned the filter off of wood varnish, put some little rubber ring on its base after cleaning it of the old one, checked all the gaskets between the cylinder carburetor mount and carburetor -they were in pretty good condition so I assembled fuel line and filter, and then and carburetor. Checked again for the spark, poured some oil for chain and some fuel/oil mix (40:1) in it, and then started pulling the rope easily at first, even so it coughed a little, so I pulled it harder and it started right of, I let go of throttle, the 'saw went off. I did it a few more times and it ended same way. I suspect it's bad adjusted carburetor or I attached throttle to a wrong hole on the throttle shaft and lever. Also I have to ask how to adjust carburetor with only L screw on it, marked on the 'saws exterior? It's a Tillotson brand.

View attachment 845942View attachment 845943

 

[White_Fang]

Here is some more pictures of parts of the chainsaw Pioneer P26.

 

[White_Fang]

Some pictures of fuel cap, bubbled paint and some wood varnish inside fuel tank of the chainsaw Pioneer P26.

















And a few pictures of well preserved oil cap and oil tank.

 

[White_Fang]

Identification plate and commercial sticker of Pioneer P26.




Starting mechanism with the rope puller and the hard wire, which on pulling the rope rotates and push the compression release button, magnet flywheel with two broken fins, ignition module (coil, and other wires and contacts) and release compression button.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Identification plate and commercial sticker of Pioneer P26.

View attachment 846380View attachment 846381


Starting mechanism with the rope puller and the hard wire, which on pulling the rope rotates and push the compression release button, magnet flywheel with two broken fins, ignition module (coil, and other wires and contacts) and release compression button.



View attachment 846382View attachment 846383View attachment 846384





View attachment 846385View attachment 846395





View attachment 846397View attachment 846398

Your recoil is really messed up, the decomp lever is also bent so some parts will be required to make it operate properly again. Wouldn`t worry about the flywheel. That varnish is likely from old evaporated fuel mix, I have seen it over 1/2" thick in very vintage saws, it ruins all rubber parts, fuel cap gaskets included.

 

[svk]

Morning fellows.

Acquired this saw over the weekend. Appears to have had some “relations” with a Poulan. What models do these interchange with? Anything else I should know about this family of saws?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

A Husqvarna Model 40 / 45 is probably your closest match.

 

[fossil]

It is an EMAB consumer saw. There is a Poulan model as well and I think others. I believe their intention was to market it like the little Frontier saws.

 

[White_Fang]

pioneerguy600:
Thank you for your opinion and advice. The third picture of the recoil/ starting mechanism looks like it is -bent decompression lever. But on that picture I pulled rope so I can show that it works like it should, sorry for misunderstanding. Also I put a little grease on the round part in the middle that moves up and down moving the decompression lever, because it didn't move well without it, so it looks dirty now, again, sorry for misunderstanding.

svk:
Interesting saw you got there.


I have another problem ahead of me, on the other hand. I tried to adjust the L screw on the carburetor (only one that is adjustable, the one I think it's for idle isn't marked and is screwed all the way to the cover of the carburetor, just like in the manual I got from here).

First I turned L screw carefully to the right/clockwise until it stopped (there was 2 full turns and 3/4 turn) -the 'saw (wasn't working when I did that). Then I put it back where it was in the first place, and then I started the chainsaw to get it warm. I didn't press the throttle wide open, but I was pressing it enough to keep it running, because on idle it would shut off. After around 20 minutes of warming it or so, I started to turn the L screw for 1/8 turn to the left/counter clockwise, I think it gets richer that way (if I understood it, getting less air in the mix).
I have read some older thread where the guy that posted, said that, his 'saw is shutting off when he let go of throttle (same case here). Many people from around here told him he would need to readjust the L screw and LA/T (idle) screw on the carburetor either by himself (or to take it to professional). The best explaining was given by user called "bsnelling" (if I misspelled it, it wasn't on purpose): He said that the adjusting screw must be moved only 1/8 of a turn in left or right to not make bigger problem than it is. Because the adjusting screw is either set to rich (on the left) or to lean (on the right), and the 1/8 turn in one of the directions would make it work better, i.e. it will not shut off when in the idle state of working. When I turned the L screw to the left by 1/8 turn, and start it to see if it doesn't shut off in idle it didn't work (I kept turning till I turned it 4/8 (or 1/2 turn) turns to the left, also didn't work), then I got it back where it was and again started turning it but to the right by 1/8 turn, one at the time. The 'saw started to sound better after 4/8 turns (or 1/2 turn) to the right, so I continued to turn the L screw still by 1/8 turn at the time. When I got to the 1 full turn the 'saw sounded even better, but was still shutting off when let hold of throttle (it would not shut off right away, but it was struggling to work and then it would go off). When I got to the 1 full turn and 7/8 turns, the 'saw stopped sounding well, so I turned the L screw 1/8 turn to the left, where it sounded better, if I can say but it was still shutting off (it would idle the longest on this point). Also this position of the L screw was exactly 1 turn from fully turned in, and 1 turn and 3/4 turns from the position of the screw when I first started adjusting the L screw. Also the user "bsnelling" (if I misspelled it, it wasn't on purpose) said that when adjusting the carburetor the saw should be warmed up, and with full (or at least above 1/2 of the) tank with the fuel mix, and full oil tank (I filled it, almost full, with 1:40 oil/fuel mix and with oil), also it should be adjusted when 'saw is cutting some logs (but I haven't got bar and chain for the 'saw -still haven't found and bought one), and to be sure that the air filter was clean (I have it cleaned already in pure gasoline and then blew it with compressor to dry it out).
Then I made little break because I got really bad pain in my shoulder, because after every 1/8 turn I was starting the 'saw because it was shutting off. After a minute or two of rest, I started the 'saw again, pushed the throttle almost all the way for 2 seconds, and then let it go, but saw didn't shut off, I was like -It's alive! Not for long it's started to smoke from all around 'saw, and I shut it off myself. Also when I shut it off there was a fuel mix pouring from the vent line all around on the sprocket and me. I opened fuel tank carefully, and the fuel mix was like bubbling all around -I think that's from accumulated pressure in the fuel tank, but I'm not sure.
I tried to start it again and couldn't start it again after that. The chainsaw still have solid compression, it can't be hanged in the air by holding pulling rope, but it's close to that. I got it back where it was (the L screw) at the beginning, but still no luck with starting it. Does anyone know what could be the problem?

 

[Lou]

A little advice from someone that fried a 2 cycle lawnmower... and as I stated earlier I'm not one of the most knowledgable participants of this forum
A 2 cycle engine runs better the leaner the carb is set. It also runs hotter the leaner it is set (less oil to lubricate moving parts?), to lean will fry the engine!
Call me a quick study but the only 2 cycle carb I've ever adjusted no longer runs.
Please be careful.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I could be wrong, but I would guess that there is oil leakage from somewhere getting on the muffler or into the crankcase that is creating the smoke since filling the oil tank as suggested in the posts you've read. The fuel bubbling sounds like boiling fuel, but it doesn't seem like the saw has been running long enough at any point of your process to be getting hot enough to create that condition.

As for the idling issue itself, it sounds like you are very close to getting it resolved. I would try getting back to the 'sweet spot' you seemed to have found with the L screw and then adjust the actual idle screw (not the L mixture screw) to achieve the desired idle. As for running too lean, ..., at least at high rpm' ,that would be a fuel mix issue on a single jet carb as the H jet is fixed and non- adjustable.

 

[Beavers]

pioneerguy600:
Thank you for your opinion and advice. The third picture of the recoil/ starting mechanism looks like it is -bent decompression lever. But on that picture I pulled rope so I can show that it works like it should, sorry for misunderstanding. Also I put a little grease on the round part in the middle that moves up and down moving the decompression lever, because it didn't move well without it, so it looks dirty now, again, sorry for misunderstanding.

svk:
Interesting saw you got there.


I have another problem ahead of me, on the other hand. I tried to adjust the L screw on the carburetor (only one that is adjustable, the one I think it's for idle isn't marked and is screwed all the way to the cover of the carburetor, just like in the manual I got from here).

First I turned L screw carefully to the right/clockwise until it stopped (there was 2 full turns and 3/4 turn) -the 'saw (wasn't working when I did that). Then I put it back where it was in the first place, and then I started the chainsaw to get it warm. I didn't press the throttle wide open, but I was pressing it enough to keep it running, because on idle it would shut off. After around 20 minutes of warming it or so, I started to turn the L screw for 1/8 turn to the left/counter clockwise, I think it gets richer that way (if I understood it, getting less air in the mix).
I have read some older thread where the guy that posted, said that, his 'saw is shutting off when he let go of throttle (same case here). Many people from around here told him he would need to readjust the L screw and LA/T (idle) screw on the carburetor either by himself (or to take it to professional). The best explaining was given by user called "bsnelling" (if I misspelled it, it wasn't on purpose): He said that the adjusting screw must be moved only 1/8 of a turn in left or right to not make bigger problem than it is. Because the adjusting screw is either set to rich (on the left) or to lean (on the right), and the 1/8 turn in one of the directions would make it work better, i.e. it will not shut off when in the idle state of working. When I turned the L screw to the left by 1/8 turn, and start it to see if it doesn't shut off in idle it didn't work (I kept turning till I turned it 4/8 (or 1/2 turn) turns to the left, also didn't work), then I got it back where it was and again started turning it but to the right by 1/8 turn, one at the time. The 'saw started to sound better after 4/8 turns (or 1/2 turn) to the right, so I continued to turn the L screw still by 1/8 turn at the time. When I got to the 1 full turn the 'saw sounded even better, but was still shutting off when let hold of throttle (it would not shut off right away, but it was struggling to work and then it would go off). When I got to the 1 full turn and 7/8 turns, the 'saw stopped sounding well, so I turned the L screw 1/8 turn to the left, where it sounded better, if I can say but it was still shutting off (it would idle the longest on this point). Also this position of the L screw was exactly 1 turn from fully turned in, and 1 turn and 3/4 turns from the position of the screw when I first started adjusting the L screw. Also the user "bsnelling" (if I misspelled it, it wasn't on purpose) said that when adjusting the carburetor the saw should be warmed up, and with full (or at least above 1/2 of the) tank with the fuel mix, and full oil tank (I filled it, almost full, with 1:40 oil/fuel mix and with oil), also it should be adjusted when 'saw is cutting some logs (but I haven't got bar and chain for the 'saw -still haven't found and bought one), and to be sure that the air filter was clean (I have it cleaned already in pure gasoline and then blew it with compressor to dry it out).
Then I made little break because I got really bad pain in my shoulder, because after every 1/8 turn I was starting the 'saw because it was shutting off. After a minute or two of rest, I started the 'saw again, pushed the throttle almost all the way for 2 seconds, and then let it go, but saw didn't shut off, I was like -It's alive! Not for long it's started to smoke from all around 'saw, and I shut it off myself. Also when I shut it off there was a fuel mix pouring from the vent line all around on the sprocket and me. I opened fuel tank carefully, and the fuel mix was like bubbling all around -I think that's from accumulated pressure in the fuel tank, but I'm not sure.
I tried to start it again and couldn't start it again after that. The chainsaw still have solid compression, it can't be hanged in the air by holding pulling rope, but it's close to that. I got it back where it was (the L screw) at the beginning, but still no luck with starting it. Does anyone know what could be the problem?

The carb you have on your P26 should be Walbro WA22, all my carb low speed screws are set at (1-1/8 or 1 1/4) turn out and the idle speed screw shows 2-1/2 threads . l assuming you have install a new carburator Gasket/Diaphram kit and set the inlet lever flush with chamber floor.
is it possible excess fuel maybe coming from flooded cyl and muffler