Problems with Stihl Ultra Oil

[NORMZILLA44]

Sure the ultra is designed for older machine's. Synthetic has been around as long as many of them it is no knew concept. I was say any reputable synthetic toadya is the best thing going. It's been tested, and tried, and proven for year's. The modern oil is the outcome. Stihl has some of the best engineer's in the world under there roof's. They test the saw's, and oil constantly. That's why they are a top brand. As like anybody with car's, motorcycle's, saw's whatever. Everyone will have a preference. Today's gas had been problem's time, and time again the saw oil maker's take this into account, and constantly try, and improve. Just like making better fuel line's, and carb kit's to compensate.

 

[trappermike]

Only siezed on the exhaust side? Verdict-Lean seizure(Too many causes to list). Why your saws ran bad before could be a million unknown reasons,oh well we all make mistakes,no sense cryin' in our beer anymore,just gotta repair the saws and make sure it doesn't happen again, by checking all possible causes so it doesn't happen again of course.
I don't think I'd blame the oil because there's so many possible causes,I've seen many fatalities blamed on the mix oil,but never proven true,except(In my own opinion only) for Chevron mix oil,I have seen engine damage directly attributable to it quite a few times. There's still a lot of mystery and superstition about oils,each person adamant about their favorite,but I think these days most are pretty good,and I think in an emergency I would use,almost any kind of oil if I HAD to and get away with it briefly,even vegetable oil out of the kitchen cupboard! In fact as an oil additive for 2-strokes for breakin when I build a good motor I add a small amount of Castor oil from the drugstore,works good and smells great,kinda like something yummy cooking. I keep shutting off my saw because I think it's lunchtime??

 

[nmurph]

Oh I agree with you, I think Ultra is a revolutionary concept, but it needs to be tested more on a variety of gasoline. Example, I know people can't get 93 Octane in California, as readily as you can in Ohio. However I think Firediver125 has hit the nail on the head. Ultra isn't designed for older machines.

Your problem has nothing to do with the octane of the fuel you are using with the Ultra. I run Ultra at 50:1 mixed in 91 octane in a variety of old saws. I have not had a single problem with any of them. Stihl recommends 89 or higher, and they don't specify the type of oil. Stihl actually extends their warranty by one yr if you use Ultra exclusively.

You caused the death of your equipement. You may have had a deeper problem such as an air leak caused, but your tuning accelerated their problems. You have been offered sound input about the source of your problems; if you continue to bury your head in the sand, you will continue to toast two stroke equipment.

BTW, gas, with or without stabilizer, will last longer than one month.

 

[blsnelling]

Ultra is not your problem. Also, Shell 93 is not ethanol free around Cincy. You can't buy ethanol free pump gas around here period. I wish we could.

 

[lone wolf]

I have been running HP Ultra in all my saws for about a year or more not one seizure .This tells me the oil is working.Maybe you leaned them out too much a seizure on the exhaust side indicates a lean condition and much heat.A seizure on both sides indicates lack of lubrication.

 

[Cantdog]

Well, I'll throw in my $0.02 worth too.....First I am not a Stihl flagwaver..I own only one Stihl product which is 130 Kombi and is where I became involved with Ultra. Basically the only difference between Ultra synth and some other synth oils is the higher level of detergent additives...and as such could have a detrimental effect if use in an older heavily carboned up motor by loosening large chunks of carbon and this could be accelerated by leaned tuning and higher rpm. Other than that.... older schmolder....I don't care how old you motor design may be ultra will not harm it by itself. I have been using ultra with reg (89) pump gas in every saw in my sig with no ill effects. All of these saws have either been completely rebuilt or at least all apart and cleaned internally so they have started off clean inside and ultra keeps then that way. The 630 Jonsered I ported, new piston etc. ran the crap out of it felling and fitting to stove length, 15 full cord of 20" maple and ash. Now thats not a lot of running but constitutes 2 yr worth of firewood for me. I tore the saw down to see what my work looked like after some hard work and was rather astounded at how clean the piston crown, combustion chamber and exhaust post was. There was hardly even any discoloration and most surfaces were as clean as when I put it together. You could barely get a smudge on your finger. Those are my findings in Swedish and American saws anyway. As others have said I believe you tuned your way to this situation or tried to tune away from an already ongoing air/vac leak. However all three motors suddenly developing air leaks at the same time is unlikely. Either way I assure you it was not the Ultra. Not trying to be harsh, just honest with you using only what you have told us of the situation. Good luck...

 

[PA Plumber]

The three motor seizures is bugging me a little.

What do you mean by "running rough?"

Have you had a chance to check the spark arrestor screens?

 

[Miles86]

Hey;

Can anyone provide a link or document the mandate that retailer gas will switch to 15%? I thought it was going to be an option, for certain model year cars, with E10 still being available.

 

[WHGStihl]

The three motor seizures is bugging me a little.

What do you mean by "running rough?"

Have you had a chance to check the spark arrestor screens?

Yeah, that's what's bugging me too. And since everyone keeps skipping the fact they were running rough BEFORE I adjusted the carbs, that bothers me even more.

The 192 would start and then die after you throttled up. Even if the saw stayed idle for 3-5 minutes.

The Mantis would start fine, run fine, and after 10 minutes it would lose power after throttling up. Never would come back. Thought it was an air leak at the carb, so replaced all lines, carb, and gaskets. Same thing.

The 036 was completely fine, then about 2 weeks ago it wouldn't top out at high speed. I used the 036 service manual, adjusted it, and checked with a tach. Ran fine until I was cutting through a 36 in. Hickory and it just died.

I bore scoped and saw all 3 were scored.

 

[PA Plumber]

Incredibly coincidental, I wonder if you didn't have three problems brewing?

 

[ratso]

I have been using the orange HP oil since it was available.I bought my 260 and the dealer gave me a pack of ultra.I picked the ultra up off the shelf and the oil had started to break down.There were little oil balls on the bottom. The ultra was on my shelf for about one year not opened silver seal in tac.

 

[Brushwacker]

Oil is not the problem. From whats been said, you adjusted all 3 carbs the wrong way, leaned it out, had lean seizures. I'd bet you had bad gas, possibly water or some other contaminant got in your can somehow or it came from the pump that way. (Anybody else having problems with gas from that station ? Still have the fuel they seized on ?, pour it in a clean, clear container and examine it for content. I don't expect you used a 1 gallon mix bottle of ultru in 2 gallons of gas or grabbed the wrong gas jug but it happens... ) Anyway, leaning it out made it run leaner and hotter hasting the seizure. If your equipment isn't running right, shut it down, until you, or a qualified mechanic, find and fix the problem, or that's what happens.
Nothing wrong with sticking with what works, but sometimes a change may upgrade things. Way out advantages and disadvantages and go for what is more beneficial to your situation.

 

[MacLaren]

What about mix that has ethanol gas in it. I realize that Stihl Ultra has an additive to combat the ethanol (if you will) and I also know about Stabil. But I too have heard that any mix with ethanol gas in it should be used with a 1 month time frame. I myself use only non ethanol gas. I ask this only because some of my friends just do not have access to non-ethanol gas.
BTW, they were the ones that told me that mix with ethanol gas regardless of stabilizers should be used within 1 month.

 

[JustinM]

End of the day, you're going to get a lot of different answers.

I think most guys are right though, you burned up your saws by adjusting the carbs too lean - and i think you've agreed this yourself - but the question you seem to still have is 'why were they running too hot' and I cant really give you an answer there without looking at the saws myself. My initial thought would be that there isnt anything wrong with the oil- but that the mix wasnt accurate. Is it possible you were running them at something other than 50:1/40:1 ? It happens - but obviously it would probably have to be pretty far out of whack to cause that much damage.

Most of us have our favorites (some like Stihl, some like husky, amsol - myself I have switched to Echo 2stroke at 40:1) but as long as you are using a quality grade oil & mixing it right, there really shouldnt be any sort of issue, no matter the brand.

As for the length of time for gas to go "bad" - everyone is sort of right. Gas turning bad has a lot of factors. First off how old it is when you get it (i know a small independent station around here that has some nasty smelling gas right from the pump!!) next, how long it sits, also the ethanol content, how you store it and finally whether you stabilize it.

Gas with any of the pro mixes in them will be stabilized (i think all of them have stabilizer in them) but obviously this just slows down the deterioration process. One thing Ive noticed is that a sealed metal can in a cool place (ie dark corner of a garage) will last a lot longer than one in the new-style plastic jerry cans.


Anyway, really sorry to hear about your saws burning up. Hopefully you only fried the pistons & the cylinders can still be saved.

 

[nmurph]

What about mix that has ethanol gas in it. I realize that Stihl Ultra has an additive to combat the ethanol (if you will) and I also know about Stabil. But I too have heard that any mix with ethanol gas in it should be used with a 1 month time frame. I myself use only non ethanol gas. I ask this only because some of my friends just do not have access to non-ethanol gas.
BTW, they were the ones that told me that mix with ethanol gas regardless of stabilizers should be used within 1 month.

Here are a couple of reads-

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-6015/BAE-1746pod.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf

 

[MacLaren]

Here are a couple of reads-

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-6015/BAE-1746pod.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf

Thanks Neil, I'll print these off and give them to the guys.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Ive ran either husky xp or stihl ultra for the last 3 years with 10% ethanol shell fuel. I cant get non ethanol gas. I mix it 50:1 and have had no problems due to gas. Its been run in makita and stihl cut off saws, old and new huskys, and several weed wackers.

Stihl oil isnt the problem here.

 

[rob066]

I'm not sure if anyone else is having this issue or not (and I'm guessing people are/should be). In one month, I have had an 036 Pro, 192T, and just cause a Mantis Tiller 50:1 all bite the big one and have scored bores. I noticed the engines were running rough, and would have to adjust the carb slightly. In the long run, something was causing the engine to run hot, and I was most likely doing is making the engine run leaner. The one thing between all 3 that I have switched is from HP Super to HP Ultra with 93 Octane gas. I know that Stihl only requires 89, however, the dealer told me when I switched that 93 is better in 2-cycles. When I questioned the dealer (and an e-mail to Stihl) they say that Ultra is the best, and should have no change other than cleaner running engines.

One thing that the dealer has said was that ethanol content in gas will be increasing from 10 to 15% by Jan 1, 2012. He recommended using ethanol free gasoline from Shell to mix with the Ultra. However, a warning he also said is that any engine made prior to 2007, with a carburetor will have issues after Jan 1.

Is anyone else in the same boat? I'm rebuilding the 036, and just bought a brand new 362 because parts for the 036 won't be in till the end of September.

My question is did three sezures come from the same gas? How do you store your gas? With improper storage Ethanol gas will absorb moisture from the air because of the alcohol. Ethanol gas is best kept in a cool dry place in a tight sealed container. The warmer the air the higher the moisture content for ethanol gas to absorb moisture from the air. Maybe the ethonol in the gas had absorbed excessive moisture from the air. Water separates oil from gas. I use nothing but HP Ultra oil in my saws never had a problem. And let me tell you I dont baby them what so ever. I am picky about how I store my gas. Maybe look at your gas storage practices! I work part time for a tree service. The individual I work for had gas in the back of his truck. We put it in a MS 460 he has. It ran like crap. I mean sputtering one moment and cranking to the moon the next. I told him to toss the gas. We put new gas in it it purred like a kitten.

 

[redoakneck]

All gas around Cincinnati has ethanol in it and the pumps are not required to label ethanol anymore. I use ultra in new and old saws, no problemo.

Country Mark in Liberty Indiana may have ethanol free gas in their 90+ pumps, was tested end of July-- puregas.org


I also have a mantis that started running bad and it was the primer bulb, had a leak that was very hard to see and it would still prime the carb!!!!


Where you at in Cincy???

 

[trappermike]

Regarding mix oils again,I was reading another thread and the comment that Eyolf made (Thread is "Black fuel showed up again"), he discovered someone is routinely using old black crankcase oil for mix oil at 20-1 in all his equipment and outboard motor too,read it if you need a good laugh!

And you guys are debating ultimate mix oils... No need to waste your money,just drain it out of your car or truck,not too clean burning apparantly though,but hell it's free- the guy's been doing it for years,with old gas to boot.